Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[Flame Thrower]

BEL's Remote Weapons Station for Arjun Tank

I would love to see these on Indian land borders....

 

[sayareakd]

I would love to see these on Indian land borders....

RCWS on this...............................................

 

[Shaitan]

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Turbocharger for Bharat Pack

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Some of the pictures of MK2`s RCWS from 2014 defexpo ..

 

[tejas warrior]

The indian Army is likely to accept 68-ton Arjun mark ii tank for two more regiments. As the army requires the firing of the rocket from the Arjun gun, the trials have to be conducted again. T he indian Army wanted the weight to be brought down to 50-55 tonnes. we may be able to bring the weight down by seven to eight tonnes, but beyond that it will not be possible. Of Arjun mark i, 91 out of 124 tanks are in operational condition. we have resolved all the maintenance issues. Ammunition was an issue, and we resolved that also. we are going for the penetration beyond what have achieved so for.

 

[Shaitan]

I am sorry, but they're actively discriminating against this thing, again. They want this thing to be weigh 50-55 tons, yet want more ERA panels, etc. added to it?? They want to this thing to weight around a T90, when it CANT!! The whole hull and turret need to be reworked.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its design as per GSQR under Army supervision, Then how come out of nowhere such requirement are put down ..

I am sorry, but they're actively discriminating against this thing, again. They want this thing to be weigh 50-55 tons, yet want more ERA panels, etc. added to it?? They want to this thing to weight around a T90, when it CANT!! The whole hull and turret need to be reworked.

 

[Shaitan]

Its design as per GSQR under Army supervision, Then how come out of nowhere such requirement are put down ..

It's horrible, how on earth do you even look at that platform and think you can reduce the weight to that much, and yet again ask the developer for more armor, extra subsystems, etc. They intentionally want it to stay in development, or whoever is making the mandates are clueless.

 

[Vijyes]

Haven't the pakistanis dug a lot of tunnels near Indian borders so as to prevent Indian tanks from crossing over? That is the reason why the tank has to be light enough to cross a bridge which has to be laid out.

What I don't understand is why is the unrealistic expectations of extra armour when the weight can't afford to be increased drastically

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The tunnels which are talked about are for terror infiltration and not as anti-tank measure along Punjab areas, Around these areas Pakistan has many defense canal ..

Haven't the pakistanis dug a lot of tunnels near Indian borders so as to prevent Indian tanks from crossing over? That is the reason why the tank has to be light enough to cross a bridge which has to be laid out.

What I don't understand is why is the unrealistic expectations of extra armour when the weight can't afford to be increased drastically

 

[singh100ful]

Our defence minister once rightly said that this requirements are just from some comic books.

It's horrible, how on earth do you even look at that platform and think you can reduce the weight to that much, and yet again ask the developer for more armor, extra subsystems, etc. They intentionally want it to stay in development, or whoever is making the mandates are clueless.

 

[hammer head]

Its design as per GSQR under Army supervision, Then how come out of nowhere such requirement are put down ..

Thats because the kickbacks would get a kick, you keep changing tje requirement so that DRDO keeps rotating and remains busy.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

When will any INDEGENIOUS Engine get into the Arjun

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

When will any INDEGENIOUS Engine get into the Arjun

What about the Greaves Cotton Company who is making an INDEGENIOUS Engine

 

[Shaitan]

Arjun Mark 2

-------------------------

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Rough translation in English

First two minutes (intro): Guy says he's speaking from the CVRDE campus in Avadi on Republic Day. He says Avadi stands for Armored Vehicle and Ammunition Depot of India, a fact he only found out that day. Then he says we will talk about this tank and all the matters behind it. Mentions commander, driver, gunner and he's going to talk to many people behind this tank.

1:55 First he talks about the Arjun Mark II engine at the Engine Test House. Dept. head of this area is Mr. Swaminathan, Engineers Karthikeyan and Muninathan. Mr. Swaminathan says the engine is 1400 HP, about 10 times the power produced by a car or a truck engine. For a 60 ton MBT, it can take it about 70 kmph on normal roads. He says in this area, they do quality control of the engine. Each engine does 40 hours here, of initialization test, followed by performance test and then endurance test. They test for full power, look for problems, leakage etc. here, after which the engine is fitted into the tank.

