What if Britain left the EU?

nrupatunga

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This is from 1942 When leaders of Europe were planning what future "Europen Union" would look like ;).
Yep, this is a map of europe if hitler had won the war.

What if Hitler had won World War II? - Quora
The world if:

* GB made a nonaggression pact with Germany after the fall of France. Hitler never wanted a war with GB since they were Anglo-Saxons.
* USSR eventually surrenders to Germany. Germany realizes it cannot occupy all of the USSR so the Soviets remain in control of everything USSR east of the Urals.
* US stays out of the war in Europe once GB is out. Japan still attacks the US but Germany does not declare war on the US. (The Axis Alliance was a defense pact so Hitler was not bound to declare war on the US since Japan was the aggressor.)

1) Germany sets up colonies in the lebensraum of Eastern Europe. As described by Donato Riccardo Santo, Germans settle heavily in some areas and lighter in others. Slavs are made into landless, peasants with no rights. In areas of lighter German settlement plantations are set-up with Slavs as the workforce.

2) Rebellions and resistance would have been crushed by the Germans. Without the hope of GB coming to liberate them, most peoples would settle under fascist rule much like Eastern Europe did under communism. Local fascists would assume local control from the Germans and form puppet states. For example by 1950 Germany would no long have the manpower to occupy France since they needed that manpower in the East. They would impose a harsh puppet government in punishment for Versailles.

3) Germany herself would become even more powerful and industrialized with all of the resources from her empire. The new German settlements and Nazi programs would cause a large German population boom.

4) Hitler rewards his allied nations with increased land. Especially Italy which gets large parts of the Med Sea.

5) Europe's colonies would largely get their independence and view Hitler as their liberator. Hitler wants to focus on colonizing Eastern Europe instead of ruling overseas areas.

6) Christianity in Germany slowly dissolved and replaced with Aryan/Pagan religion. Religious aspects of Nazism

7) US (after defeating Japan) and Germany are the world's superpowers.

8) Hitler rebuilds Berlin as Welthauptstadt Germania ("World Capital Germania"). Welthauptstadt Germania

9) Holocaust is carried out to completion. The pace may have been slower but there is no evidence Hitler would have not carried out the Holocaust if the war went his way.

10) Germany would have funded/supported fascist countries and movements around the world. The US would have countered this by supporting democracies. A version of the Cold War would ensue with the US (democracy) vs. Germany (fascist).
 

nrupatunga

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Enlarged version of the pic posted in #10



Though not sure how good the world would have been under such a scenario. But one thing, the boundaries would have changed soon esp on eastern side i.e. USSR. Either stalin would have defeated hitler and moved westwards or ussr itself would have been broken if it could not defeat nazis. As even if nazis might not have further advanced eastwards, but stalin/communists would have lost the narrative to rule and lost the backing of the public and thus ripe for dissolution of ussr.
 
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jouni

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Enlarged version of the pic posted in #10



Though not sure how good the world would have been under such a scenario. But one thing, the boundaries would have changed soon esp on eastern side i.e. USSR. Either stalin would have defeated hitler and moved westwards or ussr itself would have been broken if it could not defeat nazis. As even if nazis might not have further advanced eastwards, but stalin/communists would have lost the narrative to rule and lost the backing of the public and thus ripe for dissolution of ussr.
Have you watched this? It is a great film and novel.

Robert Harris: FATHERLAND: Robert Harris: FATHERLAND - YouTube
 

HMS Astute

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Hundreds and thousands of immigrants are coming to the UK just to use the NHS which they pay NOTHING towards. They take benefits, houses and alike without doing ANYTHING to contribute to the economy.

There are Romanian's pitching up outside tourist hotspots in London begging, Cameron and the UK have every right to say, NO. We want to curb the numbers coming in. There's a reason why more immigrants come to the UK then any other EU nation and that's because we are already more welcoming and offer much more than anyone else once they're here.

Why should British tax payers (That includes ex pats from other nations and immigrants who work within the system) have to support people who offer nothing and scrounge of the system.

David Cameron and the UK has every right to try and curb immigration when the PEOPLE who elected him, British nationals don;t want the vast number that are coming into the country.

If the numbers of immigrants that the UK was receiving was matched by others you can bet your bottom dollar they would also raise issues.

