United Kingdom is a third rate power

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Oracle

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Your theory that a third party nationals may seek to use military internet forums to stir dissent between people who have no quarrel may have merit.

In addition, the suggestion that those people may be English "native speakers" may also be plausible.

What actions do you suggest to resolve matters because this row has been blown out of all proportion?
IMHO, I don't know.

I am not in ARRSE, so can't comment on it. I have read some posts on the fly. But I don't and won't tag Britain as racist, as I had not had any such treatment. Being called a Paki sometimes,I didn't mind. Those folks probably hated Pakis, and most from the sub continent have the same skin tone.

The only way I see it is to talk about it and while doing so understand that none is infallible while we discuss the past and present, for that would help build or burn the people to people relations of the future. So while Indians discuss Churchill, the other party should have an open mind about their war hero. And while our poverty is talked about, we should be open to ideas on how to eradicate it. And ignore the doucebags.
 

Bangalorean

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IMHO, I don't know.

I am not in ARRSE, so can't comment on it. I have read some posts on the fly. But I don't and won't tag Britain as racist, as I had not had any such treatment. Being called a Paki sometimes,I didn't mind. Those folks probably hated Pakis, and most from the sub continent have the same skin tone.

The only way I see it is to talk about it and while doing so understand that none is infallible while we discuss the past and present, for that would help build or burn the people to people relations of the future. So while Indians discuss Churchill, the other party should have an open mind about their war hero. And while our poverty is talked about, we should be open to ideas on how to eradicate it. And ignore the doucebags.
I agree that Britain is not a racist country in general. But I am surprised that you were called a Paki "sometimes". I cannot believe that people have called you a 'Paki' on your face. And I am even more surprised that you didn't mind.

It is not acceptable to call an Indian a "Paki" - that is the reason for the existence of the other thread, about the propensity of the Brit media to lump everyone as "Asians". The Brit media is partly the culprit for failing to teach their people the difference between and Indian and a Paki.
 

Ray

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You will not be infracted for no reason and your posting rights taken away. I can say that with some authority :D
I second that!

This forum is not a Circus as some forums we have seen! ;)

Fair play, democracy and justice prevails!
 

Ray

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Oh dear. More musings from Ray. Can I just put these on hold as I'm dealing with three threads at the mo and need to go out.

Ray, you need to put all of your musings down in a little book. We can then all look at it and wonder in amazement at such profound teachings.....



Still got the seat and the empire went yonks ago. You can have it as far as I'm concerned. The UN is frankly a toothless tiger.


India is playing ball with the US, but on India's terms and not being a toady!


Yep, like a lapdog or poodle. Gotta keep in with the Yanks. then again, isn't that what India is trying to do?



Yes, these musings should be put in a little book. Call it something like 'The Musings of Chairman Ray'

It'll be a best seller, no doubt ;)
Musing of Chariman?

I rather have them as Stray Thought, like our PM Indira Gandhi.

A seat in a toothless organisation like the UN with a toothless grin since nothing can come out that is constructive..
 
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Godless-Kafir

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420 of what type of tank? One of, if not the best tank in the world? Please tell me how many Challenger 2's have been destroyed by enamy fire?
I agree challanger is one if the best tanks in the world, i was responding to the commie who keeps bugging about India being nothing. However the challenger went against Iraqi tanks which where not modernized more over they rolled with USA as pack. India on the other hand has 5000MBTs and 1000 are brand new T-90s and 500 will be Arjuns of various marks and the remaining T-72s will be modernized with commander sights, gunner sights with IR, data links etc.


Brits acknowledge where our language came from. Perhaps you'd be good enough to acknowledge which language you are speaking and why?
Yes, British language is part of the Indo-european family and descends from Germanic Anglo-saxsons, probably long ago Indians, Central asians, Europeans all lived in one family before they parted ways. The R-haplogroup shares the same language which has mutated over time. For example star (English), str- (Sanskrit), tara (Hindi-Urdu), stjärna (Swedish) sterk (Kurdish).

