Indian Multi Role Helicopter (IMRH)

[mehrotraprince]

Re: Indian Medium Lift Helicoper

One of the biggest advantages of composites were the lower weight. This has now been completely offset by Al-Li composites which weigh same as composites but are cheap and easily maleable. The 3d printing tech has also added to reduced weight of components and most composites can't be used today in 3D printing. Metal for metal, a 3D printed component is 5%-7% lighter and in case welding is reqd, the 3D printed componant is not only stronger but also lighter by nearly 10%. Alcoa has perfected the tech for Al-Li alloys and today we can't weld them easily but soon we will have the tech to do so.

The other advantage was lower RF reflection compared to metals. But the problem is that metals can withstand higher tempratures than composites allowing much higher speeds for an aircraft and are thinner while providing excellent electrical conductivity. This aspect is of biggest use when we talk of all weather flying abilities. We all know the problems being faced by F-22/F-35 while flying thru rains and thunderstorms. The electrical lining which needs to be added to composites which do not conduct electricity, adds more weight to the aircraft than what they save.

Americans are known to sell their shit calling it cancer defeating drug and ultimate drug to youthfulness and sexual power. But the truth is far from it. I have done tons of research on these techs for my own stealth design and I can tell you that within five years you will see that composites content in an aircraft will become much lower as Al-Li alloys take over.

Just to tell you guys, the thickness of an Al skin for an aircraft fuselage can be as low as 1.5mm but it rises to 3-6mm to provide same kind of strength when composites are used. I do not wish to share much of my research work here but it shud suffice to say that people in HAL & NAL are completely foxed with what I sent them and their frustration can be gauged from the letters they have written to me.

I disagree on few things, so I will only comment about those points which I feel is not right.

Many people think that composite just means carbon fiber, glass fiber or something related to that so first let me clear that doubt.

Composite: A material made up of two or more constituent materials, and those constituent material could be combination of non-metals, metals or combination of metals as well as non-metals.

This is very important to note that basically Al-Li is also a composite. The aluminum alloy used in high performance cars are also composites to be more specific metal composite.

Since my knowledge about aerospace is limited so pardon my ignorance but this statement that "We all know the problems being faced by F-22/F-35 while flying thru rains and thunderstorms" is not true, 1st generation stealth planes like F-117 (due to special tiles which at that time needed lot of maintenance and expertise on part of maintenance crew) had such problems but that is not the case with F-22 or F-35, they have much more advanced radar absorbing coatings which are not affected by poor weather.

One of the biggest advantages of composites were the lower weight.

It depends upon the type of composite material you are talking about, sometimes weight is not the reason to prefer composites over simple metals but other properties like non-conductivity, strength, ease of production, cost, maintenance, high resistance to heat, high resistance to corrosion............. in short it purely depends upon the type of use. Glass-ceramic matrix systems reinforced with silicon carbide or carbon fibers for Heat-Resistant is one such example.

Gone are the days of pure metal aircraft just like Stone age and then Iron age, future belongs to composites, be it non-metal, metal or combination of both.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Re: Indian Medium Lift Helicoper

Aluminium lithium alloy, not composite.

Decklander is right, EH-101 Merlin also followed same approach.

I disagree on few things, so I will only comment about those points which I feel is not right

 

[janme]

What is the difference bw LUH and IMRH?

 

[Twinblade]

What is the difference bw LUH and IMRH?

LUH/LOH is 3 tonne weight class, IMRH is 10-13 tonne weight class helicopter.

 

[janme]

LUH/LOH is 3 tonne weight class, IMRH is 10-13 tonne weight class helicopter.

Are we devloping LUH indigenously(without foreign assistance)?

 

[Twinblade]

Are we devloping LUH indigenously(without foreign assistance)?

Yes, except engine.

 

[janme]

Yes, except engine.

And LUH project is going smooth but IMRH will face delays because we havent found a partner for it?

 

[Twinblade]

And LUH project is going smooth but IMRH will face delays because we havent found a partner for it?

Last time around Mil and Eurocopter were shortlisted for selection of developmental partner but the tender had to be scrapped because our armed forces insisted on changing the JQSR midway. The IMRH design should get frozen in the coming months.

 

[Rushil51]

IMRH to feature in this AeroIndia.

 

[IndianHawk]

just for the sake of trolling........