Australia, Canada and the US all have strict VISA protocols, Europe has stripped the UK's. Yes we welcome ones who will benefit the country, but why should we accept ones who don't?
 

pmaitra

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I am all for free movement of people. The problem is elsewhere. It is the benefits culture, dole system, and all kinds of socialist claptrap, designed to garner votes and look like a Messiah, while firing from another man's shoulder.

Social Security and Health Benefits are supposed to be a safety net, not an entitlement.

The hard working folks, in any society, shouldn't be held responsible for those that refuse to work.
 

HMS Astute

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If I may correct one error, I am afraid Britain is not world's biggest financial centre. It has lost that position, all because of a raft of scandals in the City, uncertainty over Britain's future in the European Union and EU crackdown on bankers' bonuses. The financial capital is now New York.
London trades more Euro daily than the entire Eurozone countries combined together. London acts as a bridge between the western world and eastern world. Thanks to it's GMT 00:00 time zone where the time was invented, English "global business" language, long tradition in finance, history, fashion capital (sold more than New York), culture, influence, global clout, sports (more Olympics than New York), entertainment (O2 Arena sold more tickets than Madison Square Garden does), attractiveness, popularity (hence: the most visited city on earth), media, infrastructure, education (more top 10 world's best universities than New York), relationship with the commonwealth nations, US, EU (world's biggest economy i acknowledge), China (just announced to pour $170 billion and it has chosen London to become global hub for trading Chinese Yuan currency), Middle East, Africa and the rest of the world etc. I doubt London would lose it's position as a global player in many aspects even if the UK was not in the EU. Also the basic fairness and honesty of British law and bureaucracy is trusted over most of the planet. In fact, many of the world's emerging countries owe their own systems to it. On the other hand, US markets are seen by many in the finance industry as over-regulated--and too politicized--and that keeps New York from eclipsing London in spite of other advantages. Second, there is English as has been mentioned. And finally, there is simply a global comfort with London as a place to live, work and do business that Frankfurt won't match soon.


UK GDP has now officially overtaken France and already become 2nd biggest economy in Europe and 5th in the world. (same as before until 2008)

GDP is now $2.902 trillion and it's predicted to be between $2.97 trillion to $3 trillion when the IMF releases the figures for every country.

Don't forget it is the fastest growing major advanced economy not only in G7, but in the world whilst many other countries in eurozone are pretty fcuked up as france...


Originally Posted by Ray

Correction.

New York is only 1 point ahead of London since the beginning of March this year, whereas London was crowned and titled as no.1 world's biggest financial capital since 2005 until end of 2014 February, beating New York every single year for a decade and probably before that that too but i wasn't aware of it at the time before i started studying and working in the financial industry. Even until now, many sources including Forbes, Knight Frank, KPMG etc still rank London as the most economically most powerful city and no.1 financial centre in the world. Even the gaint American company Aon, the world's largest insurance company just moved their HQ from Chicago to London.

http://www.zyen.com/PDF/LCGFC.pdf
http://www.zyen.com/PDF/GFCI.pdf

The World's Most Influential Cities 2014: Forbes

The World's Most Influential Cities - Forbes
















London to become centre for trading in Chinese yuan
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/london-to-become-centre-for-trading-in-chinese-yuan-1.2055113


English language, fairly open and non-bureaucratic employment paths, English cultural hegemony leading to a sense of familiarity, UK lifted labour restrictions earlier than most other EU countries, low unemployment rate (parts of the Eurozone are deep in the toilet in this regard)... Other countries receive fair share of immigrants too. My curiosity is why France receives so few European immigrants compared to most other large EU countries. I would say this is even more exceptional than the UK rate...

Strengthen all EU Navies and patrol the Mediterranean in strength so that there is a virtual barricade wherein illegals cannot cross over and dissolve into the Europe population and then go onto the UK.
It's called being responsible. As the first civilised country to receive these 'asylum seekers' you're supposed to deal with their application, not merely pass the book. If you like we can just fly them back and drop them out over Madrid with a parachute labelled 'returned to sender'. I don't see why we should be left to deal with a double-whammy of EU migrants and illegal migration catalysed by the irresponsibility of other EU member states.

This is exactly why a two-tier EU immigration reform is needed.

1) Pass legislation such that all external migrants must be dealt with at the first point of EU entry and can be returned to that point for this to happen if necessary.

2) Review EU migration with consideration given to population density and available land mass.

