Massive Russian Military Movement

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pmaitra

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Again you are cooking up things with your sharp wit Razor. I never said that I believe in Taliban, did I? I took no name. Just read my post again. Anyway let us not argue. Let us keep to our own views.
C'mon Peter. He is not cooking anything up. He did not accuse that you believed in the Taliban. He said that the basis of your justification is similar to saying, "I believe in the Taliban, coz they're in the conflict zone."
Just wanted to know the basis of the claims you make, and the justifications you give.
Your basis is similar to "I believe the Taliban, coz they're in the conflict zone".
 

Cadian

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@Akim,
Ukrainian is not a language. It is a dialect of Russian. Simply changing Украина to Україна, or changing Николаев to Миколаїв, doesn't make it a separate language.
To be more precise, Ukrainian is a language artificially created on a base of a village dialect of Western Ukraine. Very few people know it well enough to use it in serious and complex things like science and technology. And in politics too. When the debates in Ukrainian parliament get hot, then everyone, including fierce nationalists, switch to Russian. Actually, they don't know it, they invent new words on the move. There is a phenomena of "professional Ukrainians" who took high chairs in education and culture ministries. They determinate what should be Ukrainian language by writing schoolbooks and vocabularies.

The Ukrainian language is used by nationalists to show everyone how Ukrainian they are. Some of them principally don't speak Russian except for the cases mentioned above.

One important note. Pure Ukrainian is used only in Western regions. Russian is common to all the regions. But there is a hybrid language that used in Central (including Kiev) and some of the Eastern regions. It is called Surzhik and could be described as Russian language with heavy use of Ukrainian words. Similar thing is Yiddish, which is a German language with many borrowings from Jewish.

Good. Ukraine does not need all that. Ukrainian army only knows how to kill its own citizens and civilians and carry out car bomb attacks, Taliban style. In a war with Russia, Ukrainian soldiers will simply defect or desert.
Yes, taliban-style attempt to kill Pushilin is not climbing in any gate. Also terror airstrikes on government buildings (Lughansk, Gorlivka) destruction of pumping stations and sewage treatment plants (Slavyansk, Druzhkivka), zonderteams raids with shooting civilians and executions (Mariuopol, Krasny Liman, Schastye), destruction of schools, hospitals and kindergartens with artillery (Slavyansk).

ATO zone becomes a zone with unlimited violence. As we in Russian internet say, ATO = Anti-people Terrorist Operation.

Since Odessa, killing a pro-Russian is not a crime anymore. It's a noble deed actually. I remind that no one of 2nd May murders was punished, jailed or judged. Only their victims.

Subhumans? In other words, Untermenschen? Isn't Yatsenyuk a Jew?
He is not just a Jew, but one of high member of Scientology sect. Which is infamous for it's brainwashing and mind-control technologies.

You don't speak for all Russians, and you don't speak for all ethnic Russians of Ukraine.
Actually it's not an ethnic conflict. There are Russians and Ukrainians on both sides. It's about cultural and ideological choice.

Even when the new Kiev government steals 5 times more unscrupulously, lies 100 times more boldly, sends to death and kills people every day, consists of all types of freaks... but declares that they are now super-patriotic and ultra-Western - people believe them. I don't know how this magic works.
 
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pmaitra

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Ukrainian FM chants 'Putin - f**ker' at vandalized Russian embassy in Kiev


Andrey Deshchitsa

In an incident that may be a first in diplomatic history, Kiev's top diplomat publicly 'effed' the head of another state. Foreign Minister Andrey Deshchitsa chanted "Putin's a f**ker" with a cheering crowd that earlier vandalized the Russian embassy.

Deshchitsa arrived at the scene of the heated protest - which involved overturning cars belonging to embassy staff, the desecration of a Russian flag and pelting the building with firecrackers and paint - in an apparent attempt to defuse the crowd.
Ukrainian FM chants 'Putin - f**ker' at vandalized Russian embassy - YouTube

What do our Kiev junta supporters in the forum have to say about this?
Рудьковського змусили кинути камінь у посольство Російської Федерації й облили зеленкою - YouTube

Seizure, bloodshed could be aims behind Russian embassy attack – Lavrov

There are indications that "physical seizure" and bloodshed were the aims of the attack on the Russian embassy in Kiev, Russia's foreign minister told journalists.
 

pmaitra

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NATO is preparing a package deal to ramp up the Ukrainian military because it 'must adapt' to Russia viewing it as an enemy, the outgoing chief of the military bloc said.

