What is the Definition of a Hindu?

[HariPrasad-1]

The current Hindu society has a large amount of foreign influence. The entire concept of idol worship and caste and communal are imported concepts.

No it is not..........................

 

[Indrajit]

For the constitution any dispensation that has scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and later added OBCs can only be Hindus not others. In other words only those people who follow caste distinctions are Hindus.....

Scheduled tribes can be non Hindus. The rest, correct...:biggrin2:

 

[Indrajit]

No it is not..........................

I dont know why this apparent queasiness about idol worship, polytheism etc....seems a lot of people are somehow embarrassed by it, as if the alternative of one God somehow makes any more sense. Either the idea of God is nonsensical or it's not, the silliness in arguing the number is pathetic.

 

[Bhadra]

Scheduled tribes can be non Hindus. The rest, correct...:biggrin2:

Majority of them became non Hindus after the constitution was accepted ... till then they were considered Hindus.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

I dont know why this apparent queasiness about idol worship, polytheism etc....seems a lot of people are somehow embarrassed by it, as if the alternative of one God somehow makes any more sense. Either the idea of God is nonsensical or it's not, the silliness in arguing the number is pathetic.

Idol worship is a different science. Idols are deities and not the creator of universe. We dot worship idols as the symbolism of creator but something from which we derive power .

 

[Indx TechStyle]

If there is a creation then there is a creator. This is basic law.

Who created the creator?
A creation doesn't necessarily needs an intelligent purposeful creator. They just happen in confines of natural laws.

 

[Indrajit]

Idol worship is a different science. Idols are deities and not the creator of universe. We dot worship idols as the symbolism of creator but something from which we derive power .

My point was limited to the squeamishness some feel in being called idolaters by followers of another religion.

 

[Bhadra]

I dont know why this apparent queasiness about idol worship, polytheism etc....seems a lot of people are somehow embarrassed by it, as if the alternative of one God somehow makes any more sense. Either the idea of God is nonsensical or it's not, the silliness in arguing the number is pathetic.

Polytheism is a freedom of belief in the absence of acceptance of final God. It is also acknowledgement of the the position that final God has yet not been found and enquiry should be on. And that the nature of our existence is perhaps continuously changing and expanding - a position the physics has accepted so far.

It is also acknowledgement of the fact that the enquiry into our existence is bottom to top upwards and we are yet to reach top because the lower and middle portions still remain complex. It is unlike Bible or Koran where everything is prefixed having been finally found and there can not be any further seeking.

The Top has been left to one's individual choice so far. Believe in all creator Shiva or all creator Vishnu or All creator Brahma or that which created the three .... or at best believe in that wave of bliss of the "Bindu" which created everything by ever expanding in her chakras.

The top layer is free for all but bottom layers of tanmatras, man, budhi, ahankar, chtta, tattvas, physical body, mental makeup are enquired into and all enquiries will lead to the final one - if there is one.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Then i say i'm not a monkey(technically we are evolved monkeys )still it look absurd.

This is not a proper example. when we talk of religion it should be seen in religion context only. If you exclud all non native religion practiced in India, whatever is left is Hinduism. Inclusive definition shall be very large yet incomplete.

 

[Indrajit]

Then i say i'm not a monkey(technically we are evolved monkeys )still it look absurd.
.

Not a correct understanding of evolution. We did not evolve from "monkeys", we and the "monkeys / apes" have a common ancestor who was probably more ape like than human like.

 

[Indrajit]

Polytheism is a freedom of belief in the absence of acceptance of final God. It is also acknowledgement of the the position that final God has yet not been found and enquiry should be on. And that the nature of our existence is perhaps continuously changing and expanding - a position the physics has accepted so far.

It is also acknowledgement of the fact that the enquiry into our existence is bottom to top upwards and we are yet to reach top because the lower and middle portions still remain complex. It is unlike Bible or Koran where everything is prefixed having been finally found and there can not be any further seeking.

The Top has been left to one's individual choice so far. Believe in all creator Shiva or all creator Vishnu or All creator Brahma or that which created the three .... or at best believe in that wave of bliss of the "Bindu" which created everything by ever expanding in her chakras.

