Why India thinks China is an enemy

[cw2005]

I don't believe China would or could become a super power like the current or former ones.

To be a super power, a country needs to be extremely cunning, to lie when you know most people know you are lying, to do whatever necessary to get results, not to care about how people seeing you, and to be really cruel to any one in your way.

Chinese love their face too much and care too much about what people say. This is in their culture, in their blood. One quick look at the Chinese history, one might discover the one killing most of Chinese is Chinese themselves. (Japanese might be a distant second)

So, the proper way to treat a rising China is to leave it alone. The Chinese would fight among themselves in peaceful time. Chinese united together only when there is an external threat.

I remember a proud British had said - "In the 19 Century when Britain was the strongest nation, it conquered much bigger countries such as India with only a few men. But we ganged up with other powers to try it on China and with only very limited success. The Chinese will put up a surprise fight when being threaten from outside."

 

[civfanatic]

I remember a proud British had said - "In the 19 Century when Britain was the strongest nation, it conquered much bigger countries such as India with a only a few men. But we ganged up with other powers to try it on China and with only very limited success. The Chinese will put up a surprise fight when being threaten from outside."

Very limited success? Ever heard of the Opium Wars, or Spheres of Influence? By the end of the 19th century the Qing government barely controlled their own territory.

Both India and China were exploited by the British for their large markets. It was a very dark time for Asia in general, with the notable exception of the Japanese. The Japanese learned that the only way to survive was to beat the white man in his own game!

 

[cw2005]

The Japanese learned that the only way to survive was to beat the white man in his own game!

Agree completely. Indeed, this is what I have been advocating.

Asian should not be manipulated by the whites but united together instead.

I still remember one day when I was watching boxing in the TV and I was surprised to see the Chinese viewers were supporting a Japanese boxer fighting a European boxer. The Chinese viewers turned to support the Taiwanese when the same Japanese boxer later on fighting a Taiwanese one.

In the Chinese forum, I don't see members spreading anti India writings. Many of them actually are admiring the self reliance of India in Military development.

 

[civfanatic]

When I was younger, and even today, I hope for a united Eastern Bloc, consisting of India+China+Russia.

I don't think that is realistic anymore, because of too much conflicts in interest, but everyone has their dreams and I have mine.

 

[amoy]

a united Eastern Bloc, consisting of India+China+Russia.

I recall a wise man called MMS said to the effect "India is too large to get boxed into any alliance"

A "bloc" works mostly when there's a planet, then with many satelites in an orbit about this centre.

 

[cw2005]

There was discussion to form an "EA" similar to the "EU" with China, Japan and Korea as core members. The most important purpose of forming the EA is to avoid East Asian war. Should the EA be formed, it would be a very powerful bloc in the world. I thought I have also come across similar idea in some forums to form a South Asian bloc with India as the core member.

 

[Nonynon]

I don't think the Eastern block idea is unrealistic. I think the disagreements with China and India are solvable and both countries have interest in solving them. But in order to form an Eastern block you will need a common enemy (probably the West) and I find it difficult to see that happening anytime soon, for India atleast.

 

[JustForLaughs]

Very limited success? Ever heard of the Opium Wars, or Spheres of Influence? By the end of the 19th century the Qing government barely controlled their own territory.

Both India and China were exploited by the British for their large markets. It was a very dark time for Asia in general, with the notable exception of the Japanese. The Japanese learned that the only way to survive was to beat the white man in his own game!

opium war 1 led to treaty of nanking and gave Hong Kong to Britain on lease.
opium war 2 led to treaty of tientsin was heavily opening up China for trade, not giving any land or any rule by foreign power.


considering it was against an 8 nation alliance and they still made it to the end of their age without China becoming a colony with most Chinese lands intact id say they did very well compared to others.


according to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unequal_Treaties

unequal treaties start around 1860s. for at least 60 years China was butting heads with the 8 nation alliance. among the most famous, if not the most famous, case of Chinese vs the 8 nation alliance is undoubtedly the Boxer Rebellion (which was also among the last in timeline for unequal treaties).


Boxer Protocol (1901)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Protocol

"The Qing dynasty was by no means defeated when the Allies took control of Beijing. They Allies had to temper their demands they sent in a message to Xi'an to get the Dowager Empress to agree with them, among them was that China did not have to give up any land at all."


they were definitely unequal treaties but Qing was not ruled by any foreign power, ever.

 

[jazzguy]

opium war 1 led to treaty of nanking and gave Hong Kong to Britain on lease.
opium war 2 led to treaty of tientsin was heavily opening up China for trade, not giving any land or any rule by foreign power.


considering it was against an 8 nation alliance and they still made it to the end of their age without China becoming a colony with most Chinese lands intact id say they did very well compared to others.


according to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unequal_Treaties

unequal treaties start around 1860s. for at least 60 years China was butting heads with the 8 nation alliance. among the most famous, if not the most famous, case of Chinese vs the 8 nation alliance is undoubtedly the Boxer Rebellion (which was also among the last in timeline for unequal treaties).


Boxer Protocol (1901)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Protocol

"The Qing dynasty was by no means defeated when the Allies took control of Beijing. They Allies had to temper their demands they sent in a message to Xi'an to get the Dowager Empress to agree with them, among them was that China did not have to give up any land at all."


they were definitely unequal treaties but Qing was not ruled by any foreign power, ever.

You probably forget that China lost far east to Russia, lost Mongolia and almost lost Tibet during this period.

 

[JustForLaughs]

You probably forget that China lost far east to Russia, lost Mongolia and almost lost Tibet during this period.

lol almost. didnt forget, Russia and Mongolia is wrong time frame. despite that i took that into consideration and my statement still stands. Most Chinese land, including 100% of China Proper was retained by Qing, those during its collapse and finally the PRC.

