Zarb-e-Azb cost $1.9 billion: Dar

Compersion

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america allowed and also continues to allow pakistan to be able to be called a nuclear tested area (that is the biggest reward - whatever pakistan wants to call it for its afganistan - soviet policy of earlier). did this cause strain among american and india relationship surely (another pakistan benefit). can india blamed for pakistan nuclear test only and have prevented it ... nope. and there is PRC. did PRC help against soviet and india and more later (another pakistan benefit). did Pakistan benefit by opening up PRC to its economic explosion vs. the way they demand and beg to be reimbursed about Afghanistan ... where are the priority (is that normal).

the more pakistan wants to talk and focus about the history of afganistan the more the americans will focus on reasonableness and look at what the real mistakes were and who is really accountable. (apparently this cause americans to fight among themselves but they have to see the reality of normalcy and what that actually is which is far far away from their pakistan policy).

somehow the pakistan is still able to scare and make the american afraid for some reason ... perhaps it is because pakistan missiles can reach israel far too easily ... perhaps it is something else. is it india will have to deal with pakistan alone ? are others wanting to join with india to deal with pakistan ? i frankly believe when pakistan say united nations i totally agree ... there needs to be united nations peace keeping force inside pakistan to maintain order and peace and disassemble (and reunite and order it with others) into smaller pieces. has UNSC ever ordered a peace keeping force into another nation to do such a thing.
 
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Screambowl

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somehow the pakistan is still able to scare and make the american afraid for some reason ... perhaps it is because pakistan missiles can reach israel far too easily ... perhaps it is something else. is it india will have to deal with pakistan alone ? are others wanting to join with india to deal with pakistan ? i frankly believe when pakistan say united nations i totally agree ... there needs to be united nations peace keeping force inside pakistan to maintain order and peace and disassemble (and reunite and order it with others) into smaller pieces.

Because Pakistanis don't get seduced in front of the white skin. They are so into non acceptance in the name of religion , which is good in many cases for them, that their agencies have mastered how to trap and fool americans without getting lured.

Where as in India pro liberals and sickulars have taught us to bow in front of anyone who speaks english and eats with knife fork. Too liberalisation has allowed the foreign intelligence agencies to work more effectively in India. But in Pakistan it is tough for the westerners because there is no acceptance of pro liberal and sickular thoughts in their society.
 

Compersion

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Because Pakistanis don't get seduced in front of the white skin. They are so into non acceptance in the name of religion , which is good in many cases for them, that their agencies have mastered how to trap and fool americans without getting lured.

Where as in India pro liberals and sickulars have taught us to bow in front of anyone who speaks english and eats with knife fork. Too liberalisation has allowed the foreign intelligence agencies to work more effectively in India. But in Pakistan it is tough for the westerners because there is no acceptance of pro liberal and sickular thoughts in their society.
not sure want to go to such lengths and also disapprove of indian policy (which i think is reasonable to the majority). i would like Pakistan to cross that threshold to becoming normal and it is a bit like supporting the underdog and india will be there to support (a bit part of disapproving that silly two nation theory also). but for that pakistan also require to deal and open up to india and have more economic, political and cultural linkage. not sure pakistan wants to do that and they focusing on things like Afghanistan control through taliban, allowing others terrorists in safety (laden, saeed etc), arab dream, PRC economic corridor - north koreaisation, and other bizzare objectives which is far away and against normalcy is there for everyone to see. add to that the nuclear proliferation, predator strikes, non-state actors (uncontrollable <-> controllable). there is also baluchistan, gilibit, and even sindh. the suicidal nuclear weapon to save it all lol ?? it is easier to be abnormal for pakistan.

they were able to test nuclear weapon. pakistan needs to understand that when they say they got nothing from afganistan and soviet ... is wrong. and it has made us indians upset (another benefit to them). they are still able to get others to reward them and even give to them is the question. why ... you have attempted to answer that by way of character. perhaps it is the character ... perhaps it is the deception. but making a fool of others ... is not a easy job.
 
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Screambowl

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they were able to test nuclear weapon. pakistan needs to understand that when they say they got nothing from afganistan and soviet ... is wrong. and it has made us indians upset (another benefit to them). they are still able to get others to reward them and even give to them is the question. why ... you have attempted to answer that by way of character. perhaps it is the character ... perhaps it is the deception. but making a fool of others ... is not a easy job.
When Pakistan was enriching fissile material in 80's via smuggled fuel and tech, Americans were aware of it. And then the DG ISI was called and conveyed the message that you have crossed the red line general. But ISI took americans under confidence that they are NOT building the bomb, and the enrichment is only below weapon grade material. How they did is their tactic.

