Why Tejas Mk2 (MWF) Will Be Important

[HariPrasad-1]

They were most likely feeding us wrong data, or the J-20 may have been facing away...Overconfidence is the last thing we need.

If MWF (officially to have semi-stealth) has RCS less then 0.1m² then it should be able to close in & take on a J-20 in WVR combat.

Yes ofcourse.......................

 

[Steven Rogers]

They were most likely feeding us wrong data, or the J-20 may have been facing away...Overconfidence is the last thing we need.

If MWF (officially to have semi-stealth) has RCS less then 0.1m² then it should be able to close in & take on a J-20 in WVR combat.

Sorry to bust your bubble,but that rcs cant be achieved by a non stealth design.

 

[IndianHawk]

Sorry to bust your bubble,but that rcs cant be achieved by a non stealth design.

What is RCS of rafale and what about using spectra suite to reduce RCS?
Mwf can also use active waveform cancellation?

How effective are these measures?

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[Steven Rogers]

What is RCS of rafale and what about using spectra suite to reduce RCS?
Mwf can also use active waveform cancellation?

How effective are these measures?

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

When you use these words "radar cross section" you are calling for the passive stealth which is achieved by the shaping,rafale's spectra is used only when radar operations are not happening that is in totally defensive state which is another mission than what a stealth aircraft does. These measures are most effective when a stealth aircraft is using this, the total power requirement to generate waveform will be lesser than what on non stealth platform. They reduce rcs when on operations not everytime.....
In bw a good journal on the same....
https://www.nal.res.in/en/publicati...e-phased-array-in-hostile-probing-environment

 

[Bleh]

Sorry to bust your bubble,but that rcs cant be achieved by a non stealth design.

Tejas is already quite stealthy...
If they say MWF could reach the level of Rafale or FGFA in RCS, I'll take their word over yours.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Why Tejas Mk2 (MWF) Will Be Important

Written by: Vipul Dave
Date: February 12, 2019


Indian CRPF convoy hit by Pakistan trained terrorist with huge explosive killing more than 40 Jawans. India warned retaliation and preparation of air raid begun. India struck LET terrorist camp with laser guided bombs and eliminated hundreds of Terrorists, their trainers, ISI people and Pakistani Military officers and JEM commanders including family members of JEM chief Masood Azahar. .

Once again Indian Airforce Choose 4 decade old Mirage 2000 for the mission inspite of having state of art planes like Sukhoi MKIs, Mig 29 etc. This shows how important the plane is. It is very much relevant even today with upgrades in electronic inspite of new fighters entering the service. India used the same plane in bombing Kargil height inspite of having MKIs, Jaguars and Mig 29s. This shows How important the plane is.

The question here is what makes Mirage 2000 so special. Why it is a weapon of Choice of Indian army even after 4 decades. What after Mirage 2000 and its substitute once Mirage 2000 retires. These questions needs consideration.

Mirage 2000 is a medium weight fighter with Maximum takeoff weight of over 17 tons and payload of over 5 tons. It is upgraded with state of art electronics and one of the best BVR Mica. It has a high Instantaneous turn rate to fire missile first in case of conflict. It has a highly reliable engine and top speed in excess of Mach 1.8. All this makes it a weapon of choice for Indian air force. Now what next after Mirage 2000?

Actually, when India floated a tender of MMRCA tender, they wanted something like Mirage 2000 . When India made Tejas, India wanted to build something like Mirage 2000 and they build in many qualities of Mirage 2000 in Tejas. However, Tejas, because of its small size and comparatively low powered engine could not become a MMRCA like Mirage 2000 and Indian air force wanted something bigger and better. HAL and DRDO offered Tejas Mk2 with higher thrust engine and bigger in size Tejas Mk2. After many speculations published and contradictory reports surfaced, Tejas Mk2’s design was finally revealed before Aero India 2019. It is a highly impressive design meeting so many requirements of Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA).

Design and Specification:

Tejas Mk2 also known as Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) looks very much similar to Tejas Mk1. However the main differences are prolonged fuselage. The overall length of Tejas Mk2 is 14.7 meter from increased from 13.2 meter in Tejas Mk1. While studying the aerodynamics and its constrains in Tejas Mk1, it was observed that it was unable to comply to Area ruling because of short length. So it was decided to take care of this concern of Tejas Mk1 by increasing the length. Other aerodynamic issues such as elevating canopy, redesigning pylon, putting short range missile on wing tip etc is freezed in Mk2 design. All this will reduce aerodynamic drag and will improve transonic acceleration by a very good margin.