Every tank engine does 40 hours here. He breaks it down as first 7 hours, they do initialization and tuneup. Once that is done, performance testing is done for the next 23 hours, after that the remaining 10 hours is endurance testing. He says, engine weight is 6.3 tons, including both the engine and the transmission combined (i.e. total power pack). He says that the engine and transmission are fitted as one unit.

He then mentions the crane and talks about using it for high-temperature/low-temperature air intake testing and says after this, the engine goes for assembly/

5:45 - He's talking to Mr. Balaguru, a scientist in charge of design and development. Mr. Balaguru says that compared to Mark-I variant, this one has 89 improvements to it. Of these, 19 are major improvements and 70 are minor improvements. Then he talks about the mine plough that attaches to the front and keeps the tracks safe from buried mines. Then he talks about the ERA in front and explains that ERA = Explosive Reactive Armor. He says that if an enemy tank launches missiles or HEAT warhead (shaped charge), which have excessive penetration, this ERA armor helps neutralize them, which is a major improvement. Then he talks about the CPS (Commander's Panoramic Sight) on top. Commander can use at night or dawn and can use it to engage an enemy tank or designate it for gunner. This feature is called Hunter-Killer capability and is built in. He says it has a 2 to 2.5 km optimum range to inflict max. damage. It has missile capability to engage enemy at longer ranges. He says it can neutralize enemy tanks at 5 km. ranges because of the missile firing capability. Then he talks about the Laser Warning systems. He explains that enemy troops will paint a tank with a laser to find out range, before firing (Laser Range Finder or LRF). They use it either to designate or determine target distance or use it for a beam-riding weapon. The laser warning system detects their laser and figures out the angle it is coming from. On top of that, there is a rotary grenade launcher that creates a smoke screen in front of the tank, so enemy laser cannot be used as a guidance for the missile and in that time, it gives the tank a chance of scoot off elsewhere. Then he talks about the remote control weapon station. He says in the Mark I system, they have a gun for aerial targets + against human targets at longer ranges. The difference between Mark I and Mark II is that in Mark I, the loader has to come out of the tank to fire it, whereas in Mark II, they can acquire target and fire from inside and no need to come out. He says one more major improvement is that despite ERA and mine plough, vehicle weight of Mark II is only 4 tons more than Mark I. He says final drive that drives the tracks is also improved here for more torque. Also says that when driving in loose sand or rough terrain, if the driver is inexperienced, there is tendency for track shedding, therefore these tracks are designed for increased wall weight, so it can be used even by inexperienced drivers without causing track shedding. He also says that since the tank is in a different weight class than Mark I, the hydro suspension is redesigned and it is indigenous and CVRDE made. Reporter asks how many team members are involved in building a tank. Mr. Balaguru agrees it is team work, but says he can't reveal how many. He also says one more big thing about this is that the improvements were all done within 2 years from start to handing for user trials.

11:30 Talking to Program Manager Mr. V. Balamurugan (Caption says he's managing director). He also mentions that there are 89 improvements and done in 2 years from 2010 to 2012. He says CVRDE has 12 different design divisions, each one does its part in the final assembly. He says that aside from these 12 divisions, DRDO has 6 other establishments that also contribute parts to the tank. He says his role is to coordinate these 12 divisions + 6 drdo labs. He says tank has number of stakeholders: army, DGSE, production agency etc. He says they involved all of them very early on in the design stages and got technology transfers done (apparently his job) and got necessary workers etc. did several meetings and figured out how to manage the program up front. He says tank did trial run and says something like 1000+ KM (didn't catch exact number except for 1000 part). He says they discussed what trial activity would be done to the tank and he mentions there are more trials coming. He says after trials comes production, and with production comes making sure the needed facilities in production agency are set up and ready, by the time the Army accepts the tank. In other words he makes sure that there is no delay between development acceptance and production stage. He says they are working on it and have drawings and documentation prepared for the user (EME). He says that it will take 3 years (i.e. 36 months) to produce the tank, but maintenance life is 30 years. So for it to be maintained for 30 years, they do all the planning up front, so that when the tank is released, the maintenance stuff is already planned for.

14:45 - He talks about the person in charge of the running gear, Mr. Solomon. Mr. Solomon says that the tank does not only run on roads, but is a cross-country vehicle. Country has desert terrain, river terrain, dunes, mountain terrain. He says this tank has to negotiate all kinds of terrain, so running gear is a very important system. He says the track is a chain rubberized track. He says that when the tank is running on a road, it should not ruin the road, but it should also be flexible when going cross-country. He says to do this, the suspension is a very special system. He says that this is the first time in India that this is 100% indigenous system made in India, design, development etc. He says it is a hydro-gas suspension system, has nitrogen gas and oil in the shock absorber. He says wheels are solid rubber and wheel can travel 537 mm. total and this helps negotiate all terrains. If this running gear system was not there, it could not negotiate cross country terrain.

