1,100 quota seats in IITs not filled this year

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by NikSha, Jun 28, 2009.

  1. NikSha

    NikSha Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    DELHI
    TOI

    Every year, lakhs of students burn the midnight oil for months to get into the hallowed Indian Institutes of Technology. But as admissions closed on Wednesday, one startling fact emerged — there weren't enough qualified candidates to fill up the reserved seats on offer for the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes, or the physically challenged.

    IIT heads told TOI that over 1,100 seats will now be transferred to the preparatory course. This course, which is like a feeder class, trains quota students for a year to equip them to qualify for the IITs. Students for the preparatory course are selected by reducing cut-offs even further.

    On the OBC (other backward classes) reservation front too, 53 seats were transferred to general category candidates, though the IITs are still only in the second year of the quotas (they are implementing 18% quota before moving to the total 27% reservation).

    The IITs, in fact, had made various concessions to ensure they could fill the SC/ST seats. They lowered entry levels for these categories and even went as low as 50% below the last general category student's marks to do justice to the quota. Even this did not help them get the required number of backward category students.



    Maybe try 20% or less? Knowing Congress and the new minister, they probably will..:blum3:
     
  2.  
  3. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,669
    Why don't these dumb politicians don't understand the fact that providing reservation without providing proper basic education will lead them nowhere. In the end all are losers.
     
  4. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,583
    Likes Received:
    24
    This is criminal wastage. Why don't they throw open these unfilled seats to the general category students?
     
  5. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    466
    While reservations maynot be the best method(and they may be doing injustice to those students that dont have reservations), reservations have been instrumental in uplifting the downtrodden communities. While ppl may scoff at them, they are still a necessity. As long as discrimination based on caste system doesnt end, reservations are the way forward.

    I personally would like the rich dalits to be exempted from reservation and poor 'upper castes' to be given some sort of reservation. Which may soon happen.
     
  6. NikSha

    NikSha Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    DELHI
    Heh, everyone knows that in India reservations aren't based on anyone being rich and poor. Also, this will never happen. Even IF they try to block out rich minorities, who's going to monitor all this? The same committees and people setup by government who can't even figure out that people are lying that they are minorities just to make use of the quota system?

    Simply put, it's too late for any reform in the system. Of all the governments, Congress will be the last one to make any changes (cmon, they thrive on minority appeasement).
     
  7. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    3,895
    Location:
    Holy Hell
    Merit has no place in India.

    Majority of the politicians will be 10th std fail too.
     
  8. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    466
    I agree broadly with the points you are making. But Dalits are not minorities, they are part of Majority community albeit they are mistreated. The best way of uplifting them is through religious gurus(and Hindutva). If religious gurus and village heads inculcate Dalits into the fold and makes castes irrelevant then we can soon have reservation based on financial positions.

    While, the prob of minorities is completely different.

    Lastly, I agree with you that Congress would be the last ones to make any change(good or bad), they are the only ones who can change. If BJP tries to change, then everyone(media, ppl, social activists, NGOs, .....etc) will fight tooth and nail to stop it. And if Congress does it, it is welcomed as a revolution. Take a look at Sibal!
     
  9. SixSigma1978

    SixSigma1978 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Greater Manchester
    I feel that DEMARCATING castes by virtue of reservation is doing more harm than good when ti comes to National Integration. In reality, India is reaching a point where castes don't matter - at least in the Urban areas. The Rural India is another beast - its been categorically ignored for the past 50 years - and had rural India reached Urban India in terms of quality of education, growth and prosperity - the natural consensus for ANY sort of uplift would be universally - economics.

    India needs DESPERATELY to uplift its poor. And it cannot identify the poor from the caste0based demarcation - with the definition of lower castes being forever transcribed as destitute and frowned upon. Even if I wanted to look beyond the caste strife during my engineering days - I couldn't - I was constantly reminded of CASTES when it came to admissions, counselling, even books from college.
    Not to mention the repeated angst of the reserved category students who used to constantly voice that its only the CREAMY layer thats taking advantage of reservations and are subduing the less fortunate SC/STs/OBCs "in their OWN caste". Why should those who have benefited from Reservations continue to enjoy its merits? They should be weeded out and let the genuine get the chance!

    Adding to that the frustration that the COUNTRY suffers when a rich SC/ST/OBC takes up a medical/engineering seat with an admission rank that can only be described as non-meritorious. A person with such low merit cannot compete in the arduous complexities of higher studies. In my case, ALL (not some, ALL) the reserved category seats in ECE/CompSci/Mechanical and electrical were wasted since none of the candidates completed their courses - did not clear any semester - and went back and bought fake degrees to prove their SUCCESS.