The top layer is free for all but bottom layers of tanmatras, man, budhi, ahankar, chtta, tattvas, physical body, mental makeup are enquired into and all enquiries will lead to the final one - if there is one.

My point was that many people are defensive about polytheism, arguing that Hinduism is not polytheistic and that Hindus dont worship idols & thats somehow a corruption of older thoughts. While the argument is not unreasonable because there is enough lines of thinking suggesting a basic undelining of monotheism in some places (though not of the type of west Asian origin religions) and that idol worship was not present in vedic Hinduism, the argument is now made defensively as if the alternative is somehow superior in reasoning, which it is not. West Asian origin religions are very primitive in that everything is either black or white. A kind of religion for dummies but which works very well because most people; let's face it like that kind of black and white thought. Hinduism is anything but that, like an unlimited buffet as opposed to fixed menu.

 

[Bhadra]

Bro,that is why i simply highlighted NOT because u can not define anything with NOT.

Oh My Dear Brother do not say this. That approach of " Negation and Negation" called "neti Neti" is a famous logical method of enquiry or a logic school in vedic philosophy.

तत्त्वमस्यादिवाक्येन स्वात्मा हि प्रतिपादितः ।
नेति नेति श्रुतिर्ब्रूयाद अनृतं पाञ्चभौतिकम् ।। २५।।

It seems you have not read or heard "Nirvana Shatakam" of Adi Shankaracharya which gives a fine example of "Net- Neti" logic .....
.......................................
मनोबुद्ध्यहङ्कारचित्तानिनाहं
नचश्रोत्रजिह्वेनचघ्राणनेत्रे ।
नचव्योमभूमिर्नतेजोनवायुः
चिदानन्दरूपःशिवोऽहम्शिवोऽहम् ॥१॥
*************************
*********************
नमृत्युर्नशङ्कानमेजातिभेदः
पितानैवमेनैवमातानजन्मः ।
नबन्धुर्नमित्रंगुरुर्नैवशिष्यं
चिदानन्दरूपःशिवोऽहम्शिवोऽहम् ॥५॥

Find time and hear that rendered by Pandit Jasraj .....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_neti
In Hinduism, and in particular Jnana Yoga and Advaita Vedanta, neti neti (नेति नेति) is a Sanskrit expression which means "not this, not this", or "neither this, nor that" (neti is sandhi from na iti "not so"). It is found in the Upanishads and the Avadhuta Gita and constitutes an analytical meditation helping a person to understand the nature of Bhramana or भ्रामण by first understanding what is not Bhramana. Bhramana is rotation, turning about.[1] Motion as the nature of reality. It corresponds to the western via negativa, a mystical approach that forms a part of the tradition of apophatic theology. One of the key elements of Jnana Yoga practice is often a "neti neti search." The purpose of the exercise is to negate rationalizations and other distractions from the non-conceptual meditative awareness of reality.


Be careful my brother..... Hinduism is not as light as it appears .......:biggrin2:

 

[Bhadra]

My point was that many people are defensive about polytheism, arguing that Hinduism is not polytheistic and that Hindus dont worship idols & thats somehow a corruption of older thoughts. While the argument is not unreasonable because there is enough lines of thinking suggesting a basic undelining of monotheism in some places (though not of the type of west Asian origin religions) and that idol worship was not present in vedic Hinduism, the argument is now made defensively as if the alternative is somehow superior in reasoning, which it is not. West Asian origin religions are very primitive in that everything is either black or white. A kind of religion for dummies but which works very well because most people; let's face it like that kind of black and white thought. Hinduism is anything but that, like an unlimited buffet as opposed to fixed menu.

I agree with you .... let them be happy with what they have and let us be happy with what we have ... we should not get carried away by their happiness but strive constantly with our ways of happiness..

 

[Indrajit]

Don't know what the hell is this but in my teenage days i simply cried when i see the stars because we will never ever find the answers i.e from stars to humans everything IS made-up of atoms means we &STONES are same what is the purpose of stone is same as purpose of human life .......simply nothing.