The constrains of limited seven hand points in Mk1 is addressed very satisfactorily by providing 11 hand points . The payload of 3.8 tons is increased to 6.5 tons. All concerns of Mk1 are not only addressed but user Indian air force's expectations are surpassed.

Another noticeable change is addition of canards for handling at low speed and short take off etc. In my opinion, these changes are made so that designers may not have to work very hard on naval LCA Mk2 and Air force MWF may relatively easily be converted into naval Tejas Mk2.

Another big issue which is addressed is increasing fuel capacity from 2.5 tons to 3.3 ton which will give it a big boost in ferry range and combat radios. Supersonic fuel tanks are also developed. It offers a big fuel capacity with minimum addition of drag. This will further add to range and mission capability to carry out operation in large geographical area.

The another most important change will be the replacement of current GE 404 engine with higher power GE 414 IN6 engine. Tejas Mk2 will have GE 414 IN6 engine with some 60 KN + dry and 98 KN wet thrust engine which will give Tejas Mk2 and ability to carry more load and faster speed. It will be a fully home grown plane with American engine which may be replaced by K10 in future.

Tejas Mk2 is not a stealth but it is designed for very Low RCS. Its “Y” duct intake conceals engine totally. There has been a lots of simulation to put canard on right place. External body in now more than 90% made of composite material giving it low weight low RCS and low weight. RAM paint developed for AMCA shall find its application in TEJAS Mk2 to further add to its stealth character.

After building huge inventory of heavy category fighter like SU 30 MKI and developing light weight Tejas MK1, Entire focus of India is now centered on acquiring medium weight fighter like Rafale or other MMRCA. Tejas Mk2 is a surprising sweet option which has emerged for Indian air force.

Radar, Infrared track and search system and electronic warfare:

This area is also got a big boost. New Uttam AESA radar will have much higher range than current MMR and it will virtually be Jam proof. It will replace Israeli ELTA 2052 radar in Tejas Mk2. BEL has started work on development of Infrared track and search system which will go into Tejas Mk2. This will give Tejas a great capability to see enemy even without putting its AESA radar on to keep its presence secrete. An Israeli company is already short listed to co-develop electronic warfare suite. Same suite for Mig 29 is already been developed. Development of EW suite for Tejas Mk2 is unlikely to face any challenge. Missile approach warning system is already been developed which will go into Mk2. Sensor fusion is a gray area and yet much clarification has not come.

Weapons:

Tejas Mk2 will come with huge weapon load of 6.5 tons. Designers have already surpassed all expectation of IAF by providing 11 hand points and some of them may be used with multiple hangers carrying two missile of each one. This is a combination of huge payload and huge number of hand point will give this plane an extraordinary flexibility to carry any sort of mission with missiles or bombs and strike a target far away.

During exercise Gagan Shakti, Tejas proved its ability to bomb targets with high Precision. Bombing and its accuracy is already been proved and it is a proven capability of Tejas Mk1 which will go into Tejas Mk2. It has Impressed Indian air force winning lots of admiration from senior IAF officers. India has already developed glide bomb of 100 KM range with which enemy positions can be attacked from far away. India’s own smart area airfield weapon can strike runways from 100 km away and make runways useless.

R 73 and derby missiles are already tested from Tejas Mk1. Python was also tested from Tejas Mk1 but it was found a bit unsuitable. Home grown Astra Mk1 with 80 KM range is already been tested and integrated with Sukhoi 30 MKI. This will go into Mk1 as well as Mk2. There are in talks with France to integrate Meteor with Tejas. France is ready to do that provided the Radar is Indian and not Israeli. With arrival of desi Uttam AESA radar, the way to integrate Meteor will clear. Meanwhile India has done few successful tests of her indigenous solid fuel duct ramjet engine missile which will have about 130 to 150 KM rage some 30 KM lesser than meteor. If either of the two goes into Tejas Mk2, they will be more than a match for enemies of India for decades to come. Meanwhile Israel has offered I derby, the upgraded version of Debby. India is already using Mica of France on Mirage 2000. So India has a great flexibility and multiple options to integrate missile and other weapons on Tejas Mk2 like no other nation has with options of Russian, Israeli, European, French and Indian weapons.

DRDO has already tested anti-radiation missile with more than 100 KM range so as SAAW. This will give Tejas MK2 an additional punch which its competitors are lacking. Tejas will have enviously high weapon choices not available to any of the plane of its class. It will simply outsmart any other plane in the area of weapons.

