Why Google Is Quitting China

tarunraju

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First, all of your arguement is based on the hypothesis that these hackings to Gmail did exist and came from China, which have not been proved yet, but i am not going to rebut that.

Second, hacking into Google's mail service is not part of Chinese censorship. On the contrary, such behavior is illegal in China and will be punished by law if be reported.

Third, which is also the most important one, before Google provide evidence showing Chinese government is involved in these hackings, it is an irresponsible behavior to make accusation that Chinese govenment is related to these mysterious hackings.



Since there is not further statement from Google on this issue, shouldn't they just shut up?

Do you think it is appropriate for media to come out with such a groundless report?

And do you think it is appropriate to take such report as evidence?
Since I'm in a rush, I'll reply this: this is as "groundless" as your claiming it's "just a violation of Chinese laws (not censoring content)", or the Chinese government claiming the same. Since Google hasn't denied any of these reports, nor would it want to come out openly accusing the government of this (risking its operations), it won't give you your "hard evidence" to build a "well grounded report". However sources, analysts, and researchers who are deep into the field and who want to remain anonymous served as sources for these media reports, which come from reputed media houses. Hence I'm inclined to believe Google isn't stupid enough to leave China just because it's not willing to censor. It also tells you that something is a lot more fishy than just a case of not obeying the law. Google is a leading internet firm that operates in the majority of the connected world. When something like this happens you're inclined to take Google at face value.
 
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nimo_cn

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Since I'm in a rush, I'll reply this: this is as "groundless" as your claiming it's "just a violation of Chinese laws (not censoring content)", or the Chinese government claiming the same. Since Google hasn't denied any of these reports, nor would it want to come out openly accusing the government of this (risking its operations), it won't give you your "hard evidence" to build a "well grounded report". However sources, analysts, and researchers who are deep into the field and who want to remain anonymous served as sources for these media reports, which come from reputed media houses. Hence I'm inclined to believe Google isn't stupid enough to leave China just because it's not willing to censor. It also tells you that something is a lot more fishy than just a case of not obeying the law. Google is a leading internet firm that operates in the majority of the connected world. When something like this happens you're inclined to take Google at face value.
But China dismissed that, so what China says does not even matter here?

Hypothetically, Pakistan media reported that India was planning to attack China, by your logic, if China didn't deny that, can i take China's silence as a yes and believe India was going to attack China?

I dont know if you realise how farfetched your arguement is.
 
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Armand2REP

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Nimo, you seem to miss the point. The Fool-u-bureau is not to be believed. It never has been and never will be. They are all about lies and misrepresentations. Communist propoganda cannot be relied upon.
 

nimo_cn

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Let us put aside the credibility of Chinese media here.

How much credibility do you think west media has left in the eyes of Chinese people after they deliberately faked news about what happened during the riot in Tibet?

I read west media's reports about China everyday and i compare those with the reports from Chinese media and with what i see and hear in my personal life. The conclusion i get from my observation is west media never reports China objectviely.
 

Armand2REP

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You want to call the Dalai Lama a seperatist, but he wants no such thing. CCP is the one lying about Tibet.
 

nimo_cn

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I don't want to waste time wrestling with you on if Dalai Lama is a separatist.
Obviously you don't think he is a separatist, after all he is not separatiing Corsica from Fance.
 

Armand2REP

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I don't want to waste time wrestling with you on if Dalai Lama is a separatist.
Obviously you don't think he is a separatist, after all he is not separatiing Corsica from Fance.
We've got our own seperatists for Le Corse, the one thing they aren't affraid to do is admit it. The DL has explicitly stated he is for autonomy within the borders of China. That isn't seperatism.
 

Vinod2070

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I thought the term used is "splittist"!
 

nimo_cn

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Who Will Profit When Google Exits from China?

The days are winding down for many of the best and brightest who went to work for Google in China over the past couple of years. It now appears that it's no longer a matter of if Google is forced to exit the search business in the People's Republic, but when. It could be in a matter of weeks. Google employees can't say so publicly, of course — and some of the 700-plus employees who work at the company's Beijing headquarters will no doubt retain their jobs — but to say that others are fatalistic is to put it mildly. "What can we do?" says a computer scientist who has worked at Google China for more than two years. "If the search business in China is shut down, it's shut down. If I have to find another job when it happens, I'll do it."