17:35 He's in the simulator operating area. He says that in very simple terms, a simulator is sort of like a video game. He says that for example, it is not possible to drive in F1 race, but we can sit at home and play something that feels somewhat like it. He says that this is a simple simulation, but Arjun Mark II simulator is bit more realistic, controls are like interior of tank, how gunner shoots, how commander operates, all can be done inside.

Person in charge of simulator says that you get all the vibration and feeling of driving a real tank in operation -- whatever disturbances you feel in real life, you will feel inside the simulator. Can also simulate different environments -- fog, dust, storm effects, evening conditions. Drivers can practise in varied conditions. They learn how to start it, how to stop it, what procedures to do in emergency situations etc.

Then they go driving and the reporter points to a simulated cement block in the distance. When they get to it and climb it, he says it feels like climbing the real thing. Next, coming up is a big gap between two cement blocks. He gets to feel how it feels and points that viewers can see the screen also moves as though the gap is real.

Next he talks about simulating night vision. Guy points out that in wartime conditions, they don't use headlights. He says enemy can tell where they are if they use headlights, that's why they use Passive Night Vision Device (PNVD). He says that if you're looking outside in the dark, you cannot see anything, but the driver can see much more through his display upto 50 meters. Guy says only driver can see it, so reporter asks what about gunner. Guy says gunner has his own thermal effects sight. Commander also has his own sight. He repeats that driver's sight is much better than what someone outside with ***** eye can see.

Next reporter talks about firing conditions and mentions that the simulator vibrates realistically as though a real gun is fired. Next is fording exercise - i.e. how to go into water obstacle and outside it.
Reporter goes into little more recap and then thanks Mr. Anbazhagan (chap in camo uniform).

23:30 He's going to talk to CVRDE director Mr. P. Shivakumar. Dr. Shivakumar explains CVRDE = Combat Vehicle Research and Development Establishment. He says Ministry of Defence takes care of all services, Army, Navy, AF. Then we have DRDO - Defence Research Development Organization. Then there are other labs, of which one is CVRDE. CVRDE role is only combat vehicles. Of these combat vehicles, CVRDE is mainly responsible for tracked vehicles. He explains car, bus, etc. are wheeled vehicle and tanks are tracked vehicle and can do all terrains. He says CVRDE was originally there to support the Heavy Vehicles Factory, but now they participate in many products for Army, artillery, air force, navy etc. Main product here is Arjun MBT and he says earlier tanks were imported, or for tanks like vijayanta, T-72 it was just transfer of technology. However, he says today, Arjun, we are proud to say, it is made in India and used by us. It is the first of its kind, made for India's requirements, for indian terrain. He points out that if you look at T-series tanks, they are built for Russia's needs, not India's. He says, if you look today, Arjun Mark I has two regiments. He says they have 45 tanks per regiment, so there are 90 tanks fully functional in there and total of 120 tanks produced. He mentions comparative trials between Arjun and T-90. He says Army was very happy with tank. He points to Mark I on right and Mark II on left and says that it took 30 years for Mark I, but only 2 years for Mark II. He says DRDO has 4 labs and of these, CVRDE only takes responsiblity for tracked vehicles and don't do mini or micro vehicles. He says Army didn't say we want X technologies, but they looked at what was available around the world and saw what was needed for India and there was need for something for low-intensity conflict. He said, big factor in low-intensity conflict are mines. He points out how many CRPF people are killed, so mine reduction is big, so they developed a vehicle for mine reduction. Another matter is surveillance, he says something about if you look in Thiruvanmalai now, there's a UAV flying above. Third factor is Nuclear-Biological-Chemical threat. If you look at all these factors, Army has some old BMP-2 infantry tanks which they modified from manned operation to tele-operation. He says that tele-operation means that they can sit in a base vehicle and operate through camera from distance of 5 km., which they have fully proven. Now they've improved that to 20 km. distance. First they want to prove tele-operation at 20 km. and then want to go for fully autonomous vehicle. Fully autonomous means no need for human operator. He says with tele-op you can protect an island, operate the UGVs from the center.

