USA China Cold War

Tshering22

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So after US-Soviet Cold, time is riping in the disintegration of another monster which is eating up land/sea/air of other countries and threatning all of it's 14 odd neighbours in daily warnings and intimidation.

China was growing in power since 1950's specially after occupation of Tibet and no one cared much as it somehow fought against Axis powers(read Japan) and world was tired of WW's. Recently in last 2 decades China became the factory of the world and earned lot of $$$ and sourced it's indigenized military infra based on reverse engineering(read theft) of Russia.



We can't stay out of it completely as we did earlier. China is intimidating us for quite a while now and needs to be taught a lesson or else we would see our land grabbed again in Ladakh and NE. A land/sea/air grabber neighbor like China is not in the interest of the world specially for Asia.

Disintegration of China is now mandatory due to these reasons:-

1. Chinese arrogance and DAILY intimidation of all it's 14 odd neighbors.
2. Grabbing land/sea/air of it's neighbors.
3. Spreading Virus and death to 3,50,000* worldwide.
4. Loss of Trillions due to Virus!
5. #1 supporter of Pakistan which is the #1 terrorist creator in the world.
6. #1 supporter of DPRK which is making nukes and threatening the world peace.

A weak China would also mean a weak Pakistan and Pakistan also SHOULD disintegrate as well. Also we can't have a 2 front war danger all the time. One front to be knocked out at least!

World would like to see something like this as the outcome of this new cold war.

View attachment 48852

In any case Tibet SHOULD be freed again as a buffer zone. Moreover India should make sure that Tibet raise a military of it's own with the help of others. They should not become parasite on India and should learn to fight and sacrifice if they really want a "Free Tibet". Enough of their Tibeti bazaar in India and useless self immolation in Tibet.

View attachment 48851
Tibetans are far more responsible and respectful than the 18 crore-odd (I am being generous here giving some portion of the people the benefit of the doubt) useless shantidoots we have in the name of secularism that set Bengaluru and Delhi on fire in the last one year. I'd rather have Tibetans as citizens than these losers.

But yes, they should get their country back. One little issue with your first map; there is no separate Manchurian people now. The Manchus have all been absorbed into the Han identity. They are trying to do that with inner Mongolians but now they are fighting back.

East Ladakh is assigned to Turkestan in the map; we need to take that back as a priority. Once we secure our territory back, then we can think about dismantling the rest. But it is going to be one hell of a task. However, PLA will be fighting with one eye behind their head when dealing with us, since they are paranoid about a US-Japan strike on their heartland.

Gives us the perfect opportunity to involve Vietnam as well by giving them serious commitments of weapons support, training and time-bound benefits of bilateral relationship.
 

Tshering22

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Interesting, I found that nationalists are similar. In chinese social media, many people argue a similar question like here: How to disintergrate indian to many entities. LOL.
Perhaps so.

We already did that throughout our history of losing the erstwhile territories to Muslims. Not making that mistake again.

Speaking of which, you really need to tell your president to stop this territorial expansionism. We are the best possible neighbours you can get and you are throwing it all away. Instead of making us your allies like how the EU does, you are turning us into your enemies and giving the US a stronger reason to stay in Asia.
 

Tshering22

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Interesting, I found that nationalists are similar. In chinese social media, many people argue a similar question like here: How to disintergrate indian to many entities. LOL.
Perhaps so.

We already did that throughout our history of losing the erstwhile territories to Muslims. Not making that mistake again.

Speaking of which, you really need to tell your president to stop this territorial expansionism. We are the best possible neighbours you can get and you are throwing it all away. Instead of making us your allies like how the EU does, you are turning us into your enemies and giving the US a stronger reason to stay in Asia.

Picture this alternate scenario that your government could have taken:

China:

  1. Returned Aksai Chin back
  2. Demarcated the border through mutual discussion
  3. Supported India based on the Instrument of Accession of Jammu & Kashmir

The result?