The deal would be submitted to foreign ministers of members states later this month, NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen told El Pais in an interview. He declined to go into detail, but said it provides for defense industry reform and modernization of the Ukrainian military.
Source: http://rt.com/news/166040-nato-train-ukraine-military/


NATO Secretary-General Rasmussen (Reuters / Laurent Dubrule)

Someone tell this idiot Rasmussen to shut up.

All he is saying is that NATO must arm the Kiev regime so that it can kill more civilians.
 

pmaitra

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'US blocking gas settlement in Ukraine to prolong conflict'

Washington is making Ukraine stall on a gas settlement agreement with Russia to try and draw out the conflict, journalist and broadcaster Neil Clark told RT. Moscow offered Ukraine a 25 percent discount on gas, but Kiev insists this is not enough.
RT: Now despite the deadlock, the deadline for the first payment yet again has been extended. How long do you think this can go on for?

NC: Well I think Russia has got to bring this to closure now, but of course there's a trap here. If I behave in this way to my gas supplier, then my gas supply would have been cut off a long time ago. If I hadn't paid the bill for several months now, and I was owing huge amounts, then British Gas or whoever would cut off my gas. But if Russia was to do this, if it were to cut off the gas to Ukraine, then of course this would be portrayed in the West as Russia using gas as a political weapon, so Russia has got to behave very carefully here.

This has gone on far too long and what is happening, I'm afraid, is the United States is getting the Ukrainian government to reject any compromise from Moscow and that's what's drawn this out so much.
Gas talks stall because Kiev has little 'grasp of reality'

"Ukraine has been offered a very generous discount and yet they still want more. It really is quite incredible – the nerve and the chutzpah of the Ukrainian government in all this. I don't think any amount of discount would really satisfy Ukraine. They are spoiling for a fight here," believes journalist Neil Clark.

Instead of compromising and settling the debt, Kiev seems to be preparing to raise the stakes. Over the past few months it has been pumping as much unpaid Russian gas into its underground gas storages as it could and now says it has enough to last till autumn.

Kiev's desire to dictate the terms to Russia may have an irrational basis underneath, international law expert Alexander Mercouris told RT.

"It is difficult for the Ukrainians at this time to negotiate with Russians about anything. There are many people in Kiev who don't like that," he said.

"One of the fundamental problems with the way in which the Ukrainian authorities have been dealing with their multiple crises since they took power in February is that they don't seem to show very much grasp of reality," he added.

There are also concerns that Kiev would eventually simply siphon off gas it transits from Russia to European consumers, as was the case during previous rounds of gas stand-offs.
 

pmaitra

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pmaitra

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In Odessa, the radicals are planning a demonstration near the Russian consulate

Rally organizers are asking those who gather at the building, bring car tires.

The network has calls Evromaydana activists gather in the Monday, June 16, at a mass rally at the Russian Consulate in Odessa. Radicals asked all who come to the embassy building, bring a "black bagels."


Now, I am waiting for Akim to say that he lives in Odessa, and this is all Russian propaganda. Then Peter will come and say Akim lives in Odessa so he knows everything.
 

pmaitra

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Man commanding the Ukrainians in the fighting, may be from the U.S. military



Ukrainian military army led by Mike, who speaks English and wears a patch on the form of foreign special forces.

It has turned out to LifeNews video, which captures the battle militia soldiers natsgvardii in Mariupol. Ukrainian military army led by a man whom everyone called Mike. He speaks English, and on his sleeve he can see the badge of foreign military special forces.
 

pmaitra

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Ukraine crisis: A guide to Russia's vision of Crimea

One remark you constantly hear is that Crimea is historically "steeped in Russian blood". Another important tie, less tragic, goes back to pre-Tatar, medieval times.
Amid the impressive Greek and Byzantine stone structures that litter Crimea's answer to Pompeii, a cathedral marks the spot where Vladimir the Great is said to have been baptised in the 10th Century.