Qing vs European Colonial Powers was vastly more successful in retaining sovereignty and land than others were. Qing also faced 8 nation alliance, not one. however even though Qing was a collapsing dynasty, it had stronger claim than no legit. rule. During civil war/world war 2, that is where its much harder to retain land and cohesion.

none of the lands Qing had but PRC doesnt was part of China proper. even so.

Tajikistan cedes land to China
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12180567

Russia has ceded 174 sq km of territory to China
http://www.hindu.com/2008/07/22/stories/2008072260091300.htm

pretty good for modern times.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

India dont consider or recognize any nation as its enemy. It is the attitude of other nations which make their image as of a foe to India. Secondly, the preparation of a nation for its defences is mostly considered to be aimed at a particular nation being its enemy. India doesnt have any invasion policy so why would it like to create or make enemy.

 

[badguy2000]

lol almost. didnt forget, Russia and Mongolia is wrong time frame. despite that i took that into consideration and my statement still stands. Most Chinese land, including 100% of China Proper was retained by Qing, those during its collapse and finally the PRC.

Qing vs European Colonial Powers was vastly more successful in retaining sovereignty and land than others were. Qing also faced 8 nation alliance, not one. however even though Qing was a collapsing dynasty, it had stronger claim than no legit. rule. During civil war/world war 2, that is where its much harder to retain land and cohesion.

none of the lands Qing had but PRC doesnt was part of China proper. even so.

Tajikistan cedes land to China
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12180567

Russia has ceded 174 sq km of territory to China
http://www.hindu.com/2008/07/22/stories/2008072260091300.htm

pretty good for modern times.

here is the imperial abdicate rescript of Qing House...can somebody else translate it into english and let Indians here learn why Republic of CHina is the legal successor of all territory of Qing empire.

奉旨朕钦奉隆裕皇太后懿旨：

　　前因民军起事，各省相应，九夏沸腾，生灵涂炭，特命袁世凯遣员与民军代表讨论大局，议开国会，公决政体。两月以来，尚无确当办法，南北暌隔，彼此相持，商辍於途，士露于野，徒以国体一日不决，故民生一日不安。今全国人民心理，多倾向共和，南中各省既倡议於前，北方各将亦主张於后，人心所向，天命可知，予亦何忍以一姓之尊荣，拂兆民之好恶？是用外观大势，内审舆情，特率皇帝，将统治权归诸全国，定为共和立宪国体，近慰海内厌乱望治之心，远协古圣天下为公之义。袁世凯前经资政院选举为总理大臣，当兹新旧代谢之际，宜有南北统一之方，即由袁世凯以全权组织临时共和政府，与军民协商统一办法，总期人民安堵，海内刈安，仍合满、汉、蒙、回、藏五族完全领土，为一大中华民国，予与皇帝得以退处宽闲，优游岁月，长受国民之优礼，亲见郅治之告成，岂不懿欤？钦此。
http://baike.baidu.com/view/323500.htm

 

[amoy]

India doesnt have any invasion policy so why would it like to create or make enemy.

but your logo (avatar) augurs another possibility

 

[SHASH2K2]

but your logo (avatar) augurs another possibility

well he is not the policy maker of the country and is just a citizen of India like millions who think same .

 

[Yatharth Singh]

but your logo (avatar) augurs another possibility

You know what, my avatar shows that I support the Axis and the Nazis. I admire Adolf Hitler and Mussollini so whats wrong in that. These are our personal likes and dislikes which ain`t related to the topic. So it will be better if you post something logical.

 

[cw2005]

The best way to "Destroy" an enemy is to make him your friend. That was what European did to Germany. Because they are whites. Now, Do the Asinas have the same willingness to do the same?

 

[Yatharth Singh]

The best way to "Destroy" an enemy is to make him your friend. That was what European did to Germany. Because they are whites. Now, Do the Asinas have the same willingness to do the same?

Didnt got what you are trying to speak about Germany. Are you recalling the events of WW2?

 

[SHASH2K2]

Didnt got what you are trying to speak about Germany. Are you recalling the events of WW2?

I think he is referring to after world war 2 . the way they formed alliance with Germany and are friends now.

 

[cw2005]

I think he is referring to after world war 2 . the way they formed alliance with Germany and are friends now.

Thank you sir, I appreciate your understanding.

After 2 wars, the Europeans want to avoid to go to war with Germany. Forming the EU is one of the "Methods".

But if you look at the situation now, the Strongest nation in Europe and the only one with a balance budget is Germany. The German has come back to the dominating position again.

Will this bring another European war in the future? Not an easy answer right now.

If you are looking at the situation for a longer period, say 100 years, the strongest nation in a region always reclaims the dominating position. It is the Germen in Europe, the Chinese in Far East (challanged by Japanese from time to time), the Indians in Sourth Asia, the Russian in the Middle Asisa and the Americans in America. War or no war depends heavily on how do these powers behave.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Thank you sir, I appreciate your understanding.

After 2 wars, the Europeans want to avoid to go to war with Germany. Forming the EU is one of the "Methods".

But if you look at the situation now, the Strongest nation in Europe and the only one with a balance budget is Germany. The German has come back to the dominating position again.

Will this bring another European war in the future? Not an easy answer right now.

CW2005 I am also a normal member like you are and I am no too old either so you can call me by my name.
coming to the point that you have raised . India and china donot have any historical baggage to hate each other but still unless border disputes are resolved there will not be any long lasting peace or friendship. Problem is that none of country will back down from its position fearing a backlash at home. I agree that no one is friend or foe forever but as of now peace if best option Friendship is far far away.