  1. India would have opened up the border much like Nepal and Bhutan.
  2. Rapid China-Nepal-India and China-Bhutan-India infrastructure developments and even China-Bhutan-India-Bangladesh development work.
  3. This would have led to prosperity being shared by all the countries between us.
  4. All trans-Himalayan routes are opened up for the goods made in interior China and eastern India
  5. Chinese cities get friendly and direct access to India's warm-water ports in the Arabian Sea, Indian Ocean and the Bay of Bengal with no military conditions
    • All the goods from Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Mumbai, Kolkata, Gangtok, etc. could have been transferred by roads instead of costly flights and time-consuming shipping.
  6. Visa-free travel and trade between India and China leading to greater people-to-people connection
  7. Return of Buddhist Tibetans to their ancestral land within Chinese rule, just living a normal life
  8. With full Kashmir including PoK in India, your BELT ROAD INITIATIVE could have touched from Shanghai to Chennai port, further touching all the port cities of India as well as critical commercial hubs.
  9. China could also have become a transit point for trade from Russia, Japan and Korea to India as well; You could have literally become the China that you already are, along with becoming another Singapore.
  10. Dozens of massive pipeline networks of gas and oil could have flowed from Russia, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, etc. directly into China, through northernmost tips of India without having any risk of Pakistani Islamist activities.
These 10 points above would have resulted in the creation of a US-Canada sort of relationship between us.
2,500 years of friendship would have continued without any interruptions. Together, we could have joined forces, even made peace with South Korea and Japan to form a sort of Asian NATO that protects the region from terrorism, extremism, violence and provides aid against the increasing natural disasters.

Basically, all the things that could lead to an Association of Asian Nations (AAN) that could have dwarfed the European Union in N number of ways.

The possibilities were literally endless and the factors favouring this development were so many - we share the oldest continuous diplomatic relations in the world as civilizational countries. Entire EU could have been awed with this partnership.

The only small loss (if you call it that) for you would have been a basket case Pakistan which is anyway not doing anything for your economy.

But your president Xi just threw away the chance you had to achieve all this without shedding a single drop of blood and losing nothing of your own.

Instead,
  1. You antagonize Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, Tajikistan, Bhutan & intimidate Sri Lanka, Nepal, Maldives & Myanmar through economic colonialism.
  2. Heck, you didn't even spare Russia's territory; the country that literally made you and industrial powerhouse during the Soviet era.
  3. You support terrorism against us by supplying Pakistan, a nation that if you were in our place, even you wouldn't have agreed
  4. Oppose India on every forum internationally that you see
Your economic growth was existent till the time you claimed peaceful rise. But now everyone in the West, as well as everyone in the east, is against you. You have an oscillating & unpredictable level of control over the white elephant ports that you have in Hambantota (Sri Lanka), Sittwe (Myanmar), Male (Maldives), etc. As governments change, so does your level of control and political sway with them.

The only port that is on proper control for your needs in the subcontinent, is Gwadar. That too is not in the control of the country in which it is located. Internal unrest and past atrocities of the governments there have resulted in the locals feeling alienated around Gwadar and see anyone colluding with the Pakistani government as 'enemy'.

Opening a military base in Eritrea is good for keeping a watch over your shipping lanes, but you gain no control, except in one-sided fights like anti-piracy operations.

Since your civil war ended in 1949, China has only expanded. Recognizing our official map for you would have been at no loss. In fact, even the controversial topic of Dalai Lama willing to not separate could have been settled if you had shown sincerity in your pursuit of growth and peace.

But your rulers did not even think about all this.

You don't have to agree with me right away but think about the points that I have written here with a cool head.
 

Tshering22

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This is interesting. A democratic alliance to take on huwei . If it takes shape it will challange all Chinese initiative .

Since it includes 10 of the 12 largest economies of the world barring China and Russia. It will decimate china completely in every tech and economic field.
I wonder if Russia would jump ships soon. I personally like Putin and their way of ruling is theirs, but the West also should shed its treatment of Russians like some evil monsters, to further dent the already-tense relations between China and Russia. Russians were visibly pissed off when the Chinese diplomats criticized their celebration of Vladivostok city's founding.

The 1969 war between USSR and China is fresh in the minds of Russians even today on the Damanskii island.
 

shade

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I wonder if Russia would jump ships soon. I personally like Putin and their way of ruling is theirs, but the West also should shed its treatment of Russians like some evil monsters, to further dent the already-tense relations between China and Russia. Russians were visibly pissed off when the Chinese diplomats criticized their celebration of Vladivostok city's founding.

The 1969 war between USSR and China is fresh in the minds of Russians even today on the Damanskii island.
Their national psyche has the fear of the "numberless yellow hordes" thanks to their experience with the Mongols.
During Soviet times their fear was that 50 million Chinese would simply cross over into the Siberian/Far East region and take over.
Western trickery against them is the more serious immediate issue though, which is why they have "allied" with China.
If the Russians could have helped the situation, they would.
Even in terms of Arms sales they prefer us over the Chinese, atleast we are good guy consumers, the Chinese buy 20 pieces, and produce 2000 after reverse engineering the item in question, and selling them for cheap to countries using Russian equipment.
 

