There's no meaning of keeping military relationship with such a hypocrite country like Italy and a company Finmeccanica. We better look for other options.
Which type of hypocracy Italy is showing?
Every country has right to do everything it can do to protect their citizen & army men come before citizens, army men are pride of every nation.
Regarding ongoing procurements/already delivered products, PKSG had this to say -
" Existing contracts will be adhered to. Only no new contracts will be inked. That means product-support contracts for 76/62 SRGM & RAN-40L will continue without any hindrance. But yet-to-be-placed contracts with SELEX ES for the Sea King Mk.42B & Ka-28PLs WILL NOT be signed. In other words, a whole new re-tendering exercise will begin. Similarly, the SR-SAM project with MBDA (in which Leonardo Finmeccanica has a stake) will be TERMINATED. "
Are you sure about 127mm SRGM, you remember there was only one vendor for 127/130mm SRGM when tender was released?
So, let them. Just for preventing a small delay whose gap can be fulfilled, you wanna get Italian company again.
Remember chopper scam? Such things mostly happens with this country.
Remember Bofors scam, remember coffin scam?
It's Indian we love scam not Italians, it's not Sonia Gandhi who is anti-national whole INC is anti-national otherwise Sonia Gandhi wouldn't have became president of INC. Why blame Italy when we love to do corruption & love to elect corrupt polititians?
Really? They got emotional enough to block us from MTCR but you still want Indians to behave neutral? :biggrin2:
Yes, they have something to offer but they aren't alone. There are others too.
Tell me how many company bidded for 127/130mm SRGM?
It was only Leonardo-Finmeccanica.
Who will run when we bid for ASW helicopter with ToT?
Well, I can't find any reason US will agree to ToT on everything. From Russia we don't have ToT for operating 400 Mi-17 & more than 600 helicopters.
What will you do if Leonardo-Finmeccanica acquires some stake in Airbus, yes they can do easily as they have JVs?
How many deal you will cancel, Rafale too?
We blacklisted MBDA too, how many products we operate from MBDA?
Go through some of my posts thread of DRDO and PSU Discussion and other one created and ran by myself of info on indigenization and exports.
There's a very good reason why I support him.
How much indigenization?
Without ToT & JV India can't get indigenization, when it comes to JVs & ToT Leonardo-Finmeccanica always ready, you know turkey is developing TAI-T129 something?
That may become better than LCH, at least will grab export potential.
Gone doesn't mean closing eyes.
If I ask to surrender entire arms industry to Ambanis, me and you both know what gonna happen.
Who surrendered to Ambanis?
But they have money, they can do job, Reliance has major share in our exports, I hope you didn't forgot that.
Interesting because I had read a news article that said the RAN-40L deal (and 127mm gun) deal had been cancelled with this move.
There was only one vendor for 127/130mm SRGM.
The trouble is defence is perceived to be an "easy target" and the number of vester interests and lobbies involved all vying for different objectives lead to a very toxic mess and the poltical "leaders" in India are too risk adverse and see more utility in cancelling/blacklisting rather than justifying the need for such equipment and protecting the nation's security.
It's funny how Parrikar will be lauded for "defending India's interests" with this move when he himself had conceeded not long ago that blanket blacklisting was incredibly counter-productive and only hurt the uders (Indian Mil) in the long term. This is "Saint" Anthony 2.0- took a decsion to cover his own a$$ rather than doing his god damn job!
To me it seems as though Parrikar is trying to make up for his shortfall in performance by garnering attention/accolades by these less than impressive means. When you have stellar performers such as Gadkari, Prabhu and Goyal, Parrikar is trying to "impress" by attracting the media's attention with bizzare remarks (he has made so many) and things like this. It really is a case of talking more and doing less, he is little more than hot air
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Just because Parrikar has done right in the past does not meen he is infalible, compared to the performance of other ministries MP's MoD has seriously underperformed.
Parade of idiots is full on in this thread.
The idiot abingdonboy forgets that investigation is being driven by Italian agencies and sentences have been handed out already. He wants us to believe there is no wrongdoing.
The fear is more blowups in Italy and France deals. Everybody knows how these deals were conducted except idiots on this message board.
The government cannot afford these blowups so cancelling the deals is the best way.
Sir actually, idiots live everywhere, you remember a proverb "Who thinks that he is wise thinks that all other are idiot is biggest idiot.
Actually, it's BJP not govt which can't see blowups & blacklisting is for political reason not for Italy but for INC.
It is good that scorpene is redesigned to remove hardwiring for black shark.
It is a folly to buy such design in the first place when local torpedoes of similar category are being developed.
If we would have bought Scorpenes from DCNS it would costed 650million ruppes but with 35% indigenization & DRDO AIP it will cost more than 1.2 billion dollar. already & redesigning for any other torpedo will take time & money.
You are saying there's no other technologically advanced country ahead of us in world except Italy who can help us?
Watch their moves, they don't want us, kyun gale pado faltu main. Aur bhi toh hain.
Watch bollywood movies, even they don't want us.
Ok, tell me name of companies which will supply 127/130mm SRGM for P15B, P17A?
You simply mean that an unrecoverable damage has been done in no time.
We also have to consider the possibility that indications of cancelling all further contracts is a counter to Italy blocking MTCR, earlier Italians were using the marines issue to block our entry. Now that marines issue is partially resolved, may be Parrikar is coaxing Italians to act in our favour. And don't forget Italian economy is not doing that well now a days, they need all the foreign currency they can get.
On national security, we should avoid looking certain events in isolation.
Well, they are already developed, their population is shrinking what more they need?
All countries economy isn't doing on a good way.
Even if they remain on where they are & we develop on speed which we are developing we won't overtake them before at least 2050.
I fully support and agree with Abingdonboy. The Italian court has itself said that it has no proof that any Indian official has taken bribes and our CBI too has failed to find anyone guilty. If there was a scam why has no Indian official, who took bribes, been arrested in the last 4 years? Why are so many ok with millions of dollars of taxpayer money being wasted to change the Scorpene fire control system ? What about the Country's defence preparedness? Will we blacklist the entire Tata group if Tata steel or Tata power do something wrong ? If things go on like this foreign defence manufacturers will blacklist the Indian MOD for being involved in numerous cases of corruption. The ban on Bofors, Denel, IMI, HDW did not effect them but destroyed the offensive capabilities of our armed forces. Should china attack us today we it would be a repetition of 1962. Waving a blacklist of defence manufacturers at the PLA and Pak army is unlikely to scare them.
You have to include much more ST Kinetics &
after Leonardo-Finmeccanica
MBDA
NHIndustries
ATR
AgustaWestland
Selex ES
OTO Melara
WASS
& etc.
This list is not even 1% complete.
Now except American only Saab, Navantia, Airbus & BAE systems are left in Europe.
I hope BAE & Airbus won't blacklisted before 2050.
Even in US now not many options left as Lockheed Martin had acquired Sikorsky.
Number of defence companies will become less day by day as West, Japan & many other countries are decreasing defence budget day by day
Only major industries for west will be India(West, Israel & Russia will fight) & ME(Russia, China & West will fight).
SCR won't see more than 20 billion arms procurement even in 2030.
Now budget of Vietnam is 4 billion & Philippines is 1 Billion & at both places India will give tough fight on cost as India can their requirement.
Singapore have money but don't have land to put this much arms so I don't think Singapore will buy more, they already have a good degree of indigenization.