I speak 5 indian languages, the only time i spoke english today was when i said bye to a guest and now at night on the net i post here. Other wise it was all Indian dialects through out the day. The world wont end if we stoped english but it may be in serious difficulty if we stoped useing numerals.
 
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Tianshan

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If India is such a global power, why are they backing away from China? Giving up land?
maybe their politicians are leading them astray.

We're a power alright. Force projection. Seat on the UN security council. But then, we don't have to brag about it or 'willy wave' about some mil bit of kit we;re acquiring over here.
all i know is that people who are secure in their power don't need to brag about it.

the "old world powers" generally don't need to brag, with the exception perhaps of the usa.

china and india are big braggarts recently. but in actual reality there is still a very long way to go before we can start to catch up with any of the old powers in comprehensive national power. that is the reality, that some people here cannot see.
 

civfanatic

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In what way does the U.K. have more "comprehensive national power" (whatever that means) than China or India?
 

Tianshan

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In what way does the U.K. have more "comprehensive national power" (whatever that means) than China or India?
in terms of pure hard power, both their nominal gdp and defence budgets are way higher than india's. they have power projection, they are fighting wars all over the world, something which neither china or india has shown the ability to do.

soft power is where they shine though, surpassing both china and india combined.

in terms of soft power, they (along with america) have a monopoly on most of the english-language media in the world, as well as massive cultural influence and diplomatic influence in the world. give me a list of all the "major international news" outlets, and they are all either american or british.

jingoism is quite funny at times, but at some point you have to be realistic.
 

Tianshan

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ok sure, overseas chinese will watch chinese movies, and overseas indians will watch indian movies.

but EVERYONE else watches american and british movies.

even something as silly as "harry potter" or something less silly like "james bond" are currently the two biggest grossing movie series in the entire world.
 

civfanatic

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in terms of pure hard power, both their nominal gdp and defence budgets are way higher than india's. they have power projection, they are fighting wars all over the world, something which neither china or india has shown the ability to do.
You should know that purchasing power is a more accurate means of comparing total economic output between countries than nominal GDP. The relative cost of factors of production should be taken into account.

By the way, how does electricity consumption and production compare between India and the U.K.? How about steel production and consumption? There goes your "hard power".

Indeed, Britain has a higher defence budget than India (on paper anyway). God knows what they spend it on, and how India has procured so much equipment while Britain doesn't even have an aircraft carrier.

Indian forces have been deployed overseas numerous times as part of U.N. peacekeeping missions; we have a good record in Africa. It's not much different than what the British are doing in Afghanistan.



in terms of soft power, they (along with america) have a monopoly on most of the english-language media in the world, as well as massive cultural influence and diplomatic influence in the world. give me a list of all the "major international news" outlets, and they are all either american or british.
Even though the soft power associated with English is almost totally controlled by America today, I will agree with you that British soft power is far greater than that of India and China. In fact, the legacy of the Empire is the only thing that keeps Britain somewhat relevant today.


jingoism is quite funny at times, but at some point you have to be realistic.
Indeed.
 

Tianshan

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You should know that purchasing power is a more accurate means of comparing total economic output between countries than nominal GDP. The relative cost of factors of production should be taken into account.
no, it really is not.

according to the imf, nominal gdp should always be used when comparing internationally, between two different nations.

Even though the soft power associated with English is almost totally controlled by America today, I will agree with you that British soft power is far greater than that of India and China. In fact, the legacy of the Empire is the only thing that keeps Britain somewhat relevant today.
yes the power itself lies more in american hands.

however it is still anglo-american influence. they work in tandem.
 
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trackwhack

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in terms of pure hard power, both their nominal gdp and defence budgets are way higher than india's. they have power projection, they are fighting wars all over the world, something which neither china or india has shown the ability to do.

soft power is where they shine though, surpassing both china and india combined.

in terms of soft power, they (along with america) have a monopoly on most of the english-language media in the world, as well as massive cultural influence and diplomatic influence in the world. give me a list of all the "major international news" outlets, and they are all either american or british.

jingoism is quite funny at times, but at some point you have to be realistic.
Reality Check my friend. Evrything you have mentioned in terms of power projection and fighting wars have resulted in the following state of affairs.