The Internet giant's extraordinary insistence that it would no longer censor the search results on Google.cn — the second leading search engine in the country with the most Internet users in the world — appears to be leading to the demise of its Chinese-language search business. Beijing was never going to negotiate with Google on the issue of censorship — particularly not after the U.S. government hitched its wagon to Google's cause, in the form of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's Jan. 21 speech on Internet freedom. In fact, only in the past few days has anyone from the Chinese government even conceded publicly that Beijing was talking to Google at all. But on March 13, Li Yizhong, head of China's powerful Industry and Information Technology Ministry, made sure there was no confusion. "If you don't respect Chinese laws, you are unfriendly and irresponsible, and you will bear the consequences," he said.


Google's stunning pronouncement in January that it would no longer censor Google.cn may have given a thrill to human-rights activists the world over, but a lot of investors were — and remain — furious. Since posting the announcement on its website on Jan. 12, Google's stock price has declined from $595 to about $567, while Baidu, the leading search engine in China, has seen its stock price rise by 50%.


The reason for that is obvious. Jan. 12 was, in effect, the starting point for the next phase of competition in China's search market — the battle for Google's share, which is about one-third in terms of search revenue. The most obvious potential foreign beneficiary is Bing, Microsoft's new search entry. And while Bing may not exactly have been handed the keys to a very rich kingdom, the executives there understand their good fortune — and have not been shy about subtly sticking the knife into Google. On March 17, Craig Mundie, chief research and strategy officer, told the China Daily — an English-language newspaper controlled (like all papers in China) by the Communist Party — that "we feel good enough now [about Microsoft's position in China]," adding, "But it's a 20-year [journey], and not just three years." While Bing has yet to make a dent in China — its market share is less than 1% — Mundie stated the obvious when he said the company stood to gain share in Google's wake. And, he couldn't help adding, "Microsoft is here to stay."

That's no doubt true — but it's also true of several other domestic Internet companies that are moving swiftly to capitalize on Google's — choose one — self-inflicted wound/inspirational stand. Numerous sources says both Sohu.com — a Yahoo!-like website founded by MIT graduate Charles Zhang — and a hugely successful instant-messaging company called Tencent Holdings are already aggressively trying to hire Google China staff. (Google China declined to comment.) Neither has much of a presence in search, with less than 1% of the market each. But the two companies were investing significantly in search even before Google's ultimatum in January, and are now obviously even more determined to take on Baidu.

Analysts believe that of the two, Tencent is in the better position to capitalize, given its dominant position in China's booming instant-messaging business. According to estimates by Analysys International, nearly 70% of China's 400 million Internet users use instant-messaging, and of those, 80% use Tencent's system, known as QQ. That's the major reason that Tencent's market capitalization is bigger than Baidu's, and an insider at the company acknowledges that search "is very much" a target of opportunity.

All the potential usurpers do what the Chinese government requires: censor their search results (as Google still does, despite reports in the blogosphere to the contrary). Random searches on all three platforms on March 17 for "Tiananmen Square, 1989," and "Falun Gong" — two hot buttons as far as Beijing is concerned — prompted the usual government-approved pabulum on the subjects. If Microsoft and the others intend to be in China "to stay," as Mundie put it, there is no chance — none — that the censorship issue will change for them going forward.

Since Jan. 12, Google's primary mission when it comes to its China operations has been damage control. What, if any, of its businesses beside search will survive? So far, it appears that Chinese adopters of Google's new Android operating system — including China Mobile and China Unicom, the two dominant mobile-phone companies — still have the government's permission to utilize the platform. But the future of other businesses that Google is involved with in China — for example, TOP 100.cn. a music portal funded by Google and several big music labels — is unclear.

To date, in fact, the only thing crystal clear is the market's verdict on Google's stand. And however noble Google's anti-censorship stand may be, one of its large institutional investors (who did not want to be identified publicly) no doubt speaks for many when he says, "There are still a lot of us who can't believe they are going to be out of the Chinese search market; that they've effectively made this choice." But out is what the world's dominant search company will apparently be. "I guess," says the investor, "we just get to lump it."

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1973410,00.html
 

Sridhar

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Google to leave China on April 10: Report
Updated on Friday, March 19, 2010, 11:03 IST
Shanghai: US Internet giant Google will close its business in China next month and may announce its plans in the coming days, Chinese media reported on Friday, after rows over censorship and hacking.


The China Business News quoted an official with an unidentified Chinese advertising agency as saying Google would go through with its threatened withdrawal on April 10, but that Google had yet to confirm the pull-out.

The agency is a business partner of Google, the report said.

The report did not specify whether Google would close all or part of its operations in the country.

The newspaper quoted an unidentified Google staff member as saying the company may announce on Monday the details of its exit from China and compensation for its local staff.

Google China spokeswoman Marsha Wang declined to comment on the report, telling AFP only that there had been "no update" on the company's situation.