    Bottom Line : India loses.

    I think overall - the country will cheer if a mandate comes out that states that reservations should be tied to economic background. To answer the obvious question - how do u weed the needy from the genuine - thankfully - we now have a way! Tie it to the UID - and the fact that identities (hence the background) of the individual can be investigated will give a huge impetus in Identifying the needy from the redundants. Add to that the clause that the PERCENTAGE of reservations is directly tied to the BPL poverty rate of India as a whole!! So every ten years, as part of the census, review India's below poverty line statistics and adjust the reservation percentage accordingly! So 35% now would become 20% in ten years and 10% in 20 !! A sign of both progress and reservation helping the grassroots!!
     
  10. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    4,399
    Likes Received:
    2,770
    Location:
    Gangtok, Sikkim, India
    BAN the bloody quota system. That's the only way people will feel united as a country. Otherwise those who're not under quota will feel discriminated and that accounts for a vast majority of people. The caste system is technically banned as per my many mainstream Hindu friends who work in many Hindu-oriented NGOs. But the @#$%^ politicians continue to keep the dead body of casteism alive through artificial means to fund in their votebanks. Same goes for religious matters. This policy of special religious concessions leads to bitterness among communities especially when an enlisted minority is not a minority anymore by international and national standards as per defined in the Constitution of India.

    Politicians are to blame and people are to blame even more than politicians for " Chalta hai" attitude rather than rioting on the streets and demanding an end to this anti-National Quota system.

    Quota should be given to those who're physically or mentally challenged ONLY so that they're given equal chance.
     
  11. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,120
    Likes Received:
    1,541
    Location:
    Bangalore, India
    Nothing besets merit. There should be no quotas at all. If in 60+years, people have not been uplifted, it never ever will. Instead of providing quotas on the basis of caste & creed, GoI should focus more on helping people who are economically weak in attaining quality, higher education.
     
  12. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,490
    Likes Received:
    4,120
    God knows when this quota will benefit the real poor irrespective of the caste and not the politically and economically affluent SC/ST/OBC/Minorities?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2010
  13. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,120
    Likes Received:
    1,541
    Location:
    Bangalore, India
    /\/\/\ Even God himself can't answer that mate!
     
  14. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,333
    Likes Received:
    216
    Location:
    Gurgaon/Noida
    Yeah, even God will be confused listening to the various judgements given by our bloody politicians and babus ! :emot15:
     
  15. SixSigma1978

    SixSigma1978 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Greater Manchester
    I was wondering - how does the government break up 17 seats (thats the andhra quota for NIT Jaipur) using the 27% OBC 23 % SCST Logic?

    27% of 17 seats : Those poor admission officers!! :happy_2:
     
  16. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,248
    Likes Received:
    16,719
    Location:
    EST, USA
    I must admire you for being the beacon of equality and justice and upholding the importance of merit and efficiency. I must, however, point out, that reservation is nothing new in India. Reservation has existed in India since around 200 years before Christ was born. It's only that candidacy for reservation has switched sides.

    Seriously, when it is clearly mentioned in our different religious texts, that society should be divided into Varnas based on one's profession and that one cannot become a Brahman (or anything) simply by birth, reservation was widely practised in India, and even today, the profession of a Priest is reserved, not for those who are Brahmans (wise and knowledgeable), but for those who are born out of Brahman, even if they are class VIII dropouts; yet a Dalit who is an expert in the Vedas cannot become a priest.

    India truly missed a social reformer and a beacon of justice like you in the last 2000+ years, otherwise, during partition, Dr. Ambedkar would not have had to demand trifurcation of India into Hindu, Muslim and Dalit states and neither would the leaders of those days promised him reservation in return for keeping India united. I have no doubt whatsoever, that had it not been for reservation, Dalits would have still been marginalised. I strongly recommend you read the life of Swami Vivekananda and his opinion about caste, something that never really exists in our Sanatana Dharma.

    Just so that you know, there is a teacher of Sanskrit in Ramakrishna Mission in Belur, and he is a Muslim, and does a much better job than many of the ignorant Brahmans one gets to see around.