 

[kunal1123]

AeroIndia 2017: HAL to Showcase mockup of new Medium Class Helicopter

After been offered recently for Co-development of Kamov Ka-60 Kasatka helicopter by Russia. HAL now plans to showcase Mockup of Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (IMRH) which will replace older Mi-8/17 Helicopters from Indian armed forces. (Russia offers India Co-development of Kamov Ka-60 to replace older Mi-8 Helicopters ) Russians sensing an opportunity had earlier proposed Co-development of Kamov Ka-60 with HAL and idrw.org was first to report this development.Proposed Medium Class Helicopter will be of 13-tonne class and will be powered by twin engines and will feature blade folding option for ship deck operations. New Medium Class Helicopters will also be used to move troop movement, high-altitude air maintenance, offshore operations, heliborne and amphibious assault operations, anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare. New Medium Class Helicopter revealed in past was set to have a maximum speed of 275km/h.It has estimated a range of 500 km.The service ceiling is estimated to 22,000 ft and payload capacity is to be 3500 kg. According to HAL combined requirement will be around 350 from Indian armed forces
http://idrw.org/aeroindia-2017-hal-to-showcase-mockup-of-new-medium-class-helicopter/ ..

 

[Prashant12]

HAL's concept Indian Multirole Helicopter (IMRH) mock-up.

https://twitter.com/livefist/

 

[kunal1123]

Last time around Mil and Eurocopter were shortlisted for selection of developmental partner but the tender had to be scrapped because our armed forces insisted on changing the JQSR midway. The IMRH design should get frozen in the coming months.

here my question why HAL need to form jv with foreign pattern they have acquired quite good experience in copter field (LCH,LUH, hal durv, mor for other ....) i say do it independently there is time for replacement ...........

 

[kunal1123]

is there is distance advantage or disadvantage in these two .

if not why not hal try later . it just look better than first one( to me....)

 

[sreenevasachha]

Is there any engine being developed for IMRH?


Sent from my SM-J200G using Tapatalk

 

[Guest]

is there is distance advantage or disadvantage in these two .View attachment 13666

if not why not hal try later . it just look better than first one( to me....)

I think they are Just trying to be conventional before graduating to advanced designs- Which is a better way to go IMO-

 

[abingdonboy]

is there is distance advantage or disadvantage in these two .View attachment 13666

if not why not hal try later . it just look better than first one( to me....)

I'm not sure if it would be worth it, the design you point to is called the fantail the advantadges of this design are primarily in safety as the rotor blades are covered.

These fantails are almost exclusively found in light helicopters as they have lower tail beams and thus pose a greater danger to ground crews whilst medium class helicopters ( as the IMRH will be) almost enver have this design, even the most recent designs.

Addtionally the fantail adds considerable weight and requires greater engine thrust than a conventional tail rotar design.

Another benefit of the covered fantail is they have reduced sound levels than a conventional design and thus are favoured for light helicopoters operating in civilian roles in urban settings- this isn't really that applicable for large military helicopters.

 

[Bahamut]

After been offered recently for Co-development of Kamov Ka-60 Kasatka helicopter by Russia

Ka 60 is a utility helicopter similar to ALH and we do not need helicopter of that class. Plus, why does not IMRH has swept main rotor blades? They help reduce noise and drag and enable high speed and fuel efficiency.

 

[Scrutator]

The Proposed Indian Multirole Helicopter (IMRH) Detailed

The Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (IMRH), which should hopefully soon begin development with the selection of an international technology partner, finally has a set of final specs (they underwent a change last year). The image you see above is the first diagrammatic representation of the helicopter from official material being prepared for documents that will follow up the invitations for Expressions of Interest (EoI) sent out last year.

HAL has proposed that the platform needs to have an all-up weight of 13 metric tons, a maximum speed of 275-km/h and a service ceiling of 22,000 ft. The Indian military wants the helicopter to have a payload capacity of 3,500-kg and range of 500-km at sea level. The IMRH platform is to sport a five-blade composite main rotor with a four-bladed composite tail rotor, twin turboshaft engines with dual full authority digital engine controls. The powerplants would be required to have a 30-minute dry-run capable transmission system. All IMRHs will have glass cockpits -- using equipment from Halbit Systems, DARE and Samtel.

The bid is stuck, however, at the EoI stage, with four companies wondering what is happening. Companies that have responded to HAL's invitation include Eurocopter (EC725 Caracal), Sikorsky (S-92A), Agusta-Westland (AW101) and Mil (Mi-17-IV).

Officially the IMRH mission spectrum includes troop movement, high-altitude air maintenance, offshore operations, heliborne and amphibious assault operations, anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare. An armed gunship version is also expected to be concurrently developed. Other proposed variants include civil transport, VVIP transport, and air-ambulance.

http://www.livefist.blogspot.com/

It appears like all HAL has is a bunch of requirements (probably based on Mi-8) and is begging another company to share design details so it can license produce it!!! Haven't we been hearing about IMRH for nearly a decade now?? And this is all they have to show?? Not cool at all!!!

Obviously the HTSE-1200 will be useless for this design!

 

[HariPrasad-1]

What engine we are going to use in this helicopter? Shakti engine is under powered for this program,so a new engine ?

Of course...........................