BVR and WVR engagements:

Tejas with more powerful engine, improved aerodynamic will be much faster though not as fast as Russian planes like Sukhoi 30, Sukhoi 57 and Mig 29 but will outmatch most and its competitors and match F 16 in speed. With low wing loading and higher thrust to weight ratio, Tejas Mk2 will be a great dog fighter which will outmatch all its competitors including F 16 exclusive of Chinese Sukhoi 30s and Sukhoi 35s. However, here is a catch. Tejas with a very small frontal RCS of 0.1 Sq m to 0.2 Sq. meter and top class AESAS radar will see them first and will shoot them with either Meteor, SFDR, Atsra or derby which are very long range missiles.

Against its Pakistani counterparts like JF 17 block 3 or F16, Tejas Mk2 will be more than a match. With very low Frontal RCS and powerful Radar like either ELTA 2052 or Uttam, it will be able to see these planes more than 100 KM away which shall be atleast 30 KH higher than those planes can see Tejas Mk2 even with AESA radar Installed on them. Tejas Mk2 will lock and shoot JF 17 or F 16 from a distance of more than 120 KM either with METERO or India’s own Solid fuel duct ramjet missile with ultra-long range. With state of art infrared track search system, Tejas Mk2 will be able to track these planes even without using its AESA radars.

In within visible range face off, Tejas Mk2 will easily be able to defeat F 16 with higher T/W ratio, Low wing loading and Canard combo which will give it a great maneuverability. It will have no problem in shooting down F 16 with R 73. Even Mig 21 did it recently. JF 17 does not count and it is futile to compare both the planes.

Conclusion:

Tejas Mk2 is an upgraded version of Tejas MK1 . All shortcomings of Tejas Mk1 are addresses in Tejas Mk2. It will have a very high ferry range, combat radios and a very decent payload. It is designed for High maneuverability unlike some bomb trucks. Tejas Mk2 can do 9/-3.5 g with high AOA. It will have the option to integrate ultra-long range missiles such as METEOR and home grown SFDR . With AESA and ultra long range missile combo, it will have first shoot capability against virtually all planes except few like F 22, F 35 and will match Gripen, Rafale and EFT. This will be a most suitable plane for most of the missions like air raid, BVR combat, Close combat, Close air support, Ground attack etc. With light weight, better aerodynamic, top class weapon and great ground attack capability, this plane will undoubtedly pack a big punch in a single machine. Though this is a single engine plane, it will have the capability of being MMRCA and it will match and even surpass the capability of some contenders of MMRCA like F 16, Mig 35 and Gripen C/D and will match Gripen E in capability. So this is a desi MMRCA at low cost.

Indian airforce which has a great passion for foreign plane has found a new love for this plane in recent time after Tejas Mk1 got FOC. They are ordering Tejas Mk1 in big numbers who used to refuse to consider an order beyond 40. Now they are planning 123 Tejas Mk1 and planning to induct more than 200 Tejas Mk2. Indian navy is also seriously considering to induct Tejas Mk2 with more powerful engine which we shall discuss some in future. The reason is that the capability offered by Tejas Mk2 is irresistible. Tejas Mk2 is a true multirole fighter which has satisfied and surpassed all expectations of Indian air force’s medium weight fighter plane at a very reasonable cost. It has won the heart and mind of Indian air force and Indian air force is unable to resist the capability it has offered.

This article cannot be reproduced without the acknowledgement to writer Vipul Dave

A small correction in above article. SFDR range which was speculated to be around 150 km and same is mentioned in article is now been revealed to be 340 km which is ultra long range. You can virtually shoot down any plane which your radar can detect. Now in BVR combat, radar detection range shall be the bottleneck and not missile range.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Tejas is already quite stealthy...
If they say MWF could reach the level of Rafale or FGFA in RCS, I'll take their word over yours.

Largely unstealthy,and with weapons it will be tracked by the AWACS more than 100 nautical miles away...... Rafale is not an stealthy platform and is not a benchmark for stealth...

 

[IndianHawk]

A small correction in above article. SFDR range which was speculated to be around 150 km and same is mentioned in article is now been revealed to be 340 km which is ultra long range. You can virtually shoot down any plane which your radar can detect. Now in BVR combat, radar detection range shall be the bottleneck and not missile range.

That 340 km range is probably for slow bigger planes like AWACS refuelers and transport.

For fighter jets what will matter is NEZ of sfdr which might match or exceed meteor NEZ.