As the ruler who brought Christianity to what are now Ukraine and Russia, he is revered by Orthodox Christians like Mr Ivashevsky, who inhales the air of Chersonesus like a tonic.
Interred along with them is the Russian explorer Admiral Mikhail Lazarev, who commanded a ship on the Russian expedition which discovered Antarctica for the world in 1820.
There may be younger ethnic Russian Crimeans who wanted to stay in Ukraine, having never known any other country, he accepts. But he believes the "overwhelming majority" wanted reunification with Russia.
For him, Ukraine is a "wicked stepmother" who promised Crimean Russians a better life after independence in 1992, then "deceived" them. In all those 22 years, he says, he "never felt Ukrainian".

The deciding factor for Mr Ivashevsky this winter was the new Ukrainian parliament's attempt to remove the status of Russian as an official second language.

While that attempt was quickly blocked by the new president, "first impressions count", as another ethnic Russian put it.

Contending controversially that everyone in Ukraine understands Russian, an indignant Mr Ivashevsky asks: "Is there any other country on Earth where a language understood by 100% of the population is not a language of state?"

What, he asks, is an old woman to do when she goes to buy medicine in a chemist's shop and cannot read the instructions because they are written in Ukrainian? Why not a multilingual Ukraine like Canada or Switzerland?
There are many here who do not understand the reality.

@Peter, read this article, especially the pre-Tatar history. But before you do that, learn the difference between Tatar, and Tartar.

@Akim, you live in Ukraine. I don't. Nonetheless, I would ask you to study your own history. Not the manufactured history presented by the Ukro-Nazis.

To both @Peter and @Akim, this is from the British Brainwashing Corporation (BBC), not from RT.
 
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pmaitra

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Russians Find Few Barriers to Joining Ukraine Battle

By ANDREW E. KRAMER
JUNE 9, 2014

ROSTOV-ON-DON, Russia — It was at a barbecue outside a city in southern Russia, this Russian war veteran recalled, that he and some friends met an envoy for the separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine. They were fighting for their families, the envoy said, against the "neo-Nazis and ultranationalists" who had seized power in Kiev in a February coup.

"We asked him, 'Do you need help?' " the veteran said in an interview on the Ukrainian side of the border. "He said, 'Yes we do.' And so we offered to help."

As warfare has raged in the separatist provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk, Russia's role has been hard to discern. In contrast to the conflict in Crimea, no regular Russian soldiers have been visible in eastern Ukraine, and President Vladimir V. Putin has ordered his troops to pull back from the border region.

But late last week, Ukrainian border guards abandoned a post near Luhansk, blowing a hole in a border that was already considered porous at best, opening the way for men, war matériel and contraband to enter the country. Since then, several other posts have been commandeered by the separatists, who also overran the border guards' headquarters in Luhansk.

The overall situation at the frontier remains murky; there is no evidence yet of a flood of men and arms crossing the border. Yet it is clear that numerous Russians, most of them war veterans, Cossacks or ultranationalists, have signed up to fight in Ukraine in recent weeks, either with recruiters or through one of several websites established expressly for enrolling them.

Exact figures are elusive, but analysts say that a significant number of Russian citizens have slipped across the border in recent weeks. In one indication, after a particularly intense battle last month, a leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic said 31 of the 40 or so fighters killed were Russians, their bodies subsequently returned for burial in their homeland.

Moscow, held responsible by the West for nurturing the conflict, denies any role in the war, yet it clearly has done almost nothing to stop its citizens from joining the fight. On Saturday, in response to calls from the Group of 7 countries, Mr. Putin ordered the Federal Security Service to tighten the border to stop illegal crossings. But the effects of that order were not immediately evident.

The Dolzhansky checkpoint, one of several on the Russian border that have been taken recently by pro-Russian separatists, was manned last weekend by Cossacks, the traditionally semi-nomadic Russian horsemen of the southern steppes who live in villages on both sides of the border — sometimes even straddling the boundary.

There was no sign of the men, arms and ammunition that the Ukrainian government says are crossing the border in increasing numbers from Russia and stoking the conflict in eastern Ukraine. Sitting on lawn chairs in the shade, the Cossacks waved through a trickle of dusty cars. Some carried men, others women and children. They were not bothering with a passport stamp; they said they did not even have one.