    Now to answer your question how to divide 17 seats between General Category (GC), Other Backward Classes (OBC), Scheduled Castes (SC) and Scheduled Tribes (ST). I will try to solve this problem using a Monte-Carlo Method:

    Say, the distribution of the proportions are represented as a set of values {w_i}, then the normalised proportion would be {w_i}/(sum w_i) = P(x_i), i.e. a probability of a seat going to any of the aforementioned category.

    Hence, if the distribution is such, for GC, OBC, SC and ST, it can be represented as a proportion as follows:

    0.505
    0.270
    0.150
    0.075


    or in a vector [0.505 .27 .15 .075], for each category respectively. Now, if there is any one seat, it has a probability of going to GC as P(GC) = 0.505, and it has a probablity of going to OBC as P(OBC) = 0.27 and so on and so forth.

    Now, create a cumulative plot from the above data, which will look like this, for GC, OBC, SC and ST in that order:

    0.505
    0.775
    0.925
    1.000

    Now, if you have n seats, generate n random (random uniform = r) numbers in n iterations:
    • If r generated is say > .0 but <= .505, the rth seat goes to GC.
    • If r generated is say > .505 but <= .775, the rth seat goes to OBC.
    • If r generated is say > .775 but <= .925, the rth seat goes to SC.
    • If r generated is say > .925 but <= 1, the rth seat goes to ST.

    Finally, you will see that you have distributed n seats without any problems.

    If you do not understand what I wrote, I'd recommend you read this book:
    Title: Sequential Monte Carlo Methods in Practice (Statistics for Engineering and Information Science)
    By: Arnaud Doucet (Editor), Nando de Freitas (Editor), Neil Gordon (Editor), A. Smith (Foreword)
    Publisher: Springer
    Link: http://www.amazon.com/Sequential-Practice-Statistics-Engineering-Information/dp/0387951466
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
    Peter likes this.
  17. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,121
    Likes Received:
    2,199
    why not have fixed number of seats for prepartory couses in iit and those which are going to be vacants should be given to general merit students.
    its high time sibal pays attention to primary education as well as "ITI".

    HE IS PAYING HIS ATTENTION TO CBSE/ AND HIGHER EDUCATION ONLY AND THAT TO ONLY IITS AND NOT NORAML COURSE. IT LOOK`S LIKE HE CONCERNED WITH WARDS OF DELHIS IAS/IPS OFFICERS CADRES ONLY

    EVERYBODY CAN`T BECOME DOCTORS/ENGINEERS.
     
  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,248
    Likes Received:
    16,719
    Location:
    EST, USA
    If you look at my earlier post #15, then you will see that there is reservation for each and every category. Thus, as you recommended, if there are seats vacant in OBC, they should be offered to GC, SC and ST students. Similarly, if there are seats vacant in GC, they should be offered to SC, ST, and OBC. In other words, if there are seats vacant in any one of the several (GC, OBC, SC and ST) categories, those seats should be offered to the other remaining categories.

    Also, I'd like our respected members to review post #15 and tell us what they think about it.
     
  19. SixSigma1978

    SixSigma1978 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Greater Manchester
    Dude you need to take a chill pill.
    my question was rhetorical. I really didnt need that cynical and sarcasm oozing uber post :D
    id rather we just do away with the quota system!! that should take care of all the probablities and the sods like me who get to arse of the stick for daring to offend the mahatmas!!
     
  20. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,248
    Likes Received:
    16,719
    Location:
    EST, USA
    I was chilling till you decided to start this rhetoric. Wasn't at all required was it? You do realise that 50.5% of all government seats and jobs are actually reserved for the so called 'upper' castes. Now, let us not divide this country any further. If we are to be united, we need to have equality of economic status, social status and educational status, and reservation is the only way to achieve this.

    Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was Hindu society corrupted in a day. It took two millenia to entrench this caste system among Hindus, hence, it'll take a lot more sacrifice on our part to get rid of it. This is a war, war against the corruption and nonsense that has crept into Hindu society, and our first enemy is our own mind.
     
  21. SixSigma1978

    SixSigma1978 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Greater Manchester
    I agree - it IS in the mindset. Unfortunately- the longer the quota system stays - the more entrenched it becomes!! And I worry that the new "CASTE INCLUSION" as part of this census is anything but a ploy to get SCIENTIFIC numbers of SC/ST/OBC's in order to surpass the 50% quota limit!!
    Its already shameful that Tamil Nadu has almost 70% reservations - to MAKE it official would be to take and axe and lop off BOTH our feet - to shoot our foot would be an understatement!!

    Isn't there another state with > 50% quota btw?
     

Share This Page