As an aside a review of EU subscription fees with consideration given to deficit and actual revenue (rather than just headline GDP) is also needed.

And if you struggle to see RN vessels and helicopters in the Mediterranean, you're not looking hard enough.



Therefore, to complain about poor nations sapping Britain is a very ironical comment.
There's only so much a country can do as regards illegal immigration, it's therefore vital that we control the immigration we can control more effectively, which is where EU immigration reform comes in. As already mentioned, an EU immigration reform should also address external migrants entering the EU via Spain and Italy. EU rules should not allow them to end up in the UK and where they do, they should be sent straight back to the first EU nation they entered for them to deal with as they see fit. The UK should not be a final destination/dumping ground for external immigrants.

Have you heard about the immigrants living 20-to-house? How are UK citizens supposed to compete with that? Live in a commune perhaps? Which would in essence be a de facto loss of the Cold War when you think about it, and ironically, all imposed by an East German.

As I understand it EU citizens can't be asked to leave, with or without a job, many people worked 8-9 years and ended up losing their house and having tens of thousands of pounds in debt to pay. No sympathy here at all. What happened to the money they contributed - I return your question.

£11.3bn of that £18.5bn pays for the EU subscription fee and the remaining £7.2bn doesn't even nearly cover the cost of EU legislation on business and loss of fishing rights. That's before you even consider the cost of the infrastructure imposed by a larger population... roads, rail networks, healthcare, welfare, sanitation etc. That £18.5bn is in fact now negative. The brutal truth is that immigrants generally don't earn enough to make a positive contribution to the UK economy.
 
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Ray

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Statistics impress, but are worthless when the value that attracts it diminishes when it is no longer the hub that bridges the world.

Note one of the reasons why the US dollar has been declining.

Now let's look at the other extreme: the ugly duckling, the euro. In 2012, at the beginning of the euro, the Wall Street Journal praised us for our "brave" call. It was only brave in the sense that most pundits disagreed with us. Personally, I think it requires more bravery to follow the advice of pundits, as it appears to be an almost certain way to lose money. Instead, we study the facts. Amongst them:
As the central bank balance sheet comparison shows, the European Central Bank (ECB) has been mopping up liquidity rather than "printing" more money. Unlike the Fed that prints a boatload to buy securities, the ECB's liquidity operations are demand driven. That means so-called long-term refinancing operations (LTROs) are conducted to temporarily give banks cash for posting collateral. However, for a variety of reasons banks have returned unwanted liquidity.

At the same time, there's an amazing stimulus where it is needed most: the cost of borrowing for weaker Eurozone countries has been falling since August 2012. This may be the most powerful stimulus the Eurozone has; it's a stimulus that's ongoing and intensifying:
Merk Insights - The Dollar's Long Term Decline
It is the Euro that is powerful. No Euro, the value of the British Pound is mere paper that it is printed on.

The greatest vulnerability of any economy is the current account deficit which is the trade deficit plus the net balance in services, net income on overseas investments and net transfers.

Imagine Britain then without the EU support and dangling on its own.

It is worth noting that the Confederation of British Industry (CBI), for example, thinks that Britain's membership of the EU is worth up to 5% of GDP, or as much as £78bn a year – roughly the combined worth of the economies of north-east England and Northern Ireland. (Guardian 10 Oct 2014).

The paper also notes
US-owned financial institutions as Bank of America, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley are said to be considering leaving London if Britain quits Europe. Should it happen, he thinks this would only be the start. "Our financial centre would get hollowed out," he says. "There are around 500 banks that have their headquarters here, and without a passport to operate throughout Europe in the form of the single market, they simply can't be here. Financial services represents about 10% of GDP; if that was threatened, it would be deeply, deeply damaging
The UK is a net contributor to the EU to the tune of around £12bn a year. But the EU is the UK's main trading partner, something worth more than £400bn a year to the UK economy. Around 1.8 million British citizens live in other EU countries, a million of them in Spain.

China maybe the Centre of the Chinese currency trading, but if winter comes, can spring be far behind for the rest of Europe?

Therefore, all the charts that you have appended looks great now, but may not look great if Britain leaves the EU.

Money is what matters and no money means a desolate future.

If the illegals do enter UK, even after you quit the EU, on what grounds can you parachute the illegal into Spain? You would have to prove beyond doubt that they came from Spain and not elsewhere.

