Why India should join Russian air strikes in Syria

[spikey360]

Sadly, we milked the Soviets in all the way we could, got support in 1971/72 (our greatest victory so far), and even got them to veto for us, and today, during Ukraine crisis, we did not even give any military or humanitarian help to the Donbass militia - not a bullet, not a blanket.

A friend in need is a friend indeed. We are not honourable friends. We take help, but refuse to give even so much in return that would not hurt us.

No wonder Russia treats India purely in business sense.

Agreed. That's very very unfortunate indeed. That too when Modi is PM. This is utterly shameful and unacceptable too.

You(GoI) are doing fancy 'outreach' programs for some God knows what country on the opposite side of the globe, but you cannot even utter some words of support for a friend. Forget Russian Government. Think about the Russian people. USSR may be no more, but the people who lived in USSR are still there in Russia. They do observe that this country whom USSR helped in its days of need, does not even bother about their country now, in its time of need.
Some idiots in India will say, so what? To those idiots I say, the whole world does not consist of illiterates and ignorant people like us Bharatiyas. And Russian people are quite aware of world affairs. They have been through a lot of hardship, their eyes and ears are not as closed as ours or the 'Mericans' are.

 

[spikey360]

@Razor you have raised a valid point about the capability and if I may add, capacity.
The answer to these two questions is uncertain. Capability question cannot be answered without a context/reference. The last war India fought was 1971. Kargil was still only a conflict, not a full fledged war. There were many hiccups and some shortcomings in that conflict, but you really cannot judge the present capability by that alone.
What does India need for a bomb raid?

1. Aircrafts. Yes, we have them. In the numbers required to make an expeditionary bomb raid, without leaving the home-front open to attack. Besides, all the worlds' best AF are already there. We do not need to go there with all our aircrafts anyway.
2. Logistics. The Russians are already there. We stay in Latakia or we don't bomb at all.
3. Money. Yes, we have enough for a bomb raid in Syria. India is not a poor country. The only people poor here are the masses. For whose welfare, and rightly so, the government has to spend tremendous amounts of money. Open the war chest if required. If you(GoI) will not spend money to destroy Islamic terrorism, then what will you spend it for? Repairing Taj and Oberoi after 26/11 part 2? Or will it be for printing those 'dossiers' which will be given to Pakistan? The money excuse is the most worthless excuse of all.
4. Risk Management. So what happens if an Indian jet is shot down, or just crashes? Well, those are the risks of war. It must be carefully judged if this risk is outweighed by the mentioned benefits or not. No pain, no gain. Simple.

 

[pmaitra]

@spikey360,

ISIS is pure evil and should be attacked and defeated. No doubt about it.

As much as I wish India attacked them, we should not get into it with a half-baked plan.

We just cannot say there are risks of war. Yes, there are. However, minimizing risks is part of war planning. The Russians have made elaborate plans, worked out diplomatic agreements with neighbouring countries (Iran, Iraq) for air corridor, and invested time and effort at building up infrastructure to support long term air operations. They also have plans in places to send in their special forces to rescue downed pilots and have elaborate air defense system installed. They have some capable air transporters and navy vessels to support their campaign. They also have efficient long range bombers and their Caspian flotilla to provide additional weight to their campaign.

India has none, and will have to be dependent on Russia for doing anything. Moreover, India does not have easy access to the Syrian coastline. India could carry out operations from Iran, but that would mean going over Iraq, which is a US controlled semi-sovereign state.

If India does go into this, this would be an opportunity to test Indian indigenous weapons. What do we have to test?

 

[spikey360]

@pmaitra Fully agree. Cannot but admire at the Russian ingenuity! These came to light all of a sudden, but in the shadows, everything were being worked, the tapestry being sown.

Coming back to India. Yes, there are a lot of details to be worked out. There are various hurdles to overcome as well. War is no child's play for us. It is pretty serious, and still a life and death situation for us. But, when do we wake up, that is my question? After ISIS attacks India? Or before it?

If India does go into this, this would be an opportunity to test Indian indigenous weapons. What do we have to test?

BRAHMOS! Shiny new Sukhoi 30 MKIs. Some Astra BVRAAMs as well(assuming someone wants to attack us in air from air, if at all).