Anybody could pass into Ukraine, one of the fighters said, but guards on the Russian side were not letting weapons through because that would be "an act of war."

Carol Saivetz, a Russian specialist for the Security Studies Program at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said the switch from reliance on local eastern Ukrainian men to a force with more Russians started last month. It is almost certainly proceeding with the blessing and backing of the Kremlin, she said, "even if the Russians are indeed volunteers rather than serving military men."

She added, "Putin has so stirred up Russian nationalism, and with the propaganda barrage that there are fascists in Kiev, it's not inconceivable that some lost souls will sign up to serve.

"It's also clear that Russia has been assisting them in their efforts," she said, "and now, as it becomes an increasingly professionalized force, there have to be questions about how much support Russia is giving. My bet is a lot."

Not everything, certainly not everyone, coming into Ukraine has to cross at a checkpoint. Outside the official crossing areas, the borderlands are a porous landscape of wheat fields, oak forests and innumerable ravines and country roads, crisscrossed by militants who can easily escape detection.

The route to the frontier from the Russian side leads across the Don Steppe, an area known in czarist times as the "Wild Field." It is a rural and agricultural panorama, where ripe winter wheat blows in the breezes, interspersed with dense forests and tiny villages.

On the Russian side of the border stand new concrete buildings and proper fencing, separated by 100 yards or so of potholed asphalt from the Ukrainian side, with its sheet metal guard shacks. Afterward the road carries on, through the same countryside.

Most men come across unarmed, picking up rifles later on that might have been pilfered from Ukrainian military arsenals, web testimonials and Russian volunteers interviewed say.

The soldier recruited at the barbecue, who offered only his first name, Alan, for security reasons, said he slipped into Ukraine in May, long before Mr. Putin's announcement. The recruiter was a pro-Russian separatist from Ukraine, he said in an interview at a separatist base in Donetsk. "I don't take commands from the Russian government," he said.

While the personal touch is no doubt effective — often reinforcing the idea hammered at in the Russian news media of battling neo-fascists who seized the Ukrainian government in a February coup — volunteers wanting to join the battle can simply click on any of several recruitment websites.

"We help people who wish to provide military charity to brother nations and states," says one site providing the service, Dobrovolec.org. (Dobrovolec means "volunteer.") "In other words, we help you to help others."

A facilitator at the site, Aleksandr Zhuchkovsky, a 27-year-old native of St. Petersburg, said in a telephone interview that he helped a dozen or so Russian nationalists cross the border last month, and has as many lined up for June.

"In my experience, the government doesn't help, but doesn't prevent us from getting through," he said. Volunteers live in hotels, rented apartments and tent camps in Rostov-on-Don, a staging area for the activity.

Interviewed on the Ukrainian side of the border, one volunteer in the Vostok Battalion, Aleksandr, 18, said he learned of the volunteer effort while surfing Yandex, the Russian version of Google, then joined through an acquaintance. Volunteers could come, he said, but "Putin cannot send the army, because that would set off World War III."

Cossacks, are also volunteering, though they complain about being restrained by Moscow.

"We don't need a website to cross the border," Ivan P. Doroshev, a commander of a Cossack unit, the 10th Georgiyevsky Hundred of the Don Cossacks, said in an interview, over a meal of salted fish at his country retreat in the reedy wilderness of the Don River delta, on the Russian side.

It is easy enough to walk across the border, he said. But the Russian government has prohibited Cossack units from crossing en masse. Instead, individual volunteers go to fight. Four from his village have gone, Mr. Doroshev said. One was killed and three returned wounded.

"If they volunteer, they volunteer as individuals and not as my men," Mr. Doroshev said. Still, among eastern Ukrainian militants, Cossack symbols like sheepskin hats, or the Don Cossack symbol of a deer struck by an arrow — meaning it is better to die free than to live like a slave — are commonplace.

A Facebook eulogy to a Russian nationalist who died in Ukraine, Aleksandr Vlasov, cited the young man's posts before leaving, and his plans. "We should receive assault rifles" on the Ukrainian side, he said. He planned to buy a uniform and a rucksack in Russia, then slip across.

