Just to be clear, I'm not an anti vaxxer or CoviD denier by any means but what my personal experience (and that of my triple jabbed colleagues) has taught me is to take pharma claims of 96% vaccine efficacy against symptomatic infections (Pfizer's claim in relation to booster doses which forms the basis of the entire booster programme in the West) with a huge ladle of salt and to question the rationale for the aggressive rollout of mRNA vaccines among the young and children where the risk benefit assessment does not appear to support this currently. I also feel some of the legitimate concerns about mRNA vaccines are being suppressed or ignored (I have some personal experience of this too in the form of a sustained 20% elevation in resting HR as measured by my Garmin watch, the best in the business, since receiving the booster. This would be consistent with some cardiac injury which I hope isn't permanent) when some mythical adverse event linked to Astra Zeneca vaccine, the only one sold on a not for profit basis, was weaponised to destroy it's reputation in the West (despite it being the most widely used vaccine in the world) to clear the market for its competitors.Welcome to the minority population who still have fresh eyes and who don't say, "Assholes, get vakshed"! This minority group still remains "scientific" in its outlook. The good thing about this minority group is that they are not bound to any country, ethnicity or political leanings. They are just scientific
Whatever you are saying now with very proper decorum backed by your personal experience was also said by a profile named "DonkeysAss" a little ago... I don't know may be 10 pages or 20 pages or 50 pages back. He was banned!
People NOT only on this forum BUT also all over the world refused to even listen (not accept) what scientists like Rober Malone or Luc Montagnier had to say. That was expected because people like to listen to their favourite media and guess what, media tells what makes it profitable. So....... we are where we are!
It's nice to see "here2where" at least asked some questions....
Very nice. Everybody should ask questions and verify / search on their own! If that's NOT the case, education might have ruined the scientific nature!
Now here is thing that majority of people say and that confounds me. These people are highly educated and they work in Govt/ private labs, so we can't actually call them "coolie" either. LOL. These fellows jump at the speed of light to say that the vakshed folks are the saviours of humanity and the un-vakshed fellows are the root-cause of spread and mutation of the vairus. I wonder whether these fellows even read biology books when they were 16 years old. The basics of vakshination and mutation tell otherwise. At least that's what I learnt when I was young. And that's what Robert malone or Luc Montagnier say!
These majority people don't even realize that none in India is anti-vaksh. We all took vaksh when we were young. They are so deep in their wisdom that they never questioned themselves why some fellows (the 15% minority) did not take this new mRNA tech vaksh. So, this is the power of the media and the majority driven by the media.
As far as I am concerned, (THE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE STARTS HERE- WARNING- NO THEORY, NO MEDiA, NO POLITICS, ONLY PURE EXPERIENCE):
1) I know a guy who did NOT take the vaksh. He went everywhere to mingle with people. All whom he mingles with are doing fine. Two were down with the vairus for 15 days but they recovered (These two were small business owners).
2) I know another "highly educated" guy who is highly main-stream and who was highly pro-vaksh. Once I engaged him in a little discussion (after all, he is a friend!). So, he came like Shaheen afridi in last T-20 WC and claimed that the non-vakshed fellows are spreading the diasease. Then i played with him wearing kid-gloves for 30 minutes and now he says that he would not give any vaksh (ie emerging-tech new-era vaksh) to his child The good thing is that I never told him anything opposing him, I just asked him questions and he did NOT have answers Another thing is that since he had decent IQ, he could actually listen to the questions and process them! LOL.
Finally, please, don't make uneducated claims that new variants are coming due to unvakshed fellows. Kindly use your brain. If the original vairus comes in an unvakshed body, it will find NO reason to mutate. BUT if the same vairus comes in vakshed body, it MUST mutate to survive. THIS IS CALLED "Basics or Fundamentals"
BOTTOM-LINE:
I had no intention to come and gate-crash into the main-stream party here BUT when I saw temujin is writing based on his own experience backed by his own findings, I felt compelled to write for tha sake of science.