 

[Razor]

My views on India's moves with regards to the situation mirrors that of pmaitra.

@pmaitra Fully agree. Cannot but admire at the Russian ingenuity! These came to light all of a sudden, but in the shadows, everything were being worked, the tapestry being sown.

Yup, the russians seem to have solid intelligence coming in from their assets like zaslon operatives. They were in close contact with assad's people.
The russian military is able to assess and act on the intelligence and the diplomats are able to iron out problems that come Russia's way because they work together in a group. Their moves are silent and deadly. Even the Americans military brass were surprised at how quickly the russian moved into syria; like they took it out of the "art of war": “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”

All this stems from effective leadership, which india does not have. That is characteristic result when democracy is applied to large nations. Just like Hitler said, “Sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great leader be "discovered" by an election”

But you are right, if india aspires to be a great power, it should start making moves, whether it is ISIS or in central asia, because sitting on the fence will get india no where.

 

[Ancient Indian]

I too want action time.

We are sitting ducks for more than few decades.

Our soldiers used to fight wars all over the world during old days.

And also it will expose all the traitors from our sides.

We are buying too much weapons and do very little.

And also with changing mindsets of Indian people these days, We can reform our country like new boy.

 

[Sameet2]

Yes Indian airforce should dispatch those jihadis to hell as soon as possible and wherever they belong doesnt matter if its in th POK too !

 

[Bahamut]

Better deal them there then to deal with them in India and be sorry after the do a attack and kill innocent.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

So I am guessing your Guru is Owwbama. That explains a lot.. Sadly.

What will India gain, let's see.. I am answering your posers, assuming GoI mirrors your stance

Foolish attitude. This is exactly the reason no one will take India seriously. At least China sent a carrier. What did 'special relationship' India do? A few statements a few years back and that's it? On the contrary, USSR/Russia sent its Nuclear Submarine during 1971, when 'natural ally' America sent warships into Bay of Bengal supporting naPakistan. So much for your 'whatever'.

Sounds like you are a CT expert yourself. Elaborate more on how Air Power is all about blind bombing and knowing nothing about what is down below? Share your expertise with us layman.

Given most of your post is just inane ranting. I will counter last point. Did you suggest putting boots on the ground? No. You want to be a lackey to Russia, who will tell India where to bomb. The way UK is guided by US intelligence on the ground and do as they say and what do we call them- American bitches.

Do you want India to be Russian bitch, who will bomb as master says.

You claim to "don't know", yet you go on blabbering some more. Kargil War was 1999. I imagine half of the people who took part then are already on the verge of retirement, the other half have already been promoted to higher ranks who, now, won't be the first ones to be deployed on the battlefield. In this circumstance, who/what fills the experience gap of the younger bunch? You, General? Can you be more silly?
By your logic, participating in one mountain conflict one can have expeience of all sorts of conflict over time and in all parts of world, under all conditions. Marvelous assessment, master strategist.

Yes. That was real war with Pak's trained army rather than rag-tag bunch of radicals hiding on plains. It had much more difficulty and gave much more lessons to India. The future wars of India if they ever happen with Pak as well as China will be in and around Himalayas. You do not have to go war to keep your soldiers trained especially if it is a rag-tag bunch of jihadis hiding after being bombed by 4 air-forces.

IA has much better CT experience fighting terrorists in Kashmir and North-east. And you want them to reduce to taking command from Russia!!

For your information: Russia have not much money to spare, their economy in dire straits, try reading the newspapers a bit more often, eh?
Agree that we need to fight this war on both fronts. Like Russia is clamping down simultaneously on both home and abroad. Again, try reading the newspaper a bit more.
As for inspiration, if not Pakistan, they can always be inspired by lame ducks like you.

Yes, Russia is stupid so we should become stupid as well. Last time USSR disintegrated when they did not know when to pull out of Afghanistan, which screwed their economy. So much about being logical!!

What an utter fool. So what? Stay in france child. Don't have to think about India. Make some Islamic friends and kiss some Islamic bombs. That would be all.

You sip martini laying on the beach, let the big boys do the thinking, talking and acting, kiddo

Big boys who would love to suck Putin any day sacrificing their homeland's priorities.