Tshering22

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Their national psyche has the fear of the "numberless yellow hordes" thanks to their experience with the Mongols.
During Soviet times their fear was that 50 million Chinese would simply cross over into the Siberian/Far East region and take over.
Western trickery against them is the more serious immediate issue though, which is why they have "allied" with China.
If the Russians could have helped the situation, they would.
Even in terms of Arms sales they prefer us over the Chinese, atleast we are good guy consumers, the Chinese buy 20 pieces, and produce 2000 after reverse engineering the item in question, and selling them for cheap to countries using Russian equipment.
By jumping ship I mean ditching them completely.

That may not be possible since China and Russia have 30-year $400 billion oil contracts.

If we had POK with us, we could have easily supplemented this.
 

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'When China curtailed political freedoms in Hong Kong this summer, two rival declarations circulated at the United Nations Human Rights Council. One, drafted by Cuba and commending Beijing’s move, won the backing of 53 nations. Another, issued by the U.K. and expressing concern, secured 27 supporters.

'China’s show of strength was just the latest diplomatic triumph in Beijing’s drive to sway the system of international organizations in its direction. As the Trump administration stepped back from many parts of the multilateral order established after World War II, China has emerged a chief beneficiary, intensifying a methodical, decade-long campaign.

'Beijing is pushing its civil servants, or those of clients and partners, to the helm of U.N. institutions that set global standards for air travel, telecommunications and agriculture. Gaining influence at the U.N. permits China to stifle international scrutiny of its behavior at home and abroad. In March, Beijing won a seat on a five-member panel that selects U.N. rapporteurs on human-rights abuses—officials who used to target Beijing for imprisoning more than a million Uighurs at so-called re-education camps in Xinjiang.

'Washington has recently attempted to counter this effort at the U.N., cajoling and wooing countries around the world. Those efforts, hamstrung by damaged relationships with partners and allies, have had a limited impact so far.

'China’s success raises a conundrum for the U.S. and its allies. After the Soviet Union fell, these nations expected the U.N. to become a mechanism to promote democracy and human rights. Now, in a dynamic increasingly reminiscent of the Cold War, Beijing’s clout at the U.N. instead helps the Chinese Communist Party legitimize its claim to be a superior alternative to Western democracies.

“It’s China’s sense that this is ‘our’ moment, and we need to take control of these bodies,” said Ashok Malik, senior policy adviser at India’s foreign ministry. “If you control important levers of these institutions, you influence norms, you influence ways of thinking, you influence international policy, you inject your way of thinking.”

'Chinese President Xi Jinping, addressing the U.N. General Assembly this month, called for the organization to play a “central role in international affairs,” particularly amid the coronavirus pandemic. “The global governance system should adapt itself to evolving global political and economic dynamics,” he added, an allusion to China’s rising clout and its perceptions of a U.S. decline.

'The Trump administration views the U.N. system as divided into parts that Washington should fight to fix and those that are beyond repair, U.S. officials said. In July, the administration began withdrawing from the World Health Organization, saying the U.N. agency’s deference to China at the outset of the pandemic allowed the virus to spread.

'Many U.S. allies say that abandoning the field by leaving organizations like the WHO offers China a strategic gift. Their concerns have been heightened in recent months as Beijing chastised democratic countries for speaking out on Hong Kong and Xinjiang, and engaged in deadly border clashes with India.

“The U.S. is withdrawing from multilateralism to our great regret, and the Chinese are moving in,” said Hans Blix, a former Swedish diplomat who chaired the U.N.’s weapon-inspection program in Iraq.'
 

SanjeevM

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Australia Rejects To Be A Part of China's BRI And Cancels Projects - What Next Is In Store?

 

Leonardo Alves

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From the famous FOREIGN POLICY which has history of it's editor asking blatantly for USA base in andaman to publishing a non-combatant voice on NO F-16 WAS DOWNED with IAF to latest INDIA BEING A QUASI-DEMOCRACY these guys are showing their true colors very fast.

This emma Ashford is calling INDIA A QUASI-DEMOCRACY just because her dear ISLAMISTS and PRASHANT KISHORE as well as TMC goons are not in power.