An excellent explanation supporting your argument is given here.

 

[Wisemarko]

With this level of difference of opinions in such a small group of people, I think Hinduism is under more threat than most people know. Please read my first post again and discuss what to do instead of writing definitions of Hinduism.

 

[Bhadra]

A slightly longer video but it is worth it :

 

[hit&run]

Indian constitution is a temporary construct. It is finite and it must be imbibed by the aware Hindus before it becomes another cult that destroys this remnant Hindu civilization.

For thousands of years, rulers and their subjects have come a gone, if India the land of Hindus can be invaded and later divided then Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir can be invaded dived and converted back to Hinduism.

The cowardice of Hindus is not because they are not rioting on the streets and not picking up the arms but not being able to see beyond a decade and be satiated with these provisions like the Indian constitution.

The cowardice is in constantly visualising a doomed future following the path of a strive as if the past was so glorious.

There is only one definition of a Hindu, not the mumbo-jumbo you people are moaning.

A Hindu is who is dug in his heels to defend, own, fight and rule the land that is a stretch from the Himalayas to the Indian Ocean and beyond.

 

[DMZ_dazzle]

"The cowardice is in constantly visualising a doomed future as if the past was so glorious."

Super like for this assertion. The subcontinent has seen far worse times for centuries. We must not forget that out ancestors were Shivaji Maharaj, Guru Teg bahadur ji, Guru Gobind Singh ji, Maharana Pratap, Lachit Borphukan and many like them. They didn't fight to see us capitulate to these foreign ideologies. Waheguruji da Khalsa Waheguruji di Fateh!

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

4 branches of dharma - Sanatana,Bouddha,Jain,Sikhi

Four core concepts of sanatana -
1.Atman/individual soul fragment)-Brahman/supreme reality or soul(either dualistic interpretation of their relationship by dwaita vedanta philosophy of madhavacharya,or non dual advaita vedanta of adi shankara,or qualified non duality/vishistavedanta of ramanuja)

2.Samsara(cycle of death and rebirth and transmigration of souls).Universe is also cyclic.Creation-destruction-recreation and so on.Not one linear creation like in abrahamic religions.

3.Karma(cause and effect chain,and the ledger of deeds accross births)

4.Moksha(the ultimate goal,union of atman with brahman after running the gauntlet of samsara)

Ways to achieve moksha as stated by krishna in gita -
1.Gyanyoga(meditation and contemplation,study - mostly for sages and ascetics)
2.Bhaktiyoga - Devotion(chanting god's name repeatedly,dancing etc)
3.Karmayoga - Good deeds( standard path).Karma is mandatory for moksha,even if you are a great devotee if your karma is bad it wont save you..As was case with ravana who was devotee of shiva.

Satguna-Nirguna aspects of god.
Important to understand that hindus believe in 2 levels of truth(as in quantum mechanics where a particle can exist in both places at once or light existing as both particle and wave).Nirguna brahman/paramishwara/paramatman/bhagwan.This is god without attributes ,without personality- cant be described because there is no comparable entity.The supreme reality that includes within it all reality but is also beyond it.
Satguna brahman - Manifestation of brahman with attrubutes for functioning.3 main manifestations are brahma the creator,vishnu(that which pervades) the preserver and shiva(that which is not) the destroyer.Brahma is generally considered an offshoot of vishnu or shiva depending on whether the devotee is shaivite or vaishnav.Shaktas consider durga bhawani/adishakti(primordial energy) as the supreme mother goddess.Ultimately they are all aspects of the one supreme nirguna brahman but vaishnavs, shaivites, shaktas each consider their ishtadeva(personal god) as the supreme form of satguna brahman and the vehicle through which they reach the abstract nirguna.