The report was the latest in a series of clues to emerge recently indicating Google planned to leave China, which has the world's largest population of online users, at 384 million.

Google has cried foul over what it said were cyberattacks aimed at its source code and the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.


The Financial Times reported last week that Google was "99.9 percent" certain to abandon google.cn, citing an unnamed source.

Chinese media said Wednesday that Google sent a notice to clients saying google.cn could close at the end of March.

The issue has sparked a simmering war of words between China and the administration of US President Barack Obama, which has called on Beijing to allow an unfettered Internet.

The dispute has exacerbated mounting tensions between the two over a range of trade and diplomatic issues.

Beijing tightly controls online content in a vast system dubbed the "Great Firewall of China", removing information it deems harmful such as pornography and violent content, but also politically sensitive material.

Google has continued to filter google.cn results to abide by Chinese censorship demands, but says it will eventually stop the screening.

Google confirmed earlier this week that it had received a letter purportedly from a group of 27 Chinese advertising agencies calling for the US company to open talks on compensation for possible business losses if it leaves China.

However, representatives of several of the firms subsequently told AFP they knew nothing of the letter and Chinese media reports have raised doubts about its authenticity.

Google's Wang told AFP the company is still "reviewing" the letter.

Bureau Report

http://www.zeenews.com/news612482.html
 

gogbot

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fight for China;s search market share ?

The market share will now completely be dominated by Chinese companies.

Who will have no objection following CPC rules to the letter
 

nimo_cn

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fight for China;s search market share ?

The market share will now completely be dominated by Chinese companies.
Read the report carefully, Bing which belongs to Microsoft is also competing in Chinese market.
Do i need to tell you that Microsoft is an American company?

Besides, what is wrong with the Chinese market share being dominated by Chinese companies?
Should Chinese internet searching market also be completely dominated by Google just because that has been happenning to Indian market?

Why everytime should it be a west company winning the market that makes a fare competition?
Foreign companies have been given opportunity as equal as their Chinese counterparts, they all operate under the same rules.
Why the losers always blame others for their failure?

Who will have no objection following CPC rules to the letter
Do Indian companies have any objection following the Indian laws to the letter?
 
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gogbot

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Read the report carefully, Bing which belongs to Microsoft is also competing in Chinese market.
Do i need to tell you that Microsoft is an American company?

Besides, what is wrong with the Chinese market share being dominated by Chinese companies?
Should Chinese internet searching market also be completely dominated by Google just because that has been happenning to Indian market?

Why everytime should it be a west company winning the market that makes a fare competition?
Foreign companies have been given opportunity as equal as their Chinese counterparts, they all operate under the same rules.
Why the losers always blame others for their failure?
Doesn't change the facts.

Both China and foreign companies have learned for this incident.

china would no doubt want to establish it control over the internet, though this void.

Of course the reason for control is a debate for another time.

the intention is clear.

There is a reason why In India.

You can access both google.in and google.com

try accessing google.com in china


Do Indian companies have any objection following the Indian laws to the letter?
They don't , but i used my words carefully.

They may have objections following UPA or NDA rules to the letter.
 

gogbot

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Just heard a report on the BBC

Google may leave China by April 10th.
 

nimo_cn

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There is a reason why In India.

You can access both google.in and google.com

try accessing google.com in china
i guess you have no idea what is going on here.

Do you believe Chinese can also access both Google.in and Google.com and we can search stuff on it without the results being censored?

Neither does Chinese government ban Google.com or Google.in or whatever the postfixs are, nor censors the results of these search engines ( i don'k China has the right or ability to do that). But China does censor the searching result of Google.cn according to the law.

You want to me to access the Google.com? OK.

The searching results of "tiananmen" on Google.com, Google.in and Google.cn

Google.com



Google.in


Google.cn


As you can see, the contents about tiananmen incident are filtered on Googl.cn, but not on Google.com and Google.in

But i want to clarify, despite all my negative posts about Google's pullout of China, i am not proud of Chinese censorship system. I uphold the very notion of a free cyberspace.

I am more pissed off by Google's hypocritical and arrogant attitude towards this issue.
 
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Armand2REP

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i guess you have no idea what is going on here.

Do you believe Chinese can also access both Google.in and Google.com and we can search stuff on it without the results being censored?


Neither does Chinese government ban Google.com or Google.in or whatever the postfixs are, nor censors the results of these search engines ( i don'k China has the right or ability to do that). But China does censor the searching result of Google.cn according to the law.

You want to me to access the Google.com? OK.

