Arjun vs T90 MBT

[ersakthivel]

@ersakthivel I know you have mental problems, this is very obvious from your emotional posts... it is a very rare to human being to fell in love with a tank.

I never fall in love with the tank, What I am detailing here is what was achieved through years of trial and error and path breaking efforts at ARDE being laughed at by a some one you.Never post shit about stuff you don,t know anything about.

Spinning will reduce efficency of HEAT ammunition.





Oh BTW I am not teen, kid.

Also you call me an fake expert, well I never claimed to be expert. But I suspect it is just your childish behaviour is because you are jealous that other people have greater knowledge than you, and were able to find weak spots in design of your love object, isn't it?

So are you sure there has been no customization done on arjun to fire HEAt rounds?

 

[ersakthivel]

Request to members. don't indulge in personal attacks. the posts will be deleted

See ,every time DAMIAN is calling me a moron .I am replying once after every 10 provocations from him.You should first ask him to respect the the other guy here.
The higher muzzle velocity is needed to offset the tumble effect in smooth bore guns in the absence of spinning stabilization imparted on shell by rifled gun is a draw back in smooth bore gun is some thing you should know.

 

[Damian]

@Damian if the gun was that bad as you are saying then it would have been main issue in the T90S Vs Arjun tank trial.

ARDE gun was never tested against a modern gun, 2A46M are older than Rh-120.

What is this BLAH BLAH?

A truth, you are unable to accept.

Be a decent guy and admit you were posting shit all along.

I amdecent guy, unfortunetaly I have a bad luck to talk with complete moron.

You don't know any physics principle behind rifling. All you can parrot is in latest trials chally with rifled gun is beaten by LEO and LECLRC.

But there is theory,and there is real life, where smoothbore were more accurate... oh wait I know, if reality is against you,you will kill the reality?

When I submit proof the ADRE rifled gun on ARJUN has more muzzle velocity compared to chally's 5200 feet per second,So it equals leo when it comes to APFSD rounds.

Are you incapable to understand what I am talking imbecile? I was talking about nececity of higer pressure in rifled guns to achieve same velocity as in smoothbore guns, what is so difficult to understand here?

As for overall velocity, it does not depends directly on the gun, but on ammunition and it's propelant charge.

it can shoot any other round farther and more accurate than leo because of this higher muzzle velocity than CHALLy's rifled gun with spin imparted by rifling you are simply writing some sooth saying stuff.

You are accusing other people, when you are not even capable to understand a simple drawing, so shut up.

So are you sure there has been no customization done on arjun to fire HEAt rounds?

Nature of shaped charge jet makes it unfriendly to rifled guns. Of course there is solution, but this solution makes round more complex and expensive to manufacture. There is completely no sense to do this, only to improve spomeones fetish to rifling.

See ,every time DAMIAN is calling me a moron .I am replying once after every 10 provocations from him.You should first ask him to respect the the other guy here.

I was talking politely untill a bunc of fanboys incapable to understand a simplest drawing and explanation, started to attack me. So I will not hestitate to say truth about such people.

 

[Tolaha]

This thread proves the dangers of 2 sides discussing about an issue with neither of them actually involved in designing/working on a tank. We need some "real" tank experts on DFI!

 

[ersakthivel]

ARDE gun was never tested against a modern gun, 2A46M are older than Rh-120.



A truth, you are unable to accept.



I amdecent guy, unfortunetaly I have a bad luck to talk with complete moron.



But there is theory,and there is real life, where smoothbore were more accurate... oh wait I know, if reality is against you,you will kill the reality?



Are you incapable to understand what I am talking imbecile? I was talking about nececity of higer pressure in rifled guns to achieve same velocity as in smoothbore guns, what is so difficult to understand here?

As for overall velocity, it does not depends directly on the gun, but on ammunition and it's propelant charge.



You are accusing other people, when you are not even capable to understand a simple drawing, so shut up.

Besides after specs on muzzle velocity and acceptance after satisfaction from IA what else is needed?
Already it's accuracy is praised on record to being superior to any tank in IA by none other than MOD as per reports from ARMY.
Ia has already declared that it will base it's FMBT on ARJUN. Then why are you repeatedly calling it as obsolete.

And I have provided links to rifled guns developed by americans as well using the same slip obdurator tech as that of arjun gun even with performance graphs.
Instead of replying you are abusing!!!!!

If you want to post in any forum first try to respect the other guy.You will gain respect automatically.Go and read the whole conversation. Report to MOD how often you questioned my comprehension skills. Count number of times You accused me of being a moron , just a nationalist.

And also how many times I refrained from personal attacks and behaved responsibly.
MODs here are liberal.But that does not mean you can rant abuses on me forever.

