IAF Mirage 2000

[AnantS]

Sure they have and they pay huge fines for it. The Taiwan scandals are the first that comes to mind.

Agosta deals with Pakistan. One of the Puki not being satisfied with what they got as kickbacks -said to be the main reason behind deadly attack on french engineers in Karachi.

 

[BON PLAN]

French courts cannot initiate proceedings for a crime that occurred outside of their jurisdiction. What they can do is uphold and enforce the rulings of the other nation's court.

Possible d'entrer en relation pour faire mieux connaissance? Je n'arrive pas à t'envoyer de message privé.

 

[Wisemarko]

A US average citizen answer....
1) MICA, as AMRAAM, evolved. But it's not as marketed than in US with 'C5' or 'C7' or 'D'... and I don't speak of MICA NG...
2) It is well known that the range of US weappons is overestimed.
3) The sole F16 shooted down in air to air engagement wat fired by a Greek Mirage 2000, from a older version (with RDM adar). US products are over hyped.
4) An AESA radar is usefull to make differen task at the same moment. For the sole air to air mission, a good mecanical radar is better than a poor AESA one.
5) what is the range of APG 79 ? with a so small nose cone....

Always the same thing with US citizens : they think they are the best in all fields.... LOL

Lol...Indian masquerading as French..no knowledge of basics of French culture and lecturing here.

First stop acting French, come clean. You owe an apology to other proud Indians here.
I may consider answering to the incoherent mess you wrote only after that.

 

[Wisemarko]

T

French courts cannot initiate proceedings for a crime that occurred outside of their jurisdiction. What they can do is uphold and enforce the rulings of the other nation's court.

Thats not exactly true. Money laundering and bribery committed by French citizens or corporations for foreign officials is criminal offense in France under the 2017 introduction of the Sapin II law

 

[Armand2REP]

T

Thats not exactly true. Money laundering and bribery committed by French citizens or corporations for foreign officials is criminal offense in France under the 2017 introduction of the Sapin II law

That certainly doesn't apply to any of the 90s scandals that spawned that law into existence. Considering the maximum fine is only €1 million it is more a safeguard against the hundreds of millions they paid out to settle the Taiwan scandals.

Now that you found that law, you proved yourself wrong.

 

[Wisemarko]

Now that you found that law, you proved yourself wrong.

There’s difference between commissions and bribes. I would be shocked if bribes were legal too! Anyway.....

 

[Assassin 2.0]

This is an overpriced and mediocre upgrade

This is what happen when you don't have a indigenous defence market.

But claiming mirage 2000 have not been a effective jet for india is wrong. We used this jet heavily in kargil and in other strikes with close range mica NG it can take on paki F-16. Mirage 2000 will be retired by 2030 along with some older mig-29UPG.

This update was bad otherwise most of the French equipments have been effective for india.

 

[Armand2REP]

Mirage 2000 will be retired by 2030

The life extension is good for an extra 15 years, that suggests a retirement date of 2035. The last thing IAF would do is retire a perfectly good aircraft 5 years early, especially with the numbers problem.

 

[Wisemarko]

This is what happen when you don't have a indigenous defence market.

But claiming mirage 2000 have not been a effective jet for india is wrong. We used this jet heavily in kargil and in other strikes with close range mica NG it can take on paki F-16. Mirage 2000 will be retired by 2030 along with some older mig-29UPG.

This update was bad otherwise most of the French equipments have been effective for india.

I agree that French products have been useful for India. However, you will always be playing catch-up and pay lot more for French stuff. They also cannot match the continues product improvement of US. For instance, F-16 and F-18 are viable and in production while Tornado and Mirage production is gone! Rafale and Eurofighter are in-between Cold War relic that now Europeans themselves want to supplant with Franco-British Future Combat Air System.

There was a time when India was insular and did not have access to US technology. That is a passè and India can and should leverage more US platforms. I am very happy with current projects in pipeline. Cheers.

 

[Wisemarko]

The life extension is good for an extra 15 years, that suggests a retirement date of 2035. The last thing IAF would do is retire a perfectly good aircraft 5 years early, especially with the numbers problem.

I agree..........................

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I agree that French products have been useful for India. However, you will always be playing catch-up and pay lot more for French stuff. They also cannot match the continues product improvement of US. For instance, F-16 and F-18 are viable and in production while Tornado and Mirage production is gone! Rafale and Eurofighter are in-between Cold War relic that now Europeans themselves want to supplant with Franco-British Future Combat Air System.

There was a time when India was insular and did not have access to US technology. That is a passè and India can and should leverage more US platforms. I am very happy with current projects in pipeline. Cheers.

India gets what we find is suitable for our role.

Biggest reason for getting rafale was because of it's availability service rate of sorties and meteor missiles. And indian experience in already using French jets and eco systems.
And neither the Chinese or Pakistan have any experience with Rafale jet.

Pakistan is flying F-16 for decades now they can use it in better way let's say in close combat range. And moral of the nation also matters also doesn't match in using same weapon which our enemy is having.
Which was the first reason why Lockheed Martin PR team claimed it to be F-21 not F-16 viper.
FA-18 is best at aircraft carriers and US didn't put forward growler version for india.

And listen real cost of F-21 will go upto 24 billion $ because india never had infrastructure to maintain American platform much more than what we can spend.

Chinese have F-16 copy and fair experience with that jet.
Key reason why F-16 was kicked aside.

And neither Chinese or pakis have something comparable to meteor missile.

India also like to have good defence relationship with france. As you know france on Kashmir issue totally backed india.

India is thinking to buy 10 more P-8I.

I hope after mmrca 2.0 we don't buy any forgein jet.

 

[BON PLAN]

Lol...Indian masquerading as French..no knowledge of basics of French culture and lecturing here.