To @LurkerBaba :
Kindly allow the non-mainstream fellows to explain what they think/ do/ see / experience etc. We know we are the vairus here but if we are NOT here, YOUR whole community loses the "genetic diversity". Please educate your trigger-happy admins too, they work like danda-wallah traffic police on the streets when it comes to any different views on this thread! I don't blame them because most of them lack the education to process things in a fast moving technology (ie Genetic Engineering)!
Baba, I am NOT writing answers to questions in a school exam here, so I don't make the writing water-tight.
See Baba, we know about probability. So now let's take out both my biology teacher and the best virologist from the conversation for next 10 minutes. It's just YOU and me, OK-K?
So, thanks a LOT for your revie comment. Please review again:
"If the original vairus comes in an unvakshed body, the chances are significantly less that it will find reasons to mutate than the chances of a bhairus mutating in a vakshed-body".
And Finally, neither my science teacher NOR the best virologists claim to know why mutation happens!! Mutation is called the exception to the rules of evolution when mutation happens without any change in the environment! Scientists can't explain that.
Still do you think your statement is fully correct?"If the original vairus comes in an unvakshed body, the chances are significantly less that it will find reasons to mutate than the chances of a bhairus mutating in a vakshed-body".
lmao, people know how mutation happens. It’s error in the copying of gen code. Just like storage in hard drives; or memory in ram. Some bit somewhere randomly flipped state during the copy process. The probability of mutation exponentially increases with the number of replicas the virus creates. So a two month Covid = recipe for mutations. A 3 day Covid has much less chance of mutations. Vaccines give you 3 day Covid, not two month Covid “long Covid”Baba, I am NOT writing answers to questions in a school exam here, so I don't make the writing water-tight.
See Baba, we know about probability. So now let's take out both my biology teacher and the best virologist from the conversation for next 10 minutes. It's just YOU and me, OK-K?
So, thanks a LOT for your revie comment. Please review again:
"If the original vairus comes in an unvakshed body, the chances are significantly less that it will find reasons to mutate than the chances of a bhairus mutating in a vakshed-body".
And Finally, neither my science teacher NOR the best virologists claim to know why mutation happens!! Mutation is called the exception to the rules of evolution when mutation happens without any change in the environment! Scientists can't explain that.
"I don't think, either your biology teacher or the best biologist/virologist will subscribe to the above statement."@ladder
You said: "I don't think neither your biology teacher nor the best biologist/virologist will subscribe to the above statement."
Double negative makes it positive. Please review YOUR own statement
"So, although mutations raising due to more vaccinations is a concern but advantage is that a vaxxed body doesn't give the virus more time to replicate and mutate against the innate immunity."So, although mutations raising due to more vaccinations is a concern but advantage is that a vaxxed body doesn't give the virus more time to replicate and mutate against the innate immunity.
Yes"I don't think, either your biology teacher or the best biologist/virologist will subscribe to the above statement."
Is it now correct bro?
PLA spies are NOT as good as me in English I sometimes leave the errors in English deliberately because this is NOT an examare you sure u aren’t a PLA spy trying to mislead with misinformation
And why did I only object to a single statement from your long original post?"So, although mutations raising due to more vaccinations is a concern but advantage is that a vaxxed body doesn't give the virus more time to replicate and mutate against the innate immunity."
So, now we are on a middle-ground
It's not "mutations raising" but "mutations rising" - I know from previous experience that YOU are a very knowledgable guy... just knitpicking here
Here my data/ prediction is:
So-called mutations will keep coming:
1) There is an area with 93% vakshination in spain which comes under British Admin. They are still doing lockdown.
2) Israel was more than 80% vakshinated last i checked (months back), they are still clue-less apparently.
3) In Germany, more than 80% of adult people are vakshed. YOU know what's happening here.
So, it depends on which vaksh YOU want, what YOUR profile is and as an educated logical person if YOU have right over YOUR own body.
The govt decisions in EU/USA/NZ/AUS are pointing towards another direction. Here politics is getting mixed with business and science. A very deadly cocktail indeed! That's what @temujin and I are raising here.
We are NOT against anyone taking any vaksh or anything else in this whole world; we want our own rights over our own bodies. I am NOT going to tell YOU what YOU will do with YOUR body because YOU are educated. The expectation is YOU (and by extension the world govts) will respect our decisions too.