not sure want to go to such lengths and also disapprove of indian policy (which i think is reasonable to the majority). i would like Pakistan to cross that threshold to becoming normal and it is a bit like supporting the underdog and india will be there to support (a bit part of disapproving that silly two nation theory also). but for that pakistan also require to deal and open up to india and have more economic, political and cultural linkage. not sure pakistan wants to do that and they focusing on things like Afghanistan control through taliban, allowing others terrorists in safety (laden, saeed etc), arab dream, PRC economic corridor - north koreaisation, and other bizzare objectives which is far away and against normalcy is there for everyone to see. add to that the nuclear proliferation, predator strikes, non-state actors (uncontrollable <-> controllable). there is also baluchistan, gilibit, and even sindh. the suicidal nuclear weapon to save it all lol ?? it is easier to be abnormal for pakistan.
Normal Pakistan is not good for our health. Pakistan is a buffer point between West and East. It is a necessary evil ' sometimes'. Just like Afghanistan remain centre of conflict due to it's geographical location, similar way Pakistan must remain as it is for now. Too weak Pakistan is dangerous, too strong Pakistan is more dangerous. Hence unstable middle power Pakistan suits the best.
 

angeldude13

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Are they killing good ones or the bad ones??
 

Compersion

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When Pakistan was enriching fissile material in 80's via smuggled fuel and tech, Americans were aware of it. And then the DG ISI was called and conveyed the message that you have crossed the red line general. But ISI took americans under confidence that they are NOT building the bomb, and the enrichment is only below weapon grade material. How they did is their tactic.



Normal Pakistan is not good for our health. Pakistan is a buffer point between West and East. It is a necessary evil ' sometimes'. Just like Afghanistan remain centre of conflict due to it's geographical location, similar way Pakistan must remain as it is for now. Too weak Pakistan is dangerous, too strong Pakistan is more dangerous. Hence unstable middle power Pakistan suits the best.
What u suggesting is not that simple ...

But there is a amusing point:

Pakistan lied to USA and USA knew ... And pakistan clearly states on their passports they hate Israel and their missiles can reach Israel. Forget about India what USA did to Israel with pakistan !! And you see the discussion on Iran (replace the words with pakistan). I would not say that Americans were fooled. Because they themselves have said Pakistan either incompentent if not involved with laden. Can we say america same with pakistan nuke program from Israel point of view. Because the world and Iran will say -> pakistan and its a fact. *** I will have to add here that the pakistan nuke story is complicated and unknown for instance is it real and not borrowed and even rented. Also the story is unfinished and america and others might not have played final hand yet. North Korea missiles cannot reach israel and middle east is being shown to be nuke free zone. Pakistan if it wants to cross normal threshold has to be aware of its actions.

Also it is upto Pakistan if it wants to cross that threshold to becoming normal if they don't want that let them suffer.

They have short term memory loss because it was only short time ago before they had a first complete democratic elected government complete its term. And in between there was scandals and also what not more ...

Normal threshold also means engagement and opening up to India and they will be surprised it will be good for them and they can even make us compete with PRC (and see the results in our favor). They need to see they can also benefit from the large India relationship.

It is up to them if they want to suffer later.
 
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Screambowl

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What u suggesting is not that simple ...

But there is a amusing point:

Pakistan lied to USA and USA knew ... And pakistan clearly states on their passports they hate Israel and their missiles can reach Israel. Forget about India what USA did to Israel with pakistan !! And you see the discussion on Iran (replace the words with pakistan). I would not say that Americans were fooled. Because they themselves have said Pakistan either incompentent if not involved with laden. Can we say america same with pakistan nuke program from Israel point of view. Because the world and Iran will say -> pakistan and its a fact. *** I will have to add here that the pakistan nuke story is complicated and unknown for instance is it real and not borrowed and even rented. Also the story is unfinished and america and others might not have played final hand yet. North Korea missiles cannot reach israel and middle east is being shown to be nuke free zone. Pakistan if it wants to cross normal threshold has to be aware of its actions.
Iran will build the bomb no doubt. Not today but tomorrow.

The famous quote by then the deputy director of CIA , Vernon walter said, "either Zia "did not know the facts" or was the "most superb and patriotic liar I have ever met..."

Because Zia constructed ''nuclear opacity'' for their nuclear program. And on visit to US, he had promised that Pak will not go for the bomb. But he lied. He also said that if India signs NPT, we will sign it too. But then it was not trusted by India.

Later Zia made contacts with China and sent weapon grade fuel to them , to enhance Chinese nuclear project and also built centrifuges there. Which some how helped him to reduce international attention on Pakistan and shift it towards China and Syria.

Since then they have been fooling the world bust still manage to get support because west also has to balance India. And right now we have similar opportunity to balance China. But cautiously not like Pakistan.