But when cornered on every count with authentic links you are ranting personal abuses. In forums all over the net you are ranting repeatedly on ARJUn as it being obsolete, with out any hint of knowledge about what went into it.

Whatever specs and stats are advanced for argument wont be accepted by you, even on a simple spec like ground pressure per sq inch you were not ready to concede a point.

But every time I resisted and replied with statistics and authentic links. If you are unable to respond you too can keep quiet about it.

So I wont reply and you don't need to reply to me.

 

[Damian]

This thread proves the dangers of 2 sides discussing about an issue with neither of them actually involved in designing/working on a tank. We need some "real" tank experts on DFI!

And who is a "real" tank expert in your definition? Will be he objective or biased?

 

[Tolaha]

And who is a "real" tank expert in your definition? Will be he objective or biased?

Someone who has worked on tanks obviously. As for your second question, who isn't?

 

[Damian]

Besides muzzle velocity and acceptance after satisfaction from IA what else is needed?

Oh and did IA had chance to test other guns? Of course not, only twooptions are avaiable for them.

If you want to post in any forum first try to respect the other guy.You will gain respect automatically.Go and read the whole conversation. Report to MOD how often you questioned my comprehension skills. Count number of times You accused me of being a moron , just a nationalist.

You are the one attacking any non Indian (and Indians also) that do not agree,and actually have solid arguments. So you are the last person to say what I can or can't do.

And also how many times I refrained from personal attacks and behaved responsibly.MODs here are liberal.But that does not mean you can rant abuses on me forever .

Hoho good joke, responsible, you are not even capable to write in any normal way, not to mention behaving responsibly.

But every time I resisted and replied with statistics and authentic links. If you are unable to respond you too can keep quiet about it.

What statistics? What authentic links? You think that internet is such a reliable source? I had book where it is clearly said that during real life tests, rifled guns were less accurate than smoothbores, Methos also was providing informations based on reliable literature. What you done? You attacked him just like me, because he provided reliable informations against your statements and faith.

Someone who has worked on tanks obviously. As for your second question, who isn't?

So then opinion of such expert will be as valuable as mine or yours and variability of naswer is huge.

 

[ersakthivel]

Oh and did IA had chance to test other guns? Of course not, only twooptions are avaiable for them.

ARJUN met the GSQR spec of IA. YOu and I don't know whether it is above or below any other MBT. Only IA and ADRE know that.

You are the one attacking any non Indian (and Indians also) that do not agree,and actually have solid arguments. So you are the last person to say what I can or can't do.

if non indians repeatedly post that LCA wont fly beyond mach 1.4 , arjun is obsolete what am supposed to do? Clap in accordance?

Hoho good joke, responsible, you are not even capable to write in any normal way, not to mention behaving responsibly.



What statistics? What authentic links? You think that internet is such a reliable source? I had book where it is clearly said that during real life tests, rifled guns were less accurate than smoothbores, Methos also was providing informations based on reliable literature. What you done? You attacked him just like me, because he provided reliable informations against your statements and faith.

What is the date of publication of the book?.
EVER KNOWN ANY ONE BY THE NAME OF GERALD BULL who poineered the rifled gun?
Before the advent of F-22books written on fighters would have said that no fighter in the world can have an RCS of less than 0.1 square meter. Will it hold good forever?

So then opinion of such expert will be as valuable as mine or yours and variability of naswer is huge.

Both you and I have no proof of any contest between LEO and ARJUN , as there is none. So you have no grounds to repeatedly denigrate the rifled gun of arjun.

I never claimed arjun out guns leo. through out the debate i said it is as good as any MBt.Both you and i have no proof to point out it's inferiority or superiority with LEo.

If government websites and PDF links submitted with graphs and true drawings and DRDO's official PDfs are not accepted proof then what is the worth of your argument.

Once again CHALLy has way lower muzzle velocity than both arjun and LEo.Then how do you expect it to out gun LEO?
How can you base your opinion on rifled guns based on the lower muzzle velocity rifled gun of chally.

The brits and others NATo guys are standardizing on smooth bore for their own rounds commonality. Who will give indians standardized NATO rounds?

methos and you were parading a WRONG DRAWING purporting to show the great non existant weakness of ARJUn is the frontal arc in so many other forums basd on discarded tank -ex model. After 30 pages of argument did you correct your mistake or not?

 

[Damian]

Both you and I have no proof of any contest between LEO and ARJUN , as there is none. So you have no grounds to repeatedly denigrate the rifled gun of arjun.

Are you delirious? Where I was talking about some fantasy contest between Leo2 and Arjun? But perhaps it would be good for IA to test some NATO MBT's, they would have opprotunity to see how years of experience results in properly designed MBT's.