There are also kuladevas(family dieties) or regional dieties which are either related(as sons/daughter or consorts of the big 3 and shakti) or are aspects of them such as laxmi,saraswati,ganesha,murugan-karthikeya/skanda,ayappa,meenakshi,kali,jagdamba,hanuman.
Under them are the aditya devas which are similar to demigods or lesser gods each representing an aspect.These are old indo european gods like indra,varuna,agni,mitra,dyaus pita/zeus pater/jupiter,yama.These names can be found amongst the iranians,the hittites in the middle east,even in greece.They were more prominent in the rigvedic era but lost significance as man mastered nature and the sages developed more sophisticated cosmic concepts as well as advent of avatars ram and krishna.
In total there are 33 types of these lesser gods.NOT 330 million gods.33 koti means in sanskrit 33 types not 330 million number.

10 schools of thought in Hindu philosophy -
There are 6 astika(theist) schools and 4 nastika(atheist) schools of hindu philosophy.
Astika philosophy accepts authority of vedas and existence of atman(individual soul).Nastika schools accepts neither.However in hinduism if your karma is good even if you don't believe in god,you can still reach god .So atheism is not a problem.

Pratyakṣa (perception), Anumāṇa (inference), Upamāṇa (comparison and analogy), Arthāpatti (postulation), Anupalabdhi (non-perception, cognitive proof) and Śabda (word, testimony of past or present reliable experts) are considered the means by which knowledge can be proved.These following philosophies can accept any number of these,either all 6 or 1 in case of charvaka or some number in between depending on basis and nature of the philosophy.

6 astika schools -
Samkhya - Dualism between purusha(soul) and prakriti(nature).Focus on meditation.Oldest school founded by sage kapil.Doesnt accept god as a personality.Basis of later and more sophisticated vedanta.
Nyaya - Somehwat dogmatic philosophy accepting only knowledge to be gained and proven through 5 senses
Rational approach,somewhat similar to scientific method concept.Relies on pramana(proof) that is verifiable.Founder- sage gautama.
Yoga - Self -realization through discipline -mental and physical.More practical than theoretical.Founder- Sage patanjali.
Vaisheshikha - Conception of the universe and all matter in it being reducable to atoms/paramanu 3000 years before british scientist dalton actually proved atomic theory.Brahman gives consciousness to these paramanu.Founder - Sage kanada.
Purva Mimansa - Focus on yagnas and mantras ,and vedic orthodoxy.
Vedanta(conclusion of the vedas) - The current basis of santana dharma.Pretty much all knowledgable hindus today follow vedanta.Divided primarily into advaita of shankara,vishistaadviata of ramanuja or dwaita of madhava,as well as other viewpoints such as those of chaitanya and ballavacharya.This is the most important school and one all serious readers have to study.

Of the 4 nastika schools -
Charvaka - Material pursuit and joyful living.With death all ends.Rejects vedas as man made,rejects afterlife or soul.Founder - Brihaspati/ajita.
Ajivika - Fatalism.Everything is predecided by fate.
The other 2 quasi-nastika schools which styarted as protest movements against orthodoxy became seperate religions - jainism and buddhism.(buddha however is considered 9th avatar of vishnu by many)

Tantra is both astika as well as nastika since its mysticism/occult more than philosophy.
Ajnana is both .Its is radical skepticism and refuses to take any concrete position.Suspension of judgement.

Most Important texts of sanatana-
4 vedas
Bhagavad Gita
10 revered upanishads.

Puranas are biased towards the god that particular text is devoted to,contradictary and not dependable.
Manusmriti corrupted by power hungry brahmins over time and british and defunct,as well as unusable in modern world.

Modes of worship -
Mediation and contemplation with mantras or without.
Chanting of mantras and hymns before a fire(early vedic mode)
Bhakti.Chanting gods' name,dancing,surrender and ecstasy.
Yagnas and rituals.
Moorti puja/'Idol' worship.
No worship needed,just good karma.
None of the above are compuslory,but karma applies to everyone.