Also it is upto Pakistan if it wants to cross that threshold to becoming normal if they don't want that let them suffer.

They have short term memory loss because it was only short time ago before they had a first complete democratic elected government complete its term. And in between there was scandals and also what not more ...

Normal threshold also means engagement and opening up to India and they will be surprised it will be good for them and they can even make us compete with PRC (and see the results in our favor). They need to see they can also benefit from the large India relationship.

It is up to them if they want to suffer later.



10-15 years Army rule and then short term civilian government this is the politics of Pakistan. But looks like this term of civilian rule will be longer as previous ones. So the trend is changing. Next year and the next elections will be crucial. They will decide whether army comes back or not.
 

Compersion

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Iran will build the bomb no doubt. Not today but tomorrow.

The famous quote by then the deputy director of CIA , Vernon walter said, "either Zia "did not know the facts" or was the "most superb and patriotic liar I have ever met..."

Because Zia constructed ''nuclear opacity'' for their nuclear program. And on visit to US, he had promised that Pak will not go for the bomb. But he lied. He also said that if India signs NPT, we will sign it too. But then it was not trusted by India.

Later Zia made contacts with China and sent weapon grade fuel to them , to enhance Chinese nuclear project and also built centrifuges there. Which some how helped him to reduce international attention on Pakistan and shift it towards China and Syria.

Since then they have been fooling the world bust still manage to get support because west also has to balance India. And right now we have similar opportunity to balance China. But cautiously not like Pakistan.

10-15 years Army rule and then short term civilian government this is the politics of Pakistan. But looks like this term of civilian rule will be longer as previous ones. So the trend is changing. Next year and the next elections will be crucial. They will decide whether army comes back or not.

Good reply and also important points you mention. Only adding to the flavor:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...tistan-into-Pakistan/articleshow/48001651.cms

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-residents-of-pok-would-love-to-join-india-muslim-cleric-2033494

The chairman of Anjuman Minhaj-e- Rasool, an Islamic organisation working for peace and communal harmony, today said that if given a chance the residents of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) would love to join the Union of India. "If a plebiscite is held in the Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, more than 99 per cent people there would vote to become a part of the Union of India," Anjuman Minhaj-e-Rasool chairman Maulana Syed Athar Dehlavi told reporters here. (There was a better article on Times of India cannot locate it - since I don't like this 99% but the merits and environment around it is more significant that toi touched upon more).

Also:

What about other parts of territory to west of India ... Pakistan does not get and will not get chance(s) to cross that normal threshold in such a environment like they are having where there is support for them (yep from India)... they must understand the facts and act if they want for their own interests That first Paki civilan government that had completed its full term (first time in Paki history) no one talks about role and support from and of India :nono: Also the image destruction that Paki Armed forces had before the Zardari government came in is fresh in the peoples mind. Therefore it would be sensible for Pakistan to worry the next direction if there is no normality. Normality for Pakistan is not Communist Party of Pakistan !!

Also adding a little point on Iran. If Iran builds the bomb it will reason that on Pakistan having tested ... If Pakistan does not have the nuclear status (it has now) it will make strong reason for Iran not to test and not have a bomb. Iran will say "why does Pakistan ..." That is a fact and everyone knows it. And Israel is on the passports of Pakistan.




Please get some of these beauties :india2::india2::india2::india2::india2: and have the Indian flag(s) by people to be shown in pictures and clearly taken in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir which is a fact.
 
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Bangalorean

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Last year, some hotshot Paki came up with a much larger figure. He said that Dard-E-Zeb cost them $100 billion or something. :pound:

Pakis, please make up your minds. When you pull figures out of your posterior, at least ensure consistency.
 

Neo

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Last year, some hotshot Paki came up with a much larger figure. He said that Dard-E-Zeb cost them $100 billion or something. :pound:

Pakis, please make up your minds. When you pull figures out of your posterior, at least ensure consistency.
The total loss Pakistan sufrred from WoT iis around that figure. He must have mixed up the figs.
 

Bangalorean

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The total loss Pakistan sufrred from WoT iis around that figure. He must have mixed up the figs.
And could you please link me to some article which substantiates the $100+ billion dollar loss from WoT? With economic criteria and calculations.

Make sure the article accounts for positive cash inflow also, due to regular payouts to Pakistan by US under Kerry-Lugar bill, all the F-16s (which would have otherwise been sanctioned out of Pakistan's reach had you not cooperated in WoT).

If anything, WoT has been a boon for Pakistan. Terrorism in Pakistan would have reached its zenith anyway, WoT or no WoT, after India began sealing its Kashmir borders and the Jihadis being churned out in Pakistani camps had nowhere else to go.
 

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