Why did China withdraw from Arunachal in 1962 skirmish?

[Ray]

Sir, Gen JJ Singh Marwah would not be a bhapa but Manmohan Singh Kohli would be. Bhapa is used only for khukrain khatri sikhs (Anand, Sabharwal, Chadha, Kohli, Sahni, Suri, etc.)

Gen JJ Singh, Lt Gen JS Aurora, Lt Gen Harbaksh Singh are all from the same caste, I believe.

Khatris are divided into several subcastes. The 1891 Punjab census listed 3086 subcastes of Khatris and the 1911 census listed 1559. Even the 1911 number seems too large and shows the unreliability of Census figures in these matters. Within Khatris, too, there was a distinct hierarchy. On the top of the pyramid sat dhai-gharais (two and a half houses), consisting of three subcastes - Kapoor, Malhotra and Khanna. The reference to two and a half is because of the Khatri superstition of the number three. Below them were bara-gharais (twelve houses) including such castes as Gujral, Marwaha, Tandon, Chopra and Wahi.

Marwahas

I am told that Khatris are Bhappas (business class)!

All this caste in India thankfully is a thing of the past.

 

[Ray]

I have not understood the issue fully and so I may be off on a tangent.

Aksai Chin had nothing to do with Pakistan.

Sakhsgam which she occupied illegally was given to Pakistan.

Now, would any self respecting country give away their territory to another country? That is the question, even if Pakistan claims it is hers!!

It proves that Pakistan is aware that it is hot hers and so she is magnanimous!!

Would Pakistan hand over NWFP to Afghanistan since it has Pashtuns?

It is because of this Muslim problem where the Sunni majority do not care for Shia sensibility!!

 

[Singh]

Khatris are divided into several subcastes. The 1891 Punjab census listed 3086 subcastes of Khatris and the 1911 census listed 1559. Even the 1911 number seems too large and shows the unreliability of Census figures in these matters. Within Khatris, too, there was a distinct hierarchy. On the top of the pyramid sat dhai-gharais (two and a half houses), consisting of three subcastes - Kapoor, Malhotra and Khanna. The reference to two and a half is because of the Khatri superstition of the number three. Below them were bara-gharais (twelve houses) including such castes as Gujral, Marwaha, Tandon, Chopra and Wahi.

Marwahas

I am told that Khatris are Bhappas (business class)!

All this caste in India thankfully is a thing of the past.

Sir,

Punjabi.net doesn't seem to be a very reliable source, infested with a fair number of pro-Khalistan Canadian and British Sikhs.

From what I know, Khukrains are a distinct group but are clubbed with Khatris in terms of hierarchy of castes, though there has traditionally been little intermarriage amongst the Khatris & Khukrains.

Bhappa which means a brother in potohari (west punjabi) dialect, was a term used somewhat contemptuously by Pratap Singh Kairon to refer to the Khukrain Sikhs who had come from West Punjab. This was iirc due to post-partition settlements and politics. Kairon's main rival was Master Tara Singh, head of Akalis, a critic of Kairon and a "Bhapa".

Sir the last 4 out of COAS have been Khatris, as have all the Sikh Gurus.

 

[masterofsea]

why did china withdraw from Arunachal in 1962

Just show peace sincerity to indians.but Mao overestimated indians' sincerity.Now china lost her opportunity to re-occupy south Tibet because indian has nukes.In 1980s Headquarters of the General Staff of china drawed a operation plan but 6.4 event breaked out and everything got different .This plan didn't actualized and will never be.~~~~（>_<)~~~~

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Just show peace sincerity to indians.

Have you not been following? Your LoCs collapsed. You were bingo food, water, and ammo.

 

[Ray]

Just show peace sincerity to indians.but Mao overestimated indians' sincerity.Now china lost her opportunity to re-occupy south Tibet because indian has nukes.In 1980s Headquarters of the General Staff of china drawed a operation plan but 6.4 event breaked out and everything got different .This plan didn't actualized and will never be.~~~~（>_<)~~~~

Mao was no fool.

He understood tactics.

You cannot sustain military operations without lines of communications i.e. roads/tracks to sustain the troops.

Did this compassionate Mao quit Aksai Chin and area of Western India?

Let's understand reality and less propaganda.

 

[no smoking]

Simple they couldnt resupply their troops and diverted the public attention from the problems they were facing. Above all Mao spanked Nehru...

Could you please explain the second reason with detail? As a "brainwashed" chinese, I realy don't know what kind of problem will damage Chinese leader's reputation than lossing a piece of land without fight.

 

[roma]

Even after more than four decades " 'Chinese see India as enemy "

'Chinese see India as enemy, but army lacks devotion' - Yahoo! India News

'Chinese see India as enemy, but army lacks devotion'

Sun, Sep 27 03:59 PM
London, Sep 27 (IANS) India is the country that is spoken of most often as an enemy in China, a British newspaper reported Sunday, but quoted a retired Chinese officer as saying the men serving the People's Liberation Army (PLA) have no 'devotion'.