Really, what modi is trying to achieve by going to g-7? when we have a MAIL president at the helm of USA which is blatantly more anti-black, more anti-refugees than so called TRUMP yet still being called democracy champion.

Just read at this article by this foreign policy guys and hope this is not what these foreign heads so called champions of fakocracy thinks and she is mother of two, why I am mentioning this? because madam mentioned it.

And LET me end with it that this woman INDIRECTLY is saying CO-OPERATE with china.

 

ezsasa

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Sinopec and Venture Global LNG signed a 20-year long-term purchase and sale agreement of 4 million tons per year of liquefied natural gas (LNG) on Thursday. This is the largest long-term LNG contract signed by China and the US so far.

 

sorcerer

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China's Attempts To Prevent US-India Ties From Deepening, Unsuccessful: Pentagon

The United States Pentagon said that China has unsuccessfully sought to prevent US-India ties from deepening and that it is "taking incremental and tactical actions" to press its claims at the Line of Actual Control (LAC).



I would say even the FoN exercise conducted by US ship in Indian territorial waters was a plan of china ..much chinese stooges in American forces!

well! like Australia..who knows how corrupted the US navy is!
 

ezsasa

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From Nov. 27 to Dec. 13, 1950, about 30,000 U.S. and allied troops withstood the sledgehammer of 12 Chinese Divisions and then conducted a fighting retreat to Hungnam, where they were evacuated to South Korea. The escape to Hungnam was so perilous that when a reporter asked Smith about ordering a retreat the general responded: “Retreat, hell! We’re not retreating; we’re advancing in a different direction.”
The parents of current South Korean President Moon Jae-in
were among the refugees evacuated from Hungnam in 1950.
China’s biggest movie is about how a US Marine division held off 12 Chinese divisions

 

ezsasa

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Japan didn’t magically fail.

The US has occupied Japan continuously since WW2. And wrote its constitution. So, it had root control in a way it never did over China.

I’d long suspected this was used to punch Japan under the table somehow. Then I found a book on the topic…

1638333304970.png


 

Hari Sud

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Cold War end will be when US-China also disengage economically. Right now US is so much dependent on China for consumer goods (one single source) and some supply chain products that no disengagement is possible. That is why that propaganda from both sides makes it look like Cold War. Behind the scene it is pally-pally. Otherwise why would US and Chinese presidents hold one to one discussions. This was not a one hour chit chat. It was two hours serious discussion. What transpired during the discussions,….. nobody knows. But as immediately the Chinese Threat of Taiwan takeover has died down. Biden has also called off his private covert as well otherwise investigation of Covid virus Origin. Everybody knows it came from Wuhan Lab but Biden let Chinese off the hook. In return, the Chinese called off their postured invasion of Taiwan.

What an arrangement……
 

Tshering22

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Japan didn’t magically fail.

The US has occupied Japan continuously since WW2. And wrote its constitution. So, it had root control in a way it never did over China.

I’d long suspected this was used to punch Japan under the table somehow. Then I found a book on the topic…

View attachment 122528

The US has no ideological enemies; only industrial and political competition. And China has the Americans by their economic balls. Make no mistake, USA will not even touch the Chinese the day they land in Taiwan. Think about it; how many American movies in the last 3 decades, fictional or real-life have shown the Chinese as the enemy, as compared to Russians, Muslims, Serbs, etc.?

While movies are considered an exaggeration in the rest of the world, a lot of what goes into Hollywood reflects the mindset that the US deep-state itself has - a cautious one when it comes to China.
 

cannonfodder

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I hate to say this but US is not in good position to win this one. It is sad that the strength of US that is corporation are being used to chip away all advantage.

Only thing that can save US from losing is CCP itself in form of bad economics like evergrande. Otherwise its just waiting game for 1-2 decades and CCP will defacto conrtrol US via its leverage on corporates and compromised politicians.

Question is if yankees have fight in them, current resistance is only from non-organised retail investors who raise red flags on investing highlighting botched up CCP companies, but they also don't object to low cost manufacturing in Chin.
 
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Shashank Nayak

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The paki press release does not explicitly mention this though.
=========

Pakistan not to participate in President Biden's Democracy Summit.


View attachment 123908

View attachment 123909
Is this real..:facepalm::megusta:
They are on IMF dole.. The US could wreck their economy in a day. But, they have got more Spine than India..

But our Modi is going to the Circus, only to be lectured by ice cream licking Biden, on how to run a Democracy..
Man, for a beggar nation, Pakistan has always displayed huge risk appetite
..
 

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