Wonder weapons announced by Putin

Armand2REP

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GDP by PPP is a better comparison then nominal GDP.
In such a globalisation is it really accurate to compare PPP? If you go to the bank with PPP currency they won't even serve you.
 

Bahamut

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I know what it is. I think the weapons of Russia are not so cheap when Su-57 costs $100 million. Simple fact is when they cram the capabilities of their Western counterparts they cost the same.
Russia has defences sector industry the main aim of these weapons is to get contract from other states. For eg. Look at hgv, making it require new material which also have applications in space technologies .
 

Armand2REP

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Russia has defences sector industry the main aim of these weapons is to get contract from other states. For eg. Look at hgv, making it require new material which also have applications in space technologies .
Look at what Russia is charging India par example, Talwar now costs $775 million when it was $300 million. FGFA would cost over $100 million and they want $6.7 billion for the first four prototypes. To buy MKI follow on orders is now $75 million when it was $40 million. Even the T-90 has doubled in cost.
 

Armand2REP

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I think Trump is trying to pull a Reagan on China. Outspend them in military and break the economic back of the country trying to keep up.
 

nongaddarliberal

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We sorely need such long range systems more for conventional strikes than nuclear. China is in a position to target almost all the infrastructure in north India from Tibet. We on the other hand do not have the ability to do so to the main Han core in eastern China. Even if Nirbhay becomes active it only has a range of around 1000 km, so maximum it can be launched at chinese cities from warships after crossing the malacca strait. I would really like to see 3000-4000 km range cruise missiles with a supersonic final phase. That wpuld allow us to target their major cities from our mainland. I think I remember having this discussion with @Screambowl during the Doklam drama. We both came to the same conclusion that Most of our major cities and towns in north India were within the range of their cruise missiles but only one small town in China was within the range of ours, IF nirbhay becomes active.
 

prohumanity

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So This catch up game by Russia, China and India is indicating what direction the World will take in the future.
Putin is for a multi polar global system where several big powers jointly make major decisions. Therefore, he is willing to share his very high tech weapons with China and India..BOTH.
In today's world, military power of many big nations will reach to a point that no one can even dream to attack any of these Mega Nations. What is next ? Who wins the economic race and which nation brings most prosperity to its citizens ? Traditional Wars will become OBSOLETE.
For India, its time to trade will ALL nations ..including China and Russia !
 

spikey360

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According this map, Russia ‘s economy is just this :

View attachment 23588

I do hope India’s economy is bigger than Benelux ?!

I think Elon Musk can deliver faster than Russia.
I don't see Benelux having a nuclear bomb, neither do I see a cruise missile developed in Benelux, nor a fifth gen fighter jet.
Money is real power as long as you are not into war. After you go into war, money becomes secondary, it is men, arms, food and availability of other natural resources which decide the victor.
If only money mattered, then China is the most powerful nation, but it is nowhere near to that, is it?
 

spikey360

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Unfortunately Russia is a superpower only when it comes to the Military. As far as economic strength is concerned it is becoming a client state of China. I had witnessed this first hand in my stay in Russia. If you go outside Moscow or St. Petersburg, any new investment or industrial construction has chinese money all over it. Regions like Buryatya and Tuva are almost entirely dependent on chinese investment and trade. Mandarin is becoming the most popular foreign language in Russia and is overtaking demand for English classes. Russia is firmly in the Chinese camp and won't be a balancing force against it in either Central Asia or East Asia. They will only act against America, in military spheres.

Overall this whole situation is unfortunate. It is in India's best interests if Russia and America improve their relations and Russia and China maintain a little distance. And this could have happened of the American deep state didn't sabotage Trumps plan to do exactly that.
You have a very valid point there.
Chinese money is strewn everywhere in Asia.
It is unfortunate that we have still not learned to co-habitate with the Chinese even after all these years like the Russians have.
US and India are not natural allies. But India-Russia-China could have been. Unfortunately our myopic policy masters are always salivating at the thought of shaking hands and hugging yankee whiteskin. Hence we end up disappointing our true friend Russia, and our potential friend China.
Personally, I am for China-India neutrality pact, if not a friendship pact. These two powers living side by side for millennia should co-operate for a better world, not compete. However, the powers that be always thought otherwise. I also do not understand why after all these decades we are yet to resolve the border issues with China, especially since we have not exchanged bullets after 1967.
We should have no qualms in facing the truth. The truth is that India can never catch up with China in terms of economic development. They have truly outperformed the whole world in this category. It is no use, we might as well make peace with the facts.
I for one would not like to fight the Chinese if another world war breaks out. Would you?
 