Then talks about mine reduction. He says that they have a vehicle driving with sensors in front. He mentions that one sensor technology is not enough and so they have to use 2-3 different technologies sensors that work together to ID a mine. After they ID and mark the mine, they have to remove it.

Reporter asks if Mark II is 100% indigenous or are there any outside parts. Dr. Sivakumar says that no country uses 100% indigenous tech. He also says that when you look at numbers, even though cars are produced in lakhs, they are still importing stuff because we can't do it all ourselves. So what they are doing is first see what is already available in India or can be produced in short time and whether there is industrial support. Then he says they were given 89 improvements of which 19 are major and says that to develop the tech for these takes 4-5 years. So based on that, they decide what to import and says they can't just import anything arbitrarily, but should get proven technologies. So they decide what to import and what is made indigenously. Now if you look in Mark II, there are several new technologies, one is missile firing capability. Without that, your loader has to come out to fire at threats, but Mark II has RCW (Remote Control Weapon System). Then he mentions the laser warning system and the smoke grenades that form a screen to hide the tank. He mentions the ERA armor and chemical threats. He says in these technologies, we've done a lot ourselves. He says there are big differences in suspension between Mark I and Mark II, because of difference in weight category and they had 20 years to iron out all the problems. He says with the Mark I, if the driver were to steer it on the side of the mountain without knowing about how to negotiate it properly (e.g. not angle the stick right), it is possible to detach the track. In order to avoid that human error factor, they've redesigned tracks in Mark II. Then he talks about cost of production of tanks. Dr. Sivakumar says currently Mark-I costs about Rs. 24 or 25 crores. They haven't estimated or negotiated cost of Mark II yet, only dev. expenses for the prototypes have been around 140 crores. He says right now, 30% of the cost is going out in foreign exchange. However, he points out that if you make 1000 tanks or 1100 tanks, then you can see cost advantage and the unit cost will drop drastically. They can decide cost only after they know how many tanks to make.

Then reporter asks how they test how everything in the tank works. Dr. Sivakumar says that during development & production, they can only do limited trials in Avadi, because Avadi doesn't have all terrains to test with. They test the automotive side (i.e.) how it performs on flat surfaces, then test against gradients, obstacle clearance, side slope etc. But you have to consider where the tank is being used. For instance, Arjun is needed in the border, where there are desert conditions. And in those conditions, temperature goes to 55 celsius in summer. So they do limited testing in Chennai and then transport it 2500 kms. to the border, which takes 20-25 days. When it gets there, there are two important areas. One is mahajan? (marasan? couldn't hear it exactly) and other is pokhran. These are firing range areas. In those areas, there is loose sand and dunes and high temperature. One more thing with the sand particles is that they are as fine as talcum powder. Here they test the engine air filter capability, cooling system capability etc. So they take them there and do two types of trials: First is automotive trials, how does it handle gradients, desert, loose sand, sand dune, hard sand etc. which we test to satisfaction. Then there is firing test, whether with small arm or main gun, they fire it first. They make sure it performs to the requirements and after doing these trials, it is handed to user. As far as user is concerned, when they go to trial, they are given a set of trial directives and they test how everything works: track, firing, electrical, suspension, sights etc. full trials With Mark II they started trials in July 1st to August 2013 and did over a year worth of trials and tested every subsystem. Mark II logged over 3700 km in the Army's own range + the 2000 km in Avadi's range for a grand total of 5700 km. Then he talks about the missiles and the tank armaments. Main gun is 120 mm. rifled bore, which they check for 2 to 2.5 km. ranges, also testing at night and when tank is static or when tank is moving or when enemy target is static, all scenarios are tested for firing purposes. For missile testing they do them at min. range of 5 km. at least, though he says it can do 6+ km. They've tested with 22 missiles.

Final question reporter asks is if CVRDE is only making tanks for India or are there plans to export to some other countries. Dr. Sivakumar says there have been enquiries from other countries, but India's MoD has to take the decision to export.

 

[BrutusMarcus]

Allow me to add my 2 cents about motors.

The Greaves Cotton motor is but a clone (licensed or not) of the Argentinean MWM, which itself is knocked off an old Duetz engine. Nothing wrong in that, except that with each copy, the quality went cruder and cruder. It needs a lot of work put in to make it reliable, and then still, it'll still be an unproven motor.