All that stuff you are suggesting that the first point of entry nation to should act is passing the buck. If the illegals slip by how can you establish which was the first point of entry? Those illegals will tell the truth? They are not daft to give the game away for the remainder who will follow the route and would be very wary of retribution fro the illegal trade Mafia.

I am aware that immigrants stay 20 to a flat. Legal or Illegal. That is not only in the UK, but anywhere in the world. It is economics and not due to lack of accommodation. Visit Brick Lane and see for yourself to note legal immigrants and British Bangladeshis are living cheek by jowl. Economics and the Asian concept of joint family.

Britain benefits immensely with the EU immigrants and the legal and illegal immigrants as I have indicated.

If they did not, then the British people themselves would not make them survive and they survive on getting jobs that the British people willingly give to scrounge on the pennies, a fact which the 'proud' British want to turn a Nelson's Eye to since it upsets their colonialist ego of being superior über alles.

If immigrants don't earn enough to make any positive contribution, then the most sane thing would be to increase their pay and not scrounge like Shylocks!
 

sorcerer

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Three causes and two ways to break the European Union

The largest delegations to observe the elections in the republics of Donetsk and Luhansk arrived from France, Italy, Austria, Greece, Serbia, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary. Here is the list of the countries that form an opposition to the official position of Brussels on the Ukrainian conflict. This timid opposition threatens to break the EU from within.

Ukraine's Foreign Ministry urged the governments and parliaments of all countries, whose observers attended the elections in the breakaway republics, to dissociate themselves from those persons and their conclusions about the legitimacy of the vote. Kiev threatened to create problems in the relationships with those countries otherwise. There is a strong opposition to Brussels being formed in the EU.

The opposition is being formed on three levels: on the level of national governments, the parliament of the European Union and on the level of business circles. The reasons for dissatisfaction can be divided into two blocks. First of all, this is economic utopia of the entire "Ukrainian project" that blocked important cooperation projects with Russia. Nationally-oriented EU governments and business circles of these countries are also concerned about the dictate of Brussels and the domination of its administrative resource (if you're against it, you won't receive subsidies). For Hungary, for example, it is not clear why the Hungarians have to sacrifice multi-billion contracts for the construction of two reactors of Paks nuclear power plant and the South Stream pipeline project - all for the sake of the phantom "Russian aggression." The South Stream project has become a symbol of European resistance, a touchstone for loyalty to Brussels.

Hungary does not welcome anti-Russian sanctions adopted by the United States and the EU. The country wants to cooperate, rather than be at feud with Moscow, the speaker of the Hungarian Parliament László Kövér said. Instructions from Brussels, he said, are about to bear a striking resemblance to Moscow of Soviet times. Should the EU follow this path, Hungary may consider an option to pull out from the Union, the speaker said. This is, of course, the most radical position, but other leaders share similar views on the subject.

"I have always said that they (sanctions - ed.) are just a small piece of the puzzle, a very undesirable one. The Austrians have always stood for political negotiations, and we will continue to insist on this in the future," said Austrian Chancellor Werner Faymann. Austria and its businesses also have strong connections with Russia. Thus, Raiffeisen Bank International receives a lot of its profit in Russia, whereas energy company OMV, together with Russia's Gazprom, is involved in the construction of South Stream pipeline.

We can not say that these governments like the Russian administration so much. Yet, they have no alternatives for cooperation. Thus, a request from the countries of the Visegrad group (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary) for the supply of liquefied natural gas from the United States in March of this year has sunk into oblivion.

Moscow, however, does not remain indifferent and tries to pull the rope. On 20 October and 5 November, the Russian capital hosted meetings of foreign businessmen with top Russian governmental officials. They talked about possible preference for the companies that, despite sanctions, decided to keep their productions in Russia. The Kommersant newspaper wrote that the businessmen felt "inspired" after the meetings. Economy will clamp down on politics. This will inevitably lead to a revolution of public opinion in Europe - from disunity to business partnerships with Russia. This brings up a question of whether the European Union is going to be single by that time.

The second set of issues that raises rejection of Brussels is related to the imposition of tolerance to moral corruption of the European society. "Laszlo Kover has very clearly spoke about the problems of the functioning of the European Union. European values are too far from us, we must determine our position about the future of the European Union ourselves," said Hungarian MEP Tamás Deutsch.