The searching results of "tiananmen" on Google.com, Google.in and Google.cn

As you can see, the contents about tiananmen incident are filtered on Googl.cn, but not on Google.com and Google.in

But i want to clarify, despite all my negative posts about Google's pullout of China, i am not proud of Chinese censorship system. I uphold the very notion of a free cyberspace.
Don't be stupid, if you click on any of the censored results they will time out with a Chinese IP.. The Great Firewall isn't a myth the West conjured up, it is very real.

I am more pissed off by Google's hypocritical and arrogant attitude towards this issue.
I am more pissed off about how much GDP China wastes censoring the internet. 30,000 people employed full-time, that is a small city.
 

nimo_cn

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Don't be stupid, if you click on any of the censored results they will time out with a Chinese IP.. The Great Firewall isn't a myth the West conjured up, it is very real.
Read my post properly before trying to reply to it.

i was trying to say Google.com is not banned and its searching results are not censored.

I didn't say the links provided by the results could work.
Of course they can't be opened, they are banned.

Next time if you try to twist my words, then pls stop replying to my posts.

I am more pissed off about how much GDP China wastes censoring the internet. 30,000 people employed full-time, that is a small city.
I dont want to talk about this baseless nonsense, if you want, open another thread for yourself-entertaining.
 

enlightened1

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Google stops censoring search results in China

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8581393.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8581393.stm

Google has stopped censoring its search results in China, ignoring warnings by the country's authorities.


The US company said its Chinese users would be redirected to the uncensored pages of its Hong Kong website.

In January, Google had complained about a "sophisticated cyber attack originating from China".

Chinese government officials had warned Google repeatedly that it would face consequences if it did not comply with the country's censorship rules.

We very much hope that the Chinese government respects our decision, though we are well aware that it could at any time block access to our services
David Drummond, chief legal officer, Google

In a blog post, the company said the Chinese government had been "crystal clear throughout our discussions that self-censorship is a non-negotiable legal requirement".

Google's chief legal officer, David Drummond, said that providing "uncensored search" from Google.com.hk was "a sensible solution to the challenges we've faced—it's entirely legal and will meaningfully increase access to information for people in China".

It said there might be some service slowdowns and delays in getting search results while it beefs up resources to handle the re-directed queries.

"We very much hope that the Chinese government respects our decision, though we are well aware that it could at any time block access to our services," Mr Drummond wrote in the blog post.

He wrote that Google would carefully monitor access and provide regular updates via a dedicated page to show what was available via its services in mainland China.

One cause of the row was Google's revelation on 12 January that it, and more than 20 other companies had been the victim of a cyber attack that originated inside China.

During the attack Google lost some intellectual property and discovered that the attack was aimed at the GMail accounts of human rights activists. This attack led Google to "review the feasibility" of its Chinese operations.

Baidu headquarter logo
Baidu is the market leader for online search in China

In the blog entry posted on 22 March, Google said it would maintain an R&D and sales presence in China. It said the size of its sales team would depend on how many Chinese people can get at the Hong Kong based site. Currently about 700 of Google's 20,000 strong workforce are based in China.

On Sunday, state media in China had attacked Google for what they described as the company's "intricate ties" with the US government.

Google provided US intelligence agencies with a record of its search engine results, the state-run news agency Xinhua said.

While Google is the world's most popular search engine, it is a distant number two in the Chinese market, which is dominated by Baidu.

However, because of the size and growth rate of China's internet population, any loss of business there is likely to harm Google's future growth prospects.

Analysts said that initially Google's prospects would not be dented by shutting down Google.cn as it is responsible, at most, for 2% of its annual $24bn (£15.9bn) revenue.

"Near-term, not that big a deal," said Tim Ghriskey, chief investment officer at Solaris Asset Management. "Long-term, if this stays in place, it's a negative. China is certainly a great growth opportunity."

It is well-known that China operates one of the most sophisticated and wide-reaching censorship systems in the world.

Thousands of police officers are employed to monitor web activity and many automated systems watch blogs, chat rooms and other sites to ensure that banned subjects, such as Tiananmen Square, are not discussed.
 

badguy2000

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well,

when searching engilsh websites, I usually use google.com,instead of google.cn.

When searching chinese websites,I usually use baidu.com,instead of google.cn.

So, the close of google.cn has zero effect on me.
 

amoy

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I want to remind u all
Bing - of course u know its origin
Baidu - is NOT a Chinese company though its affiliate for search engine is based in Beijing. Baidu is registered in British Virgin Islands (correct me if wrong), listed in Nasdaq. Founders and main shareholders are American!

So, no major Chinese 'home grown' search engine active in the marketplace for now! (Sogou... etc. is nothing)

Somehow I'm pro-Google in this pull-out soap opera....... becoz I'm sitting alongside cyber freedom for netizens!
 

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