Why are we phasing out the mig-23 before the mig-21 ?

ashdoc

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The mig 23 MF , the interceptor version of mig23 was phased out in 2007.

Mig 23 BN s are also being phased out.

The MRCA is supposed to replace the mig 23.

Why did we start to phase out the mig 23 before the mig 21 ,considering that it is a later generation aircraft.......and especially considering that the mig 21 crashes regularly.
 

pmaitra

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IMHO, Indian Air Force does not really need the MiG-23MF anymore. These are heavily downgraded version of the original Soviet MiG-23M and today, rather useless as an interceptor. They are good as observation posts, however, being 'swing-wing' (variable geometry) aircraft, they are expensive to maintain and if they are not going to be used for interception, then we have other fixed wing aircraft for observation and hence MiG-23MF becomes redundant.

The MiG-23MF is also a good fighter, but Indian Air Force needs to move on.
 
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pankaj nema

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The Mig 23 MF a fighter plane and Mig 23 BN a ground attack plane , both have been replaced by Mig 29 and Mig 27 respectively

Unlike the Mig 21 Bison there was no possibility of upgrading the Mig 23

Mig 23 had some serious design problems and was considered a more difficult plane to control for the pilot
than even the Mig 21
 

Kunal Biswas

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1. Mig-23 is swing wing deign aircraft without fly by wire tech, Its more unstable than a Mig-21..

2. Spares are very limited coz throughout the world their are no countries are use of Mig-23 only Africans are where as east-block countries still use Mig-21& 29 so spares are available for Mig-21..

3. Tech problems while installing longer BVRs and sophisticated radar, the nose cone doesn't allow modification coz it will destabilize aerodynamics of the aircraft..
Where as MIG-21 have enough space and delta wing for carrying R-77 bvrs..

4. Operational cost are more of a MIG-23/27 coz of complex deign hence more maintenance where MIG-21 is a simple delta-wing..
 

shaka

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All Mig 23 are already gone, guys.
IAF current invertory for fighter/ground attack is:
1. Mig-21Bis, Bison
2. Mig-27ML,U
3. Mig-29A
4. Su-30MKI
5. M2000H
6. JaguarIS,IM

Not sure about Mig21M, i think these are history as well, if 31-32 squadron streangth news are true.
 

shaka

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I read somewhere all Mig-21 except Bisons are going in 2-3 years, Bisons are supposed to be retired by 2017-18. No major upgrades for Mig27 mean IAF want to get rid of these as well. These are plagued by crashes and there up-time is not great either. Older Jaguars will be retired by 2017-18 as well. IAF is going to look a lot different after next 10 years.
 

Rahul Singh

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In one sentence, the IAF retired MIg-23MF/BN precisely because of notoriously unreliable R-35 engine which is not the case with Mig-21.
 

M.S. GURAM

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To all NOTE THE FOLLOWING ABOUT MIG 23 MF / UB & BN
1 THE RUSSIAN MIG 23 MF WAS THE 1ST SWING WING INT, BUT THE RUSSIANS PRODUCED ONLY 5026 PCS IN TOTAL
2 THIS FIGHTER REQ SKILLED AND WELL TRAINED PILOTS, WHICH THE IAF LACKS,
3 . NO ONE WENT TO KTS 6 FOR MIG 23 SIMULATOR TRANNING IN ADAMPUR.
4. IAF MANT. BRANCH WENT CLUE LESS AS ALL MANT. MANNUALS ARE IN RUSSIAN.
 

roma

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WHY ?
reason #1 :- MS GURAM above has given 4 good reasons . I love his reply especially his reasons 2,3 & 4 which gives insight into the idiocy rampant in the "system".

#2 - Corruption is rampant with a regime under which the same seems to flourish. I watch the "Times Now" debates not so much for the journalistic excellence :rolleyes: but because there is at least one person there whom i admire for their courage :
that is Mr Arnab Goswami and there could be a handful of them ( im glad to say )

Under a regime in which such malpractices thrive it, should it be hardly surprising that yet another malpractice takes place ? ---and so it goes, on and on, .....and on ....

Times Now and indeed other journalistic sources of information are revealing at least one scam every day .....one can only hope and pray that the next government led by BJP is going to be better .

India is now in a position to be a rich country almost "overnight" - all we need is some clean folks at the top.
 
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acetophenol

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1. Mig-23 is swing wing deign aircraft without fly by wire tech, Its more unstable than a Mig-21..

2. Spares are very limited coz throughout the world their are no countries are use of Mig-23 only Africans are where as east-block countries still use Mig-21& 29 so spares are available for Mig-21..

3. Tech problems while installing longer BVRs and sophisticated radar, the nose cone doesn't allow modification coz it will destabilize aerodynamics of the aircraft..
Where as MIG-21 have enough space and delta wing for carrying R-77 bvrs..

4. Operational cost are more of a MIG-23/27 coz of complex deign hence more maintenance where MIG-21 is a simple delta-wing..
ji,weren't there issues with structural integrity too,some being reported with MiG 27s too?
 