"Sure, I don't want to die and leave my children and wife and living mother," he wrote. "But it would be worse to someday have my son ask, 'And what did you do while the Nazis killed people?' " He finished by writing, "Russians forgot how to die. And we die marvelously. Like none others."
A word of caution:
There are plenty of "specialists" in the west, like Carol Saivetz. Take their words with a bucket full of salt. Also, there is a professor of history at Yale University, called Timothy Snyder. It is safer to assume whatever he says about Russia as total codswallop. He is a professor of history, apparently, because he peddles manufactured stories that suit the western narrative. This is my opinion.
 

Peter

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Probably because you are using the f-word. (I have deleted that post by Kaalapani. @Kaalapani, please stop this name-calling.)



Who is getting angry? I know, it is you, that is why the f-word.

We have an auto-censor set up in this forum. You cannot use the f-word.

BTW, feel free to believe whatever you want. No one is stopping you.
Where did I use the f- word??? I have never used the slang words in this forum or for that matter anywhere. You can check all my posts. That "---- " meant was not a slang word. I wanted to point out the options. I have never used any f word against Kaalapani opr any member or anything. You can check all y 750+ posts. You cannot find one use of any f word or even any slang. I have at-most used silly and stupid.
 
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pmaitra

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Where did I use the f- word??? I have never used the slang words in this forum or for that matter anywhere. You can check all my posts. That "---- " meant was not a slang word. I wanted to point out the options. I have never used any f word against Kaalapani opr any member or anything. You can check all y 750+ posts. You cannot find one use of any f word or even any slang. I have at-most used silly and stupid.
Interestingly, you have exactly four hyphens.

Ok, I will take your word for it, and give you the benefit of doubt. Use an ellipsis (. . .).
 

Ray

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Staunton, June 15 – In Ukraine, Vladimir Putin's Russia is acting either as a failed state that cannot control the movement of heavy military equipment by independent groups across its borders or as a state sponsor of terrorism by such groups or an aggressor state that has invaded a neighboring sovereign state – or most likely as some combination of the three.

There are no other possibilities, however much the Putin regime seeks to confuse the situation and however much some Western governments want to accept Moscow's obfuscation lest they be forced to make the hard choices required if they were to acknowledge this reality and the dangers it represents
Window on Eurasia -- New Series: Window on Eurasia: The Three Faces of Putin’s Aggression in Ukraine

May see
На российско-украинскую границу переброшены бронеавтомобили «Ð¢Ð¸Ð³Ñ€» и армейский спецназ (ВИДЕО) - Новости - Новая Газета

Moldova seems to be next.


Staunton, June 15 – At a secret meeting ten days ago, representatives of the Gagauz, Ukrainian and Bulgarian minorities of Moldova as well as leaders of opposition political parties signed an agreement to seek the federalization of Moldova now and the dismemberment of Moldova if Chisinau goes ahead with an EU accord.
Window on Eurasia -- New Series: Window on Eurasia: Moscow Mobilizing Moldova’s Minorities and Political Opposition against Chisinau
 

Peter

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Interestingly, you have exactly four hyphens.

Ok, I will take your word for it, and give you the benefit of doubt. Use an ellipsis (. . .).

Yes I made the mistake of using --, I have never used any slangs against any member. I cannot edit my posts so you can check the original post.

Also I really do not know who is right/wrong in this conflict.

Russia maybe right here also. Who knows? I do know USA had destroyed the govts of some Latin American and other countries by assassination and sabotage during the Cold War. The fact is US is no saint and I do know that.
I only want US support for India till India becomes a superpower. After that India should become like Japan , a developed country with eastern values.

I just feel that US might be right here as Ukrainians genuinely want to go to EU. IMO they just want the open market of EU,the cash and all other economic benefits that the West promises.
Also I have little knowledge on Ukraine so this thread is not for me though I would check on Tartars and Tatars.
 

pmaitra

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@Peter,

The west promises a lot of things, but it rarely happens.

What about the promises made to Boris Yeltsin? Why did NATO continue to expand towards the east after the disbanding of the Warsaw Pact?

The violent protests in Ukraine are done by a violent and vocal minority. How are we supposed to judge they all want to be part of EU? Event the Ukrainian parliament rejected all the things the EU required for Ukraine to join EU. This happened before the coup d'etat. Why don't you read thoroughly about the subject? It is all in this thread. I get the impression you rely a lot on rumours and assumptions.