That's the key word - "values." Recent statements from Czech President Milos Zeman are particularly noticeable at this point. In a Sunday interview to a Czech radio station, he said that double standards were not acceptable in the assessment of Russia. In Russia, there are political parties, there are elections and opposition media, the Czech president said. It is foolish to say that Khodorkovsky is a political prisoner. He is just a financial swindler, and there are many of such swindlers in the Czech Republic too, Milos Zeman added. He also said that punk band Pussy Riot that received so much attention outside Russia, was a group of pornographic hooligans. "Do you know what 'pussy' means in English?" Zeman asked the journalist, and then voiced the translation of the word in Czech.

The interview triggered heated discussions in the Czech Republic of whether the president should refrain from obscenities in public speeches. Website lidovky.cz conducted a poll, asking people, whether the use of obscene words on the air was lawful. "It was disgusting," said 19 percent of respondents, "moderate" - 14 percent, and "I do not mind" - 67 percent.

In Slovakia, Prime Minister Robert Fico is also opposed to sanctions against Russia. Thus, the Constitutional Court authorized a referendum in protection of family and family values. The referendum was initiated by Slovak "Alliance of Families." In addition, in June, the Slovak Parliament supported by majority - 102 votes against 18 - a constitutional amendment defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman. The "Alliance of Families" collected 400,000 signatures for its petition in support of the referendum. The number of signatures exceeded the constitutionally required minimum of 350,000. One may also recollect large-scale demonstrations in Paris last year, when as many as 500,000 people took to the streets of the French capital protesting against the law legalizing gay marriage and adoptions of children by homosexual families.

The French National Front chaired by Marine Le Pen, as well as other nationalist parties of Europe may break the European Union from within - through the parliament, where about 30 percent of MEPs are already skeptical towards the EU in its current dictatorial form that ignores national interests. The National Front of France has been gaining ground steadily in the presidential race of 2017. In October, a group of MEPs, led by Marine Le Pen, having formed the blocking minority, voted against an accelerated legislative procedure to extend preferential treatment for Ukraine. The regime allowed the EU to unilaterally cut or lift customs duties on Ukrainian goods. Le Pen also urged Europe to "stop treating Russia only in negative terms at the behest of the United States. Old World countries need to have their own opinion, rather than repeat what the United States does," she said

Source:Three causes and two ways to break the European Union - English pravda.ru
 

HMS Astute

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It is the Euro that is powerful. No Euro, the value of the British Pound is mere paper that it is printed on.
I am not even going to bother to read the rest of your post, what utter bollocks. £ has always been a strong currency since before the Euro was created.

BoE is the one controls the value of £ and it is currently undervalued on purpose in order to make the British goods cheaper abroad and boost the exports.
 
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Ray

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I am not even going to bother to read the rest of your post, what utter bollocks. £ has always been a strong currency since before the Euro was created.

BoE is the one controls the value of £ and it is currently undervalued on purpose in order to make the British goods cheaper abroad and boost the exports.
Indeed you won't. There could be many reasons for that.

Amongst them being, one, your don't understand, and two, you have no facts to refute.

It is worth noting that while the UK is a net contributor to the EU to the tune of around £12bn a year. the EU is the UK's main trading partner, something worth more than £400bn a year to the UK economy.

Leave the EU and the market slips away because goods will get expensive as the trade, custom and other tariff will be imposed.
 
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HMS Astute

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Quite. You're completely ignorant about it and will never understand just simply because you're not British and of course you don't live in the UK which has been flooded by the immigrants and scroungers over the decades. You will not have any idea of how average Britons feel about the EU. It is neither trade or economy that they care, but the mass immigration, overcrowded hospitals, schools, public places, abuse of welfare, freedom, fraud benefits, illegal, British identity and culture etc.
 
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Ray

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Quite. You're completely ignorant about it and will never understand just simply because you're not British and of course you don't live in the UK which has been flooded by the immigrants and scroungers over the decades. You will not have any idea of how average Britons feel about the EU. It is neither trade or economy that they care, but the mass immigration, overcrowded hospitals, schools, public places, abuse of welfare, freedom, fraud benefits, illegal, British identity and culture etc.
As if India is free of political asylum seekers, refugees, immigrants, legal and illegal economic 'refugees' and even scroungers, not only in this decade, but throughout history, to include the British merchant turned Trojan horses, taking advantage of Indian magnanimity towards those who come as guests.