Unlike in abrahamic religions where god is external to creation ,in dharmic faiths brahman is everything that is creation.The idol doesnt have a soul,but it is part of brahman and as long as the devotee directs his devotion at it,its is considered god.Symbolism plays a part here too as for simpler people without access to high philosophy this and the stories of the epics is how god stays in their consciousness.Think the national flag as a symbol and not just a cloth.
Temples provide a focus for worship and tradition,a community gathering of the faithful,provides livelihood for priests and legitimacy for political patrons and protectors/rulers.Thus its win-win for all classes.Otherwise temples too are not mandatory in sanatana dharma.

Other differences with abrahamic faiths -

Rejection of christian doctrine of justification by faith alone -
Karma can't be washed away by blind faith,yes it can be redeemed through faith and good actions.But hinduism gives preferance to deeds over belief/faith.So waging holy war,killing innocents in name of faith will not wash away your crimes.

Rejection of one life doctrine -
The one life and then judgement doctrine has several problems.Every year millions of disabled children are born and die early without any human sin causing their suffering.How can a god who claims to be good and just put one through such suffering,how can he judge them for anything when they havent even had the chance to do anything in life.This suffering cant be explained by one life theory.There are 3 possible explanations -
God doesnt exist
God exists but doesnt care/know(too insignificant) about human suffering.
God is impersonal in the sense he doesnt micromanage the process.He set the cycle in motion,but it runs by itself.The karmic cycle takes its own course,and 1 life is not the end.

No heaven,no hell -
Heaven and hell are simply temporary experiences after each death(even that is debated) that men enjoy rather than permanent destinations in hinduism.They are at a lower level(same level as demigods)And you don't definitatively enjoy one place only.Even yudhisthira had to visit narak/hell for a few seconds for his breach of dharma in kurukshetra and with regards to draupadi.The ultimate goal is moksha.Many hindus dont believe in the concept of heaven/hell at all.(even in its reduced form)

No concept of satan or a fundamental evil.Rejection of original sin.We are not born sinners.We are born pure,but become entrapped in maya through the six enemies of the mind(pride/mada,greed/lobha,lust/kama,envy/matsarya,anger/krodha and moha /indordinate fascination)

Don't assign attributes to supreme nirguna brahman like god is good,god is just etc.Do not assign gender to supreme god.All abrahamic religions talk of holy father,but there is no mention of mother of the universe.In sanatana at satguna level there is no shiva without shakti,brahma is paired with saraswati,vishnu with laxmi,rama with sita,krishna with radha.And brahman is both father,mother and neither.

Belief in evolution -
Hinduism has no problem with evolutionary theory unlike creationists of abrahamic faiths who believe mankind began with adam 100 generations before jesus just 4000-5000 years ago.

Less emphasis to divine legalism -
Strict divine instructions are not as important like sharia or ten commandments.There are guidelines,but much looser.

 

[garg_bharat]

She is talking technical aspects there, i'm talking talking about technical +Philosophical.



OK. We all want to define Hinduism but it is IMPOSSIBLE..... then u ask Why?
Before rise of organised religions there people live like Tribal's every village has ONE god/dess so all clan people worship that thing.

While in Middle east TWO CULT stated to rise by preaching ONLY MY GOD'S PROPHET/ SON is TRUE and rest all are FALSE.

Then ''what happens to all tribal gods??

They branded them as PAGANS//KAFIRS and started DESTROYING EVERY TEMPLE.Of-course they resist they all are butchered and they built BRAND NEW CHURCH/MOSQUE on it.

What is Hinduism.In Hinduism all Tribal god's are ELEVATED BY BRAHMINS by doing puja in sanskrit--we call it mantras.

If u want to Hinduism like Organized religions then we must start DESTROYING EVERY TEMPLE EXCEPT RAM(ramayan) or Krishna(geeta) and worship as Only Ramayan/geeta is True books and rest all are ADHRAMICS .... Can u do it??

No Hindu agree to destroy even Arab-Pedophile-terrorist mask forget about 10000's of temples.

Bharat was cultured and had Vedic religion when rest of the world was savage.

People from all over the world came to Bharat to learn. Even Jesus lived in India for several years before he preached in Israel.

You are unaware of history of India.

Temples have been made in India only in last 3000 years. Hindu temples are less than 2000 years old. Earliest temples were made by Jain monks.