charlie

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After the disclosures, Russia has regained its superpower status. The world is Bipolar again.
It is high time we choose sides, because even the most advanced US systems seem obsolete now.
And you think US does not hide their systems ?
 

nongaddarliberal

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You have a very valid point there.
Chinese money is strewn everywhere in Asia.
It is unfortunate that we have still not learned to co-habitate with the Chinese even after all these years like the Russians have.
US and India are not natural allies. But India-Russia-China could have been. Unfortunately our myopic policy masters are always salivating at the thought of shaking hands and hugging yankee whiteskin. Hence we end up disappointing our true friend Russia, and our potential friend China.
Personally, I am for China-India neutrality pact, if not a friendship pact. These two powers living side by side for millennia should co-operate for a better world, not compete. However, the powers that be always thought otherwise. I also do not understand why after all these decades we are yet to resolve the border issues with China, especially since we have not exchanged bullets after 1967.
We should have no qualms in facing the truth. The truth is that India can never catch up with China in terms of economic development. They have truly outperformed the whole world in this category. It is no use, we might as well make peace with the facts.
I for one would not like to fight the Chinese if another world war breaks out. Would you?
Peace with China is not possible because the Chinese dont want it. Supporting Masood Azhar, providing nukes to Pakistan, blocking India's NSG bid, threatening to break away North East India, encircling us in our neighbourhood, these are all Chinese unilateral actions. This is a long game against India to keep us down and weak, as it does not want another strong global power in Asia. India did not do anything to provoke these actions. It is only after all of these things took place that India has hardened its stand against China. I agree we will never match them economically. But we dont need to. We just need to defend our territory and interests from them. That only requires a conventional deterrent and a good economy, not complete economic and military parity.
 

spikey360

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And you think US does not hide their systems?
Yes, they probably do.
But MAD requires that each side reveal their cards, else the whole balance falls apart and one side begins to think a first strike debilitating attack is possible and winnable.
I hope the USA does not want that to happen. If they possess similar technologies, they should reveal it as well, else risk a nuclear war.
 

spikey360

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Peace with China is not possible because the Chinese dont want it. Supporting Masood Azhar, providing nukes to Pakistan, blocking India's NSG bid, threatening to break away North East India, encircling us in our neighbourhood, these are all Chinese unilateral actions. This is a long game against India to keep us down and weak, as it does not want another strong global power in Asia. India did not do anything to provoke these actions. It is only after all of these things took place that India has hardened its stand against China. I agree we will never match them economically. But we dont need to. We just need to defend our territory and interests from them. That only requires a conventional deterrent and a good economy, not complete economic and military parity.
Agreed. China continues to needlessly needle us.
A country which could take the leadership role between the trio of RIC is Russia, but somehow and for whatever reason, it may be, Putin is continuing to play second fiddle to China, as far as the RIC block is concerned. Maybe because the primary focus for Putin is now the USA and not the unity of RIC.
Whatever the case may be, China continues to disappoint.
...........................
 

Bahamut

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Look at what Russia is charging India par example, Talwar now costs $775 million when it was $300 million. FGFA would cost over $100 million and they want $6.7 billion for the first four prototypes. To buy MKI follow on orders is now $75 million when it was $40 million. Even the T-90 has doubled in cost.
India now goes deal involving life cycle cost , this include things like training, spares and localisation of components plus there is inflation. Hence cost increasing plus there is change in Russian defenses doc train from quantity to quality and cost of components increases.
 

Armand2REP

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India now goes deal involving life cycle cost , this include things like training, spares and localisation of components plus there is inflation. Hence cost increasing plus there is change in Russian defenses doc train from quantity to quality and cost of components increases.
Taking MKI as an example, what you get now is no different than years ago. The indigenous supply chain has long been established. There is no Super 30 upgrade included in this cost. This is flyaway cost, no support contracts included. I will digress to inflation but it is not possibly that high.
 

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