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[IndianHawk]

When you use these words "radar cross section" you are calling for the passive stealth which is achieved by the shaping,rafale's spectra is used only when radar operations are not happening that is in totally defensive state which is another mission than what a stealth aircraft does. These measures are most effective when a stealth aircraft is using this, the total power requirement to generate waveform will be lesser than what on non stealth platform. They reduce rcs when on operations not everytime.....
In bw a good journal on the same....
https://www.nal.res.in/en/publicati...e-phased-array-in-hostile-probing-environment

Meaning fighters with active waveform cancellation won't be going deep into enemy territory.

They will be using active stealth to hide themselves in a defensive position waiting for enemy aircraft to come near to ambush?

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[HariPrasad-1]

That 340 km range is probably for slow bigger planes like AWACS refuelers and transport.

For fighter jets what will matter is NEZ of sfdr which might match or exceed meteor NEZ.

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True but you can fire it from beyond NEZ also.
Range is range either for big or small target. The radara should be capable of detecting the target and give guidance to missile till its seeker takes on. 340 KM range means missile can travel 340 km. If radar can detect from this range, than missile can be fired.

 

[IndianHawk]

Range is range either for big or small target. The radara should be capable of detecting the target and give guidance to missile till its seeker takes on. 340 KM range means missile can travel 340 km. If radar can detect from this range, than missile can be fired.

Yes missile can travel 340 km . Same way Russian claim S400 can hit 400km away.

In practice though missile loose power continuously and becomes slow at the end of max range which allows agile targets like fighter aircrafts to outrun / evade missile at max range.

Hence the distinction is also important.

But 340 km is still significant as we can shoot down paki / chini AWACS and refuelers rendering their air forces blind and short supplied.

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[HariPrasad-1]

I'm wondering if its better to that MWF is a variant of LCA or MWF is developed from LCA.
Mk1 & 1A are more of light interceptors and ground attack aircrafts like Gripen or Jaguar while Mk2 is more of a fighter like F-16, J10B or Mirage 2000.
I guess MWF Tejas Mk2 should have a separate page on Wikipedia. Should it?

I think it is better to call F16, J 10 and Mirage 2000 a multirole fighter.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Meaning fighters with active waveform cancellation won't be going deep into enemy territory.

They will be using active stealth to hide themselves in a defensive position waiting for enemy aircraft to come near to ambush?

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Nope.... I didnt mean that.... If the coordinates of the target is already with the launch aircraft, the aircraft can very well use the Active radar cancellation and delay detection . However the cancellation also depends upon the source radars, distance and power output of the source radar....

 

[IndianHawk]

Nope.... I didnt mean that.... If the coordinates of the target is already with the launch aircraft, the aircraft can very well use the Active radar cancellation and delay detection . However the cancellation also depends upon the source radars, distance and power output of the source radar....

So we need AWACS and net centric warfare to take full advantage of active stealth of rafale or mwf.

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[Steven Rogers]

So we need AWACS and net centric warfare to take full advantage of active stealth of rafale or mwf.

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With source radar i mean enemy, various aesa sensors are currently under development for the AMCA to perform various actions in terms of EW and 360 degree awareness. Net centricity and awacs are mandatory to extract out full performance of these aircrafts.....MWF and Rafales will be effective but passive stealth cant be ruled out due to the possibility of active stealth and its limitations..... With passive stealth,enemy may never know unless it is too late, with active stealth,they might fail to use their air defense but that wont secure the blackout of the information to the enemy and ultimately they will use their counter measures with the reduced vicinity.... .

 

[HariPrasad-1]

So we need AWACS and net centric warfare to take full advantage of active stealth of rafale or mwf.

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When IFRTS will come in, it will be very easy to track enemy plane and stealth fighters without using radar.

 

[Steven Rogers]

When IFRTS will come in, it will be very easy to track enemy plane and stealth fighters without using radar.

Irst have very small fov and are used as additional sensor to strengthen the track, they are not the primary sensor.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Irst have very small fov and are used as additional sensor to strengthen the track, they are not the primary sensor.

But they are very useful in hiding the radar signatures and detecting stealth or very low radar signature planes.

 

[IndianHawk]

But they are very useful in hiding the radar signatures and detecting stealth or very low radar signature planes.

But irst ranges are very limited. So they can't be used as effectively as radar.

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[HariPrasad-1]

But irst ranges are very limited. So they can't be used as effectively as radar.

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Agreed but the advantage it offers is that it can detect enemy plane without exposing itself. MODERN IFRTS can detect the hit signature from about 100 KM. Most of the Radars can not detect enemy plane with RCS of around 0.1 M2 from that distance. More over stealthier planes like J 20 can be detect by IFRTS before they can be tracked by Radars.