W.G.Ewald

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http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2013...g-21-fighter-jets/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

On July 15, a Russian-made MIG-21 Bison fighter jet, operated by the Indian Air Force, crashed while attempting to land at the Uttarlai air base in the Barmer district of Rajasthan. This was the second MIG-21 crash, at the very same air base, in two months. However, unlike in the previous accident, which had no casualties, this time the pilot was killed. The crash has been attributed to pilot error.
Only a day after the second accident in Rajasthan, a serving officer of the Indian Air Force, Wing Commander Sanjeet Singh Kaila, who himself is a MIG-21 crash survivor, petitioned the courts for the scrapping of the entire fleet. Wing Commander Kaila has contended that flying the aircraft has violated his right to work in a safe environment. The wing commander was involved in a crash during a flight exercise in 2005 after his aircraft caught fire. He delayed in ejecting to safety from his burning aircraft because he was flying over a populated region. His accident also took place in Rajasthan.
 

W.G.Ewald

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This from more than 4 years ago.

Indian Air Force :: The MiG-21 Bison Upgrade Programme




When we got an invitation to accompany the filming team of KaleidoIndia Ltd for a trip to visit the MiG-21 Bison's Airbase, we just could not say no. KaleidoIndia was tasked by the Air Head Quarters to make a sequel film to the sucessful Aakash Yodha. This film , known as 'Aakash Yodha 2' was to be an internal film for circulation within the Indian Air Force.. The filming was almost completed when it was decided to include some more footage on the Indian Air Force's latest acquisitions. The much publicised Sukhoi Su-30 MKI and the relatively low-key induction of the MiG-21 Bison (earlier known as the MiG-21 UPG). While the induction of the Sukhoi-30 MKI was a much-covered event, This would be the first time that the media would get a close look at the Bisons.
 

bhramos

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To all NOTE THE FOLLOWING ABOUT MIG 23 MF / UB & BN
1 THE RUSSIAN MIG 23 MF WAS THE 1ST SWING WING INT, BUT THE RUSSIANS PRODUCED ONLY 5026 PCS IN TOTAL
2 THIS FIGHTER REQ SKILLED AND WELL TRAINED PILOTS, WHICH THE IAF LACKS,
3 . NO ONE WENT TO KTS 6 FOR MIG 23 SIMULATOR TRANNING IN ADAMPUR.
4. IAF MANT. BRANCH WENT CLUE LESS AS ALL MANT. MANNUALS ARE IN RUSSIAN.
i feel none of reasons suitable for retirement..

mainly 4th is silly.. India is the main buyer of Russian aircraft from 60's, India writes Russian manuals to English and sell to various SE Asian countries,
 

bhramos

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All Mig 23 are already gone, guys.
IAF current invertory for fighter/ground attack is:
1. Mig-21Bis, Bison
2. Mig-27ML,U
3. Mig-29A
4. Su-30MKI
5. M2000H
6. JaguarIS,IM

Not sure about Mig21M, i think these are history as well, if 31-32 squadron streangth news are true.
there is no MiG-27U aka Trainers, but instead IAF uses MiG-23UM and these are still present in IAF

 

thashepherd

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It sounds like some of the reasons for the MiG-23 retirement are similar to those for the USN retiring the F-14 Tomcat: maintenance costs, training requirements, etc.

I'm surprised that India is planning to retire her Jaguars, though. What are you guys going to have left for ground attack/tactical interdiction? It's a dangerous move to plan the entirety of your CAS future around Tejas...about as foolish as the USAF's reliance on the unproven, unfinished F-35.

@roma: Arnab plays a role in fighting corruption, true. He's also part of a wave of media pessimism causing NRIs to lose hope in their own country - I've seen this. Sometimes a bit of nationalism, a bit of optimism though there be no reason for it, is better than realism inciting futility. Just sayin'.
 
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SajeevJino

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I'm surprised that India is planning to retire her Jaguars, though. What are you guys going to have left for ground attack/tactical interdiction? It's a dangerous move to plan the entirety of your CAS future around Tejas...about as foolish as the USAF's reliance on the unproven, unfinished F-35.

Nope ...Jagaur Replace by AMCA only


http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/58691-suitable-jaguar-replacement.html


http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/41573-indian-jaguar-upgrade.html
 

roma

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It sounds like some of the reasons for the MiG-23 retirement are similar to those for the USN retiring the F-14 Tomcat: maintenance costs, training requirements, etc. I'm surprised that India is planning to retire her Jaguars, though. What are you guys going to have left for ground attack/tactical interdiction? It's a dangerous move to plan the entirety of your CAS future around Tejas...about as foolish as the USAF's reliance on the unproven, unfinished F-35. @roma: Arnab plays a role in fighting corruption, true. He's also part of a wave of media pessimism causing NRIs to lose hope in their own country - I've seen this. Sometimes a bit of nationalism, a bit of optimism though there be no reason for it, is better than realism inciting futility. Just sayin'.
thanks for the mention and good post of yours
trying to get the logic of part of it and so allow me to clarify:-
what you said ( and im re-phrasing it in my own words, please ) is that the reality of (certain aspects ) about India is in fact a source of the feeling of futility ? ( tried to send you this by PM but i think yours is switched off ? )
best regards, R
 
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W.G.Ewald

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It sounds like some of the reasons for the MiG-23 retirement are similar to those for the USN retiring the F-14 Tomcat: maintenance costs, training requirements, etc.
Ever been here?

 

thashepherd

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(snip)
trying to get the logic of part of it and so allow me to clarify:-
what you said ( and im re-phrasing it in my own words, please ) is that the reality of (certain aspects ) about India is in fact a source of the feeling of futility ? ( tried to send you this by PM but i think yours is switched off ? )
best regards, R
Hey! Not quite. Let's take this offline, since it's off topic. I'll send you a PM.
 

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