As for the Ukrainian 2-Stroke opposed piston engine, I can understand a lot of people rooting for it, but the 1800hp motor is not really all that more powerful than they 1500hp version. By power, i mean torque, since in this case, they got the 1500hp motor to make a bit more torque, but pushed the rpm band higher; beyond 3000rpm, to get it to produce more horses. Compared to other !800hp engines, which make max horse at approximately 2000rpm and therefore have a higher torque, this opposed-piston motor would need a lower set of final drive gearing to perform just as well, which in turn will cost more fuel in comparison. Also, since it revs higher and than the small motor is loaded to the max (max power it can make per liter of cubic capacity), it will have a lower service mileage compared to other comparable power motors, if not the reliability issues that come with squeezing out every drop of power a motor can make.
I mean, that's what makes the MTU motor as good as it is. If you compare a 1500hp MTU V12 motor (MT883)to, say the Sacm V8 Hyperbar 1500hp of the Leclerc MBT, the MTU motor is nearly 2,5 times higher cubic capacity than the Sacm V, and therefore a lot lightly loaded, which the Scam V8, with the intention to squeeze every drop of power from every liter of cubic capacity, is extremely stressed. That not only creates reliability issues (& the Sacm V8 is not particularly known for reliability in any case), but also requires more frequent service intervals. A higher capacity, lightly loaded motor is always a better idea than a smaller, but heavily loaded motor, especially when it comes to MBT power-plants (besides, the Sacm uses a jet turbine to make the required boost to make that much power, something beyond what a regular turbo could reliably make, but going down that way it lost its main advantage, which is that the addition of the jet turbine made the entire package almost as large as the MTU unit in any case).

Coming back to the Ukrainian 2-stroke motor, it goes back to the 50's, or rather even further back, since its knocked off from the WW2 Nazi Germany's Junkers Jumo, only that the same basic platform has been upgraded over time to make it more powerful. If DRDO wishes to go for this technology, it might be a better idea to just ask the Ukrainians for technical help rather than buy the motor off them. The reason i state this is because DRDO might already have a platform to start with, because it wasn't just the soviets who cloned the Junkers Jumo concept, but the British too, and then again, used it for Tanks. The Leyand L60 6cylinder opposed piston engine powered not just the Cheiftain, but also another Vickers tank that later came to be known as the 'Vijayanta'. That makes better sense, since the motor was being built indigenously on a license (i believe), and the military too is already familiar with it. Just like the Ukrainian 6TD which started off as a 600hp something, motor to become the 1800hp motor it is now, the Leyland L60, being larger motor than the 6TD (L60 is a good 19,000cc compared to 16,300cc of the 6TD), has the potential to top beyond 2000hp easily if upgraded to a similar level.
Also, I believe the Indian army is also using British made tracked self-propelled equipment (the Abbot Howitzer, I guess) that uses a smaller, but similar type of motor; the 6,500cc, 6cylinder opposed piston, Rolls-Royce K60 motor.

 

[Shaitan]

Contrary to widespread speculation, the Indian Army (IA) has not forsaken or given up on the Arjun Mk.2 main battle tank (MBT). Instead, for the past four years, the IA’s Directorate General of Mechanised Warfare has been overseeing a collective developmental effort involving the DRDO, and the MoD-owned defence public-sector undertakings and private-sector OEMs that will in the near future result in a fully-loaded 60-tonne MBT armed with a 120mm smoothbore cannon while retaining the existing 1,400hp powerpack.

For starters, the baseline hull of the Arjun Mk.2 will no longer be built with imported low-carbon, nickel-chromium-molybdenum rolled homogeneous armor (RHA) steel, but with lighter high-nitrogen steel (HNS) whose production technology has been mastered by the DRDO’s Hyderabad-based Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) and has been transferred to Jindal Stainless Steel Ltd (Hisar). HNS will also be used by TATA Motors Ltd for producing the 83 Kestrel 8 x 8 armoured personnel carriers already on order.

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2017/03/arjun-mk2-mbt-now-firm-reality.html

 

[Pandora]

I still believe that if Arjun Mk2 shed its weight by 8-10 Kg .IA will accept it whole heartedly or else IA is mulling a plan to pull the plug very soon.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I am sure he means 120mm rifled and not smooth-bore, Further shedding 8-10 tons means lower tanks efficiency by reducing its ammo carry capacity and further reducing Armour cavity and thickness of various plates ..

Changing steel wheels by aluminum allow will shed nearly a ton weight is a gud approach ..