First stop acting French, come clean. You owe an apology to other proud Indians here.
I may consider answering to the incoherent mess you wrote only after that.

Do you speak French?
We may have a phone meeting to discuss in French...

 

[BON PLAN]

I agree that French products have been useful for India. However, you will always be playing catch-up and pay lot more for French stuff. They also cannot match the continues product improvement of US. For instance, F-16 and F-18 are viable and in production while Tornado and Mirage production is gone! Rafale and Eurofighter are in-between Cold War relic that now Europeans themselves want to supplant with Franco-British Future Combat Air System.

There was a time when India was insular and did not have access to US technology. That is a passè and India can and should leverage more US platforms. I am very happy with current projects in pipeline. Cheers.

Falso for SH18 : SH and legacy FA18 are 2 differents planes.
Mirage 2000 could have been in production later if India purchase the 126 intended. For the good sake of Dassault and India!
F16 or now F21 is now a old horse. It was a huge success, but its life is ending.

 

[Wisemarko]

Do you speak French?
We may have a phone meeting to discuss in French...

Would love hear your French with Indian accent!

 

[Wisemarko]

Falso for SH18 : SH and legacy FA18 are 2 differents planes.
Mirage 2000 could have been in production later if India purchase the 126 intended. For the good sake of Dassault and India!
F16 or now F21 is now a old horse. It was a huge success, but its life is ending.

F-16 life ending? Lol... it has more orders than Rafale got this year.

India is lucky to escape buying 126 Mirage with outdated radar and weapons that cost more than $75 million a piece. French can keep milking the Indian cow till it lasts.

 

[Wisemarko]

Biggest reason for getting rafale was because of it's availability service rate of sorties and meteor missiles

Rafale Fighter Jet Serviceability Rate With French Air Force Is 48.5 Percent
The serviceability rate of the Dassault Rafale fighter jet in service with the French Air Force is 48.5%, according to information given to a French lawmaker by the government.

The serviceability rate or the availability rate is the number of aircraft ready for missions at any given time. In the case of the French Air Force’s Rafale jets, nearly half of the fleet is on the ground undergoing repairs or maintenance, Jane’s reported on 24 November 2016.

According to the Janes report, the official record for France's Dassault Rafale fighter fleet in 2015 (93 aircraft in service with the air force) with a budgeted maintenance cost of EUR343.90 million ($364.56 million). This information was given to a lawmaker which Jane’s did not identify.

The figure presents an interesting proposition as Dassault, through the French government is reported to have promised in its deal with India that it will ensure that there is 75 percent serviceability, i.e 27 aircraft are operationally available at any given time of the 36 that India has orders. “There will be steep penalties if they don’t adhere to timelines,” unnamed sources were quoted as saying by the Hindu on 23 September this year. India concluded an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) with France for the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets at a cost of €7.87 billion on the same day.

In contrast the Su-30MKI fleet with the Indian Air Force has an operational availability between 55-60 percent which gives it a higher serviceability than the Rafale jets in service with the French AF.

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale Fighter Jet Serviceability Rate With French Air Force Is 48.5 Percent
The serviceability rate of the Dassault Rafale fighter jet in service with the French Air Force is 48.5%, according to information given to a French lawmaker by the government.

The serviceability rate or the availability rate is the number of aircraft ready for missions at any given time. In the case of the French Air Force’s Rafale jets, nearly half of the fleet is on the ground undergoing repairs or maintenance, Jane’s reported on 24 November 2016.

According to the Janes report, the official record for France's Dassault Rafale fighter fleet in 2015 (93 aircraft in service with the air force) with a budgeted maintenance cost of EUR343.90 million ($364.56 million). This information was given to a lawmaker which Jane’s did not identify.

The figure presents an interesting proposition as Dassault, through the French government is reported to have promised in its deal with India that it will ensure that there is 75 percent serviceability, i.e 27 aircraft are operationally available at any given time of the 36 that India has orders. “There will be steep penalties if they don’t adhere to timelines,” unnamed sources were quoted as saying by the Hindu on 23 September this year. India concluded an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) with France for the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets at a cost of €7.87 billion on the same day.

In contrast the Su-30MKI fleet with the Indian Air Force has an operational availability between 55-60 percent which gives it a higher serviceability than the Rafale jets in service with the French AF.

It's usual for an average american people to compare Indian apple and French strawberry...

It's a french economical choice. Because we are not in a war situation, the money for spares is limited so as to increase the number of hardware (because in case of crisis it's easier and faster to produces the missing spare parts than full planes).

When the french carrier is on mission, some months long, the serviceability of the embarqued Rafale are near 100% : so when needed it's possible.

Dassault has the nice habit of keeping its promises : The Promises to IAF is a 70% serviceability level. Just some months to wait for the result my dear average little american.

 

[Armand2REP]

The Promises to IAF is a 70% serviceability level.

It is actually 75%. IAF goes by 24hr standard, France goes by NATO standard of any given time.

 

[asianobserve]

Falso for SH18 : SH and legacy FA18 are 2 differents planes.
Mirage 2000 could have been in production later if India purchase the 126 intended. For the good sake of Dassault and India!
F16 or now F21 is now a old horse. It was a huge success, but its life is ending.

F-16V is not much older in tech terms than Rafale while F-16 thrumps Rafale in price and has much more weapons integrated and growth potential.

 

[BON PLAN]

F-16V is not much older in tech terms than Rafale while F-16 thrumps Rafale in price and has much more weapons integrated and growth potential.

F16 V remains a F16. Same small wings made for a light only air to air daylight fighter. Now that the bird grow and grow, the wings and the frame are shorter. For exemple.
It's not without that in head that an Agile Falcon with bigger wings was proposed some long years ago...

F16 is a early 1970' tech.
Rafale is a late 1980' tech.