I never claimed arjun out guns leo. through out the debate i said it is as good as any MBt.Both you and i have no proof to point out it's inferiority or superiority with LEo.

Oh seriously, and all these superiority claims all over topics involving Arjun? Every Arjun fanboy claims about ti's superiority, that it "outguns" everything and such bollocks.

If government websites and PDF links submitted with graphs and true drawings and DRDO's official PDfs are not accepted proof then what is the worth of your argument.

These graphs are full of mistakes, especially when there are comparisions with other tank designs... even Wikipedia is more accurate.

Once again CHALLy has way lower muzzle velocity than both arjun and LEo.Then how do you expect it to out gun LEO?
How can you base your opinion on rifled guns based on the lower muzzle velocity rifled gun of chally.

The M829A3 APFSDS have a velocity of only 1,555m/s when fired from M256/L44 (despite the fact that gun can fire rounds up to 1,700+ m/s), and even despite the much lower velocity than most APFSDS rounds, it have a superior performance both in accuracy as in penetration capabilities, and only round capabale to achieve similiar results is German DM53.

So velocity does not depends on gun itself, neither it seems to be decisive in terms of accuracy and penetration capabilities.

The brits and others NATo guys are standardizing on smooth bore for their own rounds commonality. Who will give indians standardized NATO rounds?

You can purchase such ammunition from Germany, France, Israel, even Poland slowly starts manufacturing of such ammunition. The problem is with idiotic law in India that bans every company suspected of bribery, when not nececary there was bribery.

methos and you were parading a WRONG DRAWING purporting to show the great non existant weakness of ARJUn is the frontal arc in so many other forums basd on discarded tank -ex model. After 30 pages of argument did you correct your mistake or not?

Dejawolf proved that I was right by making a 3d model. What you done besides accusing of making mistakes and creating tons of false propaganda? Nothing.

 

[p2prada]

@Damian if the gun was that bad as you are saying then it would have been main issue in the T90S Vs Arjun tank trial.

In the interview or debate with the army commanders, they identified that the Arjun's APFSDS penetration is lesser than on T-90S.

 

[Damian]

In the interview or debate with the army commanders, they identified that the Arjun's APFSDS penetration is lesser than on T-90S.

Did they said how much?

 

[p2prada]

Did they said how much?

Of course not.

 

[Damian]

Pity, but I suspect you can estimate it. Arjun currently used APFSDS will probably be similiar to some early 1980's APFSDS ammunition used by NATO, at least it's physical shape gives such hint, and we know more or less what ammunition Indian T-90S use.

 

[Dejawolf]

what did you notice?

figure it out for yourself.

 

[Dejawolf]

So YOU THE GREAT DUMB ASS TEEN+1 AGE FAKE TANK EXPERT SHOULD EXPLAIN WHY ARJUN RIFLED GUN IS INFERIOR?

i know you are pretty much unfit read and learn anything from the link I posted above very well by the standard of fake drawings you posted here.

120mm Tank Gun KE Ammunition

KEW-A1, 4kg penetrator, muzzle velocity of 1740m/s.
and that's fired from the L44.

 

[pmaitra]

In the interview or debate with the army commanders, they identified that the Arjun's APFSDS penetration is lesser than on T-90S.

Do you have any references? Right now, it is a totally unsupported claim. Also, what were the details or test parameters in this particular test?

 

[pmaitra]

figure it out for yourself.

In other words, you don't know.

Prove me wrong by actually answering the question.

 

[militarysta]

i noticed something...

OMFG
This area is phatetic in Ajrun. How to hell developers allowed to place smth.like that
It's seems that Ajrun have two very serious flaws:

1. Obsolate, gun without good ammo.
2.Therrible protection:
-non protected turret sides
- huge weak zone after main sight
- no isolated ammo in turret without blow-out plates.

It's ridiculous...T-90S (SA) have mucht better developed turret:
-no sucht gaps in protection
- better armour integity
- bigger armour LOS
- no ammo in turret

Ajrun program shoud be canceled, and whole new turret shoud be developed. Im joking about chineese turrets for many times (some serious flaws there are to) but those Ajrun turret have sp phatetc crew protection that sincse now for me Ajrun turret is greate exampe how to not project tank turret. It's traged.

BTW: Guys from India - I have nathing against indian Army, Citizens, Industry, but you all shoud understand that Ajrun is ----ed up and it's patetic in compare to pak. T-80UD (Ob.478BE). Goog bless that Idia bought many, chepa and quite good T-90 from Russia, becouse Ajrun -whit that funny turret -is weisting money... Sorry - this turret is misunderstand.

 

[Dejawolf]

In other words, you don't know.

Prove me wrong by actually answering the question.

everything you need to know is in that picture.