But the mainstream media is crushing us- the scientific minority!
Finally, do YOU know about Barfani baba? Do YOU know what he said much before the bhairas came? (I can't find that video on YT anymore)
Also i guess, YOU know that CIA practises "remote viewing" by psychic fellows (means low level Yogis with siddhi)?
YOU only know!And why did I only object to a single statement from your long original post?
Kindly go there. Spread scientific knowledge. Debate is most welcome in any educated prosperous society.I don't want to go into mrna vs virus vector vs inactivated/killed virus vaccine debate.
That's the problem. Please welcome debate NOT against me because I will NOT have prolonged posts here anyway, debate among YOURselves to increase YOUR own knowledge!I am against vaccine and no vaccine debate. Atleast among adults. Leave out children for the moment.
In India, none is an anti-vasker. As i said earlier, we all took well-tested vaskins when we were Young. This modern tech vaskins are given with "emergency usage" laws/ protocols. That's why GoI does NOT make any new era vaskin mandatory. We are following the directives of GoI! Now please have a thorough discussion on why the agressive roll-out of "emergency vaskins".Any debate atleast in India where the co-vaccine and covishield is available, which would find a resonance with anti-vaxxers is unwelcome.
According to ancient Indian tradition, YOUR freedom starts only after YOU allow a debate, do a purba-paksha and then defeat the opponent debaterAnd 'your freedom ends where my nose begins'. Epidemic Laws too follow the above principle. Public indecency law too follows the above principle. But one has biological underpinning the other societal.
Where did the original bhairas originate?Secondly, be it Israel Spain or many others high vaxxed countries, how many variants of concern originated there (after high percentage of vaccinations)? And why only few variants are termed as variants of concern?
Ask the same question for low vaccination countries.
That's a promise, Dear Saar.The premise of mRNA vaccine was quicker adaptibility to mutated virus. But have the manufacturers of those vaccine incorporated diverse virus genome after initial vaccine came about? If answer is no, don't blame the technology but the profiteering mindset of the companies.
Well, I would rather take chance with flu given my profile and health issues. I have many known issues that will be (chances are very high!) aggravated by vaskin, as the vaskin procedure itself shows and asks people to avoid vaskin if they have certain conditions Saar. So, where is YOUR freedom now?Thirdly, mutations will be present, influenza virus still mutates and flu kills. But, we will be back to the debate, why covid is no flu. But, we want to give 'everyone' a chance till it ( covid) becomes a flu.
Debate or Fight! LOLGet vaccinated. The overwhelming evidence is that vaccine greatly minimizes risk of infection, and for breakthroughs, reduces the severity and probability of death.
By getting vaccinated you help yourself, help your community by being 1 less patient in the ICU, and your country and the World by minimizing the opportunity for Covid-19 virus to mutate.
@asianobserve, as our bro @Hijibiji is taking leave for atleast a quarter of the year, you have sufficient time to decide about, whether to 'Debate or Fight!'.Debate or Fight! LOL
Not exactly that but there's one article,If anyone comes across news regarding the use of plasma therapy in South Africa, do post it here.
testing an observation that plasma therapy and new “dangerous” mutations are linked.
yes, aware that mutations are natural part of a virus’s journey thru a population with or without plasma therapy.
Recently icddr,b conducted a study where they tested 57 samples in the third week of March and found that over 80 percent of patients were infected with the South African variant.
"These results suggest that individuals previously infected with WT [Wuhan] SARS-CoV-2 might only be partially protected against infection with B.1.351 [South African] and P.1 [Brazillian] variants of SARS-CoV-2," the study added
However, the study said, "Seven out of nine plasma samples inhibited entry driven by the S [spike] proteins of the B.1.351 [South African] and P.1 [Brazillian] variants less efficiently as compared to entry driven by WT [Wuhan] S protein.
The limitation of the study was that instead of a live virus, they used a "pseudotype" which "faithfully mimics key aspects of SARS-CoV-2 entry into cells [...] and antibody-mediated neutralisation".
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