So, doctor heal thyself.

What really irks is not about anything else, for their are all excuses to justify your ire. The real reason is what you have written -British identity and culture that you find is vanishing given that you have quit having your tea and crumpets and instead are eating samosas and Chinese Jiaozi and not having insipid bully beef and Yorkshire pudding or the silly Shepard's Pie full of leftovers and not bathing except during weekends. And what is worse with all these multi coloured immigrants and their egalitarian attitude that you lump with fraudulent British PC, the Billingsgate crowd is getting irreverential to the nobs and even cocking the snook!

But then you are no policy maker of Britain and so you would only give vent to your chauvinist apprehensions. Understandable.

Now, here is something that should make you aware how the pennies fall.

If you and your politicians have the guts, then leave the EU.

As Oliver Cromwell said:
You have sat too long for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
That is the message of Merkel.
 
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santosh10

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London trades more Euro daily than the entire Eurozone countries combined together. London acts as a bridge between the western world and eastern world. Thanks to it's GMT 00:00 time zone where the time was invented, English "global business" language, long tradition in finance, history, fashion capital (sold more than New York), culture, influence, global clout, sports (more Olympics than New York), entertainment (O2 Arena sold more tickets than Madison Square Garden does), attractiveness, popularity (hence: the most visited city on earth), media, infrastructure, education (more top 10 world's best universities than New York), relationship with the commonwealth nations, US, EU (world's biggest economy i acknowledge), China (just announced to pour $170 billion and it has chosen London to become global hub for trading Chinese Yuan currency), Middle East, Africa and the rest of the world etc. I doubt London would lose it's position as a global player in many aspects even if the UK was not in the EU. Also the basic fairness and honesty of British law and bureaucracy is trusted over most of the planet. In fact, many of the world's emerging countries owe their own systems to it. On the other hand, US markets are seen by many in the finance industry as over-regulated--and too politicized--and that keeps New York from eclipsing London in spite of other advantages. Second, there is English as has been mentioned. And finally, there is simply a global comfort with London as a place to live, work and do business that Frankfurt won't match soon.

look, im more willing to be agreed with the post#11 , that, "EU without UK means a man without penis." i do have an experience to an extent too.....

but the economic state of UK is more or less as bad as the Eurozone as whole. for example, total National Debt on Eurozone is around 93% while for UK its around 92% to date too, more than twice to its pre-crisis level. and per capita income of Eurozone as whole is around 4% less than its peak of pre-crisis level, but even if UK has recovered its pre-crisis level by last quarter, its per capita income is still 4.5% less than early 2008, because of 4.5% population increase during this period. just come out of the bluffs of rankings you posted.....

as per what i understand, UK needs EU as much as EU needs UK, you simply aren't on any bargaining side because of economic reasons, as in my post#17. except the penis UK has, as per in post#11 :ranger:
 
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Android

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hmmmm, look, UK needs EU as much as EU needs UK. its nothing but as important partner as France, Germany of EU28, even if we now put Italy, Spain on the lower side, the 4th and 5th largest economies of EU28.

i guess, breakup of UK with EU28 will affect bit more than the scenario when France leave EU28, and it would be bit less important as compare to the case if Germany threaten to leave EU28 :ranger:

Eurozone in full mess at present, and things will get tougher if UK leaves EU28. and its not the case that UK itself will be on any better side this way, definitely no .....

=> Gexit Is Better Than Grexit
well, decision of breakup from any of the EU's major economies could hit the Union hard,it could either lead to other lookin' at a similar option of or there would be a retaliatory reaction,on economic and political tems plus the business sentiments and other stuffs could either make or break anyone who moves of of EU,better they remain together,though it wouldn't last for ever.
 

santosh10

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world is changing and things are very unstable in EU at present, we must avoid any break-up, which would only make the things worse, uncontrollable. Eurozone GDP is still around 2% lower than its pre-crisis level of early 2008, along with more than twice national debt since then, well closed to 93% at present. and i have mentioned before, even if UK has recovered its pre-crisis level, its per capita income adjusting inflation is still 4.5% lower, around, due to population growth since early 2008, along with twice national debt since then too, well over 90%.....

EU now need to work together, more united than before, we now want them more co-operating with each others. and this type of news only shows the growing frustration which must also be avoided :thumb:
 

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