And as expected you did not answer what would India add to the bombing when the 4 airforces of the world (equally good or better than India) are already doing their business.

But given that you are a clueless person who would jump on any stupid article, I will quote again:

"India’s entry will be a landmark geopolitical event"

Really. Going to a war just to kiss Putin's ass is a momentous geopolitical event!! Had we entered war with Pak after 26/11 or Parliament attacks, it would have driven the point home to Pakis and their financiers that India has come out of non-violence trap and behaving like a matured nation. This momentous occasion will only prove India is a lackey!! As a Putin's fanboy I understand it is really momentous.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Let's look at the what bombing ISIS might achieve?

Militarily- Almost nothing. India will depend on Russian/US inputs for all the bombings. Given 4 airforces are already operating there, I do not even know how much action India will get.

Strategic- ISIS was created by US, fought by Russia to salvage Assad. India has no reason to be there to clean up other's mess and get caught up into unnecessary alliances.

Geo-political - As some of you want to call it a momentous event. Really!! Do you think bombing rag-tag jihadis on other's intelligence output will make it momentous? It will just show India is a stupid state which would not punish Pak for 26/11 but will go to a random war between US and Russia proxies. India will do much better to send an air-craft career to Maldives and screw them to deliver the message to world that don't mess with India.

Economic- It would be useless to spend on a war where we are not needed. It is not as if we don't have money but military modernization will go a long way in helping India achieve its objectives.

 

[Mad Indian]

Economic- It would be useless to spend on a war where we are not needed. It is not as if we don't have money but military modernization will go a long way in helping India achieve its objectives.

Many idiots think that spending on MIC makes a nation rich. They won't understand that spending on MIC does not make a nation rich but rather it is the rich nations which have a rabust MIC. Also, any resource diverted to MIC is a resource not spent on other govt spending like welfare.


This is another reason why I think Scandinavian countries suck and are not role models for any one- because their military spending is just 1% of their GDP while they spend a lot more on their welfare. Compare that with USA which spends 5% of its GDP on its welfare and still enjoys a much better economy and growth. India , even if it has its own MIC , it would still be a disaster to enter Syria, let alone when we have to fight a war on borrowed weapons.

 

[Mad Indian]

know it is waste of resources&time but if we bomb IS, muzzies will die and Ind muzzies will cry .Because of this reason I Voted YES.

This is a lot more honest than what most putin fanboys here have suggested

 

[Mad Indian]

Russia on the other hand is linked/linking to china because it has no other choice at present. It is absolutely in india's interest to prevent this relationship from blossoming, but apparently the great indian leaders haven't figured this out it seems.
At present Russia has 2 market choices China and India (large populations) but china got most of the deals (in spite of russians prefering indians) Why? Fence sitting by indians.

Wth? Dude, Russians chose China first and not the other way around. Russians have a lot to gain from China compared to Indian this realignment was going to happen eventually.only some of us have gotten to it and some have not. China has more money and a bigger market for Russia than India. If given a choice for unconditional alliance with India or China , , Russia would any day pick China over India . that is the reality.

I see the same with Iran as well.

 

[spikey360]

Geo-political - As some of you want to call it a momentous event. Really!! Do you think bombing rag-tag jihadis on other's intelligence output will make it momentous? It will just show India is a stupid state which would not punish Pak for 26/11 but will go to a random war between US and Russia proxies. India will do much better to send an air-craft career to Maldives and screw them to deliver the message to world that don't mess with India.

I do agree with this part of your post. 26/11 perpetrators must be punished period. It goes without saying that if Modi goes on that mission, he will be remembered in World History, and most importantly in the nightmares of Pakistanis.
However, that does not reduce the gravity of the bomb ISIS argument. And if you think ISIS is a rag-tag group of Jihadis, then good luck, as I said, you are a master strategist. Countries like France and USA should hire you as their advisors.

As for Mad not Indian, I say, get over it boy, Putin is more powerful than you or your lover Izzrael. Your barks, are insignificant. BTW you seem to be fixated with words like ******(in other threads) and a$$, wonder why?