'Compared with our last war against India in 1962, our equipment is much better but the devotion to country and people, of our officers and men is much worse,' the Sunday Times quoted an unnamed retired officer as saying.

In an article on the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic, the paper said the occasion is set to be marked by the 'grandest martial parade in the history of modern China', with displays of a new generation of fighters, ballistic missiles, battle tanks and rifles.

'Thursday's parade is certain to provoke an outpouring of virulent nationalism. Curiously, the enemy most often spoken of is India,' the paper said.

Censors, otherwise draconian in their grip over Chinese netizens, permit 'alarmingly frank discussion' on the internet on going to war against India over Tibet.

However, the paper said veterans who know the PLA from the inside say that despite all its shiny new kit, such grandiose ideas mask the reality of 'a force that has no recent battle experience and is riddled with corruption'.

It said insiders speak of a system of bribes ranging from 10,000 yuan ($1,400, Rs.70,000) for a good post for a private soldier to 30,000 yuan for a place at military college.

The Sunday Times quoted General Zhang Shutian, a political commissar, saying in a recent address: 'If corruption in the army continues, ideology will decay and open the way for religion, while the promotion system risks causing a mutiny.'

China's People's Daily newspaper declared Friday: 'We must abide by (former Chinese leader) Deng Xiaoping's instructions that China must be under the leadership of the Communist Party.

'If this fundamental principle is altered, China will go backwards, split and fall into chaos,' it warned.

Indo Asian News Service

 

[Yusuf]

That the indian army is far better trained and professional than PLA is an accepted fact.

 

[no smoking]

That the indian army is far better trained and professional than PLA is an accepted fact.

Please tell me how far better the india army is trained and professional. Which authoritive military magzine made that colusion?

 

[Yusuf]

Why don't you ask the pros.

 

[no smoking]

Why don't you ask the pros.

Because there is no pros say that, you are the only person I have ever found. So, please enlighten me.

 

[Yusuf]

We have been at war continuously since our independence. Experience teaches you how to train better. Our mountain warfare technique is sought after even by the US. We train with the best in the world in terms of joint excercizes. We learn from others experience. No such luxury for China as they have not fought any full scale war for a long time. The last time they went to war, they got a bloody nose.

 

[no smoking]

We have been at war continuously since our independence. Experience teaches you how to train better. Our mountain warfare technique is sought after even by the US. We train with the best in the world in terms of joint excercizes. We learn from others experience. No such luxury for China as they have not fought any full scale war for a long time. The last time they went to war, they got a bloody nose.

Obviously, you have no idea what happend in 1st and 2en sino-vienam war. I suggest you to check the related discussion in WAB. Maybe your mountain warfare tech is praised by US, doesn't mean you are far better than PLA unless you have some pros saying how terrible it is for PLA's training.

 

[Yusuf]

You lost in vietnam. Ask OoE.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Please tell me how far better the india army is trained and professional. Which authoritive military magzine made that colusion?

I MADE THAT CONCLUSION!

Be advised, it does not mean the Indian Army is more effective than the PLA but the InA is already doing what the PLA is trying to do, ie move from the regiment-division-army model to the brigade-division-corps model ... and the PLA failed.

This does not mean that the PLA's 38th and 39th Group Armies are any less effective than the Indian Strike Corps but what it does mean is that China has absolutely no idea what a brigade is supposed to do ... though right now, China knows what a brigade is NOT supposed to to.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Obviously, you have no idea what happend in 1st and 2en sino-vienam war. I suggest you to check the related discussion in WAB. Maybe your mountain warfare tech is praised by US, doesn't mean you are far better than PLA unless you have some pros saying how terrible it is for PLA's training.

You want to ask me?

 

[Ray]

OoE

Could you in detail let us know what exactly happened?

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Sir,

1962, 1979, or 1984?

 

[rockdog]

Aksai Chin now days give a huge strategic advantage to China: it's around 400km away from New Delhi, and also closed to J&K.

1. Once we deploy a short range missile like M11 aim to India's capital, India has to deploy long range (agni-3?) as balance, since we have no too much important cities in western area. so the cost ratio would be 1:5 to 1:10; and if China makes India into such contest, will waste huge resource of India, and to decrease the investment on other weapon plan and even release the burden put on Pakistan.

2. This area also can give PLA routine to support any affair between Pak and India. At war time, supply and even direct support can go from this area.

Comparing Aksai Chin, the South Tibet is really less important, and considering we had limited resource in 1962, withdrawing from AP, but stick with Aksai Chin was smart choice at that time.


PS. It's well known that in 1987 PLA planed to launch a massive attack in South Tibet since there were many border conflicts at that time, and finally the leaders between two nations stop the war (i remember the India PM came to visit China to meet Deng made some agreement).