1) Government Debt
Britain : 80% of GDP
China : 35% of GDP
India : 55% of GDP

2) Household Debt
Britain : 96% of GDP
China : 28% of GDP
India : 9% of GDP

3) Bank Debt
Britain : 220% of GDP
China : 30% of GDP
India : 10% of GDP

4) Corporate Debt
Britain : 105% of GDP
China : 103% of GDP
India : 47% of GDP


Approximate National debt

Britain : 510% of GDP
China : 190% of GDP
India : 125% of GDP.


Now lets look at debt servicing. The interest as offered by the treasury of the united states (safest debt) is about 3%. Lets assume that all of UK's debts are as safe as US treasury bonds. at 3% interest, currently the UK is paying 15% of its annual GDP in servicing the interests on debts. Not serving the principal. Only the interest.

If we look at total debt by country, the UK is THE MOST indebted country in the world as a percentage of GDP.

Comprehensive power, my ass!
 

Tianshan

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official imf figures show china's debt to gdp at around 30%. so your "approximate" thing above is way off.

america has the biggest debt in the world as an actual nominal figure, but no one questions their power. not even their biggest rivals.
 

trackwhack

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no, it really is not.

according to the imf, nominal gdp should always be used when comparing internationally, between two different nations.



yes the power itself lies more in american hands.

however it is still anglo-american influence. they work in tandem.
hahaha. nice one.

A loaf of bread in the UK sells for a pound and the same sells in India for 20 pence. Against India's national productivity 20 cents gets added, against Britains national productivity 1 pound gets added. Sure nominal GDP is the accurate measure.
 

civfanatic

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no, it really is not.

according to the imf, nominal gdp should always be used when comparing internationally, between two different nations.
Nominal GDP is used when talking about international trade and cross-border transactions, which are based on market exchange rates.

We are not talking about international trade, but the national wealth (i.e. total economic output) of India compared to the U.K.
 

trackwhack

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official imf figures show china's debt to gdp at around 30%. so your "approximate" thing above is way off.
Official IMF figure showing 30% is china's government debt, which as I have stated above is 35% of GDP not 30%. go back to school. Try to learn what I have detailed above and then come back with less retarded arguments.
 

Tianshan

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Official IMF figure showing 30% is china's government debt, which as I have stated above is 35% of GDP not 30%. go back to school. Try to learn what I have detailed above and then come back with less retarded arguments.
retarded haha yes, i know this is how you try to win arguments.

you haven't actually replied to anything i have said, apart from personal attacks.

hahaha. nice one.

A loaf of bread in the UK sells for a pound and the same sells in India for 20 pence. Against India's national productivity 20 cents gets added, against Britains national productivity 1 pound gets added. Sure nominal GDP is the accurate measure.
ok, you are anonymous internet poster yet you somehow have more knowledge than the imf.

good, no problem.
 

Tianshan

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hard power - nominal gdp, defence spending, power projection

soft power - cultural influence, anglo-american control over international news media, the ability to pull in immigrants

like i said, even something silly like "harry potter" has broken all international records for biggest selling movie series in the world. their influence is everywhere, but where is china's influence in britain apart from chinese restaurants?

time to be realistic. comprehensive national power is a sum of all things.
 

trackwhack

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hard power - nominal gdp, defence spending, power projection

soft power - cultural influence, anglo-american control over international news media, the ability to pull in immigrants

like i said, even something silly like "harry potter" has broken all international records for biggest selling movie series in the world. their influence is everywhere, but where is china's influence in britain apart from chinese restaurants?

time to be realistic. comprehensive national power is a sum of all things.
stop giving gyan. respond to the data presented to you.

time to be realistic. there is a reason why britain made such a big fuss about the eurofighter deal. britain is broke. they are at best a regional military power.
 
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