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

However, that does not reduce the gravity of the bomb ISIS argument. And if you think ISIS is a rag-tag group of Jihadis, then good luck, as I said, you are a master strategist. Countries like France and USA should hire you as their advisors.

I still fail to see the gravity of the situation from Indian perspective as I have explained well above.

Feel free to counter the points on why India should get itself into supporting one of US-Russia proxies.

 

[Mad Indian]

As for Mad not Indian, I say, get over it boy, Putin is more powerful than you or your lover Izzrael. Your barks, are insignificant. BTW you seem to be fixated with words like ******(in other threads) and a$$, wonder why?

So even now, your interest in bomding ISIS is to get at Jews and not because it is beneficial to India . did any Nazi fag on storm front tell you that they would make you an honorary impure aryan, if you behave like a Nazi fag, that you are sprouting so much bs to the point of wasting Indian money on Isis just to get at Israel?

And stop being an utter moron too, I completely agree with Russians bombing Syria to stone age. Isis scum need to be dealt with and they need a person(Assad) in power to control the filth there. However, we have nothing to gain from going there ourselves. Get that into your head skin head.


Let the two evils fight each other out - US- sunni coalition vs Russian-Shia coalition. Let's watch with popcorn. Whoever is left after this mess, let's deal with them later.

Frankly, both sides are inimical to indian interest in the long run

 

[spikey360]

I still fail to see the gravity of the situation from Indian perspective as I have explained well above.

Feel free to counter the points on why India should get itself into supporting one of US-Russia proxies.

Read OP. All your questions will be answered, then read all other posts again, if still confused, restart process.

 

[Razor]

Wth? Dude, Russians chose China first and not the other way around. Russians have a lot to gain from China compared to Indian this realignment was going to happen eventually.only some of us have gotten to it and some have not. China has more money and a bigger market for Russia than India. If given a choice for unconditional alliance with India or China , , Russia would any day pick China over India . that is the reality.

I see the same with Iran as well.

Yes, at present China seems like a more natural choice for Russia; India must do its best to break that bond so as to prevent chinese domination of asia.

And on the topic, we know india is not going to go for adventure in syria. But my view is if india has the military assets and capability to do it then in principle it should go for it. I see it as more profitable rather than less. And lets not forget plenty of indians are crypto isis.

 

[Aravind Sanjeev]

India should NOT interfere the geopolitics in Syria. What I think about the whole situation of Syria,

Russia in Syria is just another country with politcal interest.

All the foreign actors involved in Syria are not there for the people, human rights or the democracy. Russia is conducting air strikes in Syria with the permit of al-Assad’s govt. Moscow although maintained that they are going to target extremist groups, their primary target has been the NATO-backed rebels, which are terrorists but the one that the US does not want to be touched. The Russian Syria strikes have their origin at the east Ukrainian conflict. This is basically a trade off for east Ukraine for Russia and al-Assad govt for the US.

The Syrian conflict is no more a conflict of their own but the geopolitical game of the west and Russia. Russia wants to drop sanctions and the stand-off of NATO and Russia in Ukraine and Russia would in return be retreat al-Assad diplomatically. -Something that the US haven't agreed.

The air strikes allow the US to hold negotiations with Russia regarding the faith of al-Assad's govt. It gives Russia a hot seat in the negotiation table. Here the Iran factor comes to play

Iran factor:
Just like Russia, the US and Saudi are in Syria to implement their strategic interest, Iran also has their own strategic interest in the Syrian conflict. Iran has aided financial and technical support for al-Assad's govt. If the US want him out, and Iran wants him in, Russia is the primary friend to do it. Russia's hot seat will allow Iran to implement its strategic interests. This is in the light that Russia lost its large value in their relationship from Iran after the nuclear deal. (Purposeful enough). Influencing Iran's foreign affairs is a crave for the US as well.

Both facts above means Russia want to a negotiation with the US to relieve east Ukrainian issue. Nothing here is of the interest of protecting Syrians, just a geopolitical game. And India always maintained neutrality as the key strategy for such a game

 

[Kharavela]

Wow. So Isis, which has not done anything in India should be targeted by India

ISIS has already issued statements over Kashmir issue. Please check.