Also, why was a man armed with a Kalashnikov threatening lawmakers in Ukraine?

EU does not want Ukraine in because it is some charitable organization. It simply wants the mineral rich regions of Donetsk and Lugansk. Did you miss that article I posted about IMF saying that it will restructure its loan to Ukraine if it loses Donetsk and Lugansk? Why do you think the Kiev regime is using unguided rockets and artillery to bombard eastern Ukrainian cities? They don't care about the humans living there. They only want control of the resources.

Coming back to US sponsoring coup d'etats, why only Cold War, they are doing it right now. They are dong it in South America. They are doing it in Middle East (supporting al-Qaida and all other insurgents). Also, who knows why the US sent a ship load of armed mercenaries to the Indian coastline?
 
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Ray

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Ukraine between the West and Russia

IN THIS EPISODE OF THE STORY IN 1073

ALL MATERIALS ARTICLES PHOTO GALLERY VIDEO NEWS
June 15, 2014
Deshchytsa: mat to Putin saved from the destruction of the Russian Embassy 8277
Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Andriy Deshchytsa said his obscene expression against Vladimir Putin saved the Russian embassy in Kiev from defeat demonstrators. - My statement was that, to express ...

June 15, 2014
LC power: per night under Lugansk killed about a hundred people 23949
About a hundred people were killed under Lugansk in the last day. Such data are the RIA Novosti reported with reference to the head of the People's Republic of Lugansk Valeria Bolotov.

June 15, 2014
Bolotov: IL-76 was shot down in Lugansk militia 23512
Ukrainian IL-76 aircraft shot down yesterday in Lugansk, was shot down by militias. This was stated by the self-proclaimed leader of the People's Republic of Lugansk Valery swamp. - IL-76 was shot down is our defense forces - quoted Bolotov ...

June 15, 2014
Rasmussen: NATO to help Ukraine in its confrontation with the insurgents 6898
NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said in an interview with the Spanish newspaper El Pais said that the alliance plans to change approaches to security in Europe. This decision was made because of Russia's unwillingness to engage in constructive dialogue with ...

June 15, 2014
Russian politicians criticized for Deshchytsa mat against Vladimir Putin 5512
The representative of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia Konstantin Dolgov live radio station "Moscow Says" criticized swearing Ukrainian Foreign Minister Andrei Deshchytsa against Vladimir Putin. - I think it's ...

June 15, 2014
Trilateral talks on gas continue tonight 22293
Negotiations between Russia, Ukraine and the European Union on the gas issue will continue tonight. This "Ekho Moskvy". Working meeting of interested parties is scheduled for 20:00.
Украина между Западом и Россией - Сюжеты - Новая Газета
 

Ray

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NATO should not expand or encroach former Soviet republics.NATO is Crossing Red Line.

The real game will begin this winter.
The Eastern Partnership (EaP) is an initiative of the European Union governing its relationship with the post-Soviet states of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine, intended to provide a venue for discussions of trade, economic strategy, travel agreements, and other issues between the EU and its eastern neighbors. The project was initiated by Poland and a subsequent proposal was prepared in co-operation with Sweden.

May see this
http://eeas.europa.eu/eastern/docs/eap_vilnius_ppt_201113_en.pdf

Behind all that high sounding principles is the simple reason for the EU to expand = strategic requirement to squeeze Russia and its influence.

Merely the playing out of the Wolfowitch Doctrine, that enunciated the main objective as below:

Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.
 
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pmaitra

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Behind all that high sounding principles is the simple reason for the EU to expand = strategic requirement to squeeze Russia and its influence.

Merely the playing out of the Wolfowitch Doctrine, that enunciated the main objective as below:
In addition to that, they also want to stifle Russia's existing trade with former Soviet countries, and block it off from Russia completely, as EU regulations require certain "standards" that are set by the EU, and the currency, which is printed by the EU honchos. The end result would be, in case of Ukraine, the local factories will have to be shut down, and then sold off to western corporations, who would then invest and upgrade them, while, in the meantime, EU made goods will flood the Ukrainian market, while Ukrainians will have to migrate to EU to work in menial jobs.

One simply needs to see what people from Poland in UK are doing. Most of them are in blue collar jobs.
 
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