Understanding Deobandis, Barelvis, Wahabis, and Shias

[Mad Indian]

This thread has gone as usual, yawn

You yourself agreed Islam needs reform. Don't back out of it now.

Anyway, let's put this in a neutral perspective. Has anyone said that Xtians are a threat to modern/progressive India ? Has anyone called Jews a threat? Buddhist? Sikhs? Jains? So why are the Muslims being singled out? OK if Indians are bad that way, let's leave Indians out of it. Are Muslims happy with any of the western worlds that has accepted them? Are the non Muslims anywhere in the world happy with Muslims? In UK, USA, France ,EU, hundreds of news come everyday about why Islam is a threat and hundreds of BS articles about Islamophobia . why do I not read about Hindu ghettos becoming criminal or Jew ghettos becoming criminals or Buddhist ghettos being terrorist breeding grounds?

Every non muslim country in the world has problem with muslims but of course the problem is never within us and its always from the outside world right?

Besides, I completely don't understand the logic that we (non muslims) should be more understanding of Muslims. The onus is never on us. Nor should we be the ones who should bring reforms into Islam . So seriously, what steps have been taken for reforming it? Are we non Muslims supposed to put up with the nutcases in Islam until the supposed reform which may never even come?

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

This part is true. You don't even have to go look for reasons. They themselves gave the reason- Partition was unislamic as the concept of nation state or a state based on Islam is unislamic. That is why they opposed partition. They were not that smart to think they can outbreed(giving them credit of being smart would imply giving them the ability to act smart and probably reform in future) nor did they do it out of patriotism (as the leftist apologists shamelessly bull shit around). It was all because of their dogmatic belief in Islam.


What we have to understand is that dogmatic belief is what makes them dangerous in the first place!

While they quoted the reason but do not discount their smartness here. They were forward looking in the sense that they knew larger India meant larger playground for them. Deoband was found to restore Islamic glory in Hindustan after the British mauled them after 1857 and converting whole India was/is their unfinished task.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

You yourself agreed Islam needs reform. Don't back out of it now.

Anyway, let's put this in a neutral perspective. Has anyone said that Xtians are a threat to modern/progressive India ? Has anyone called Jews a threat? Buddhist? Sikhs? Jains? So why are the Muslims being singled out? OK if Indians are bad that way, let's leave Indians out of it. Are Muslims happy with any of the western worlds that has accepted them? Are the non Muslims anywhere in the world happy with Muslims? In UK, USA, France ,EU, hundreds of news come everyday about why Islam is a threat and hundreds of BS articles about Islamophobia . why do I not read about Hindu ghettos becoming criminal or Jew ghettos becoming criminals or Buddhist ghettos being terrorist breeding grounds?

Every non muslim country in the world has problem with muslims but of course the problem is never within us and its always from the outside world right?

Besides, I completely don't understand the logic that we (non muslims) should be more understanding of Muslims. The onus is never on us. Nor should we be the ones who should bring reforms into Islam . So seriously, what steps have been taken for reforming it? Are we non Muslims supposed to put up with the nutcases in Islam until the supposed reform which may never even come?

You cannot and should not reform Islam. Understanding is needed to save yourself.

 

[Rowdy]

You cannot and should not reform Islam. Understanding is needed to save yourself.

Now Islam .... REAL HARDCORE ISLAM will soon hit the communists in the EU

 

[Mad Indian]

As for the apologetic Mindus, seriously you are biggest obstacle to reform in Islam. You guys provide the perfect cover for the continuation of 7th century barbarity in it.

For heavens sake have some intellectual honesty. We got rid of casteism and sati by vilification and by apologetic bull shit. Reform can't happen if you morons jeep providing perfect cover for the islamists

 

[Yusuf]

You yourself agreed Islam needs reform. Don't back out of it now.

Anyway, let's put this in a neutral perspective. Has anyone said that Xtians are a threat to modern/progressive India ? Has anyone called Jews a threat? Buddhist? Sikhs? Jains? So why are the Muslims being singled out? OK if Indians are bad that way, let's leave Indians out of it. Are Muslims happy with any of the western worlds that has accepted them? Are the non Muslims anywhere in the world happy with Muslims? In UK, USA, France ,EU, hundreds of news come everyday about why Islam is a threat and hundreds of BS articles about Islamophobia . why do I not read about Hindu ghettos becoming criminal or Jew ghettos becoming criminals or Buddhist ghettos being terrorist breeding grounds?

Every non muslim country in the world has problem with muslims but of course the problem is never within us and its always from the outside world right?

Besides, I completely don't understand the logic that we (non muslims) should be more understanding of Muslims. The onus is never on us. Nor should we be the ones who should bring reforms into Islam . So seriously, what steps have been taken for reforming it? Are we non Muslims supposed to put up with the nutcases in Islam until the supposed reform which may never even come?

Off course it needs reform. I just yawned

 

[Mad Indian]

Off course it needs reform. I just yawned

If people like you(liberal and progressive ones) are not willing to take it up, I don't know who will

I just now lost any hope I had for reform in Islam

 

[Rowdy]

This thread has gone as usual, yawn

Dude do something about all the ass-troll-logers/vashikaran specialists spreading Shirk on our forum

 

[Rowdy]

hope I had

............................................................................................................

 

[Rowdy]

Who ever following or believing 'Terrorist Manuel+Pe** terrorist Prophet' are Terrorists.Plain& Simple

If kafirs are there

Sunni+Shia+Sufi+Ahmadi are bhai bhai..... Pre Independence India

No kafirs

Sunni+Shia+Sufi are bhai bhai, Ahmadi's are Kafirs.... Pak after Partition

After killing Kafir Ahmadi

Sunni+Shia declares Sufi's are Kafirs...... All Islamic countries&Sharia law

they are also gone

Sunni declares Shias are kafirs....... Present day Pak/Sunni ISIS lands

If shia's are also gone

Then barelvi declare deobandis as kafirs vice versa........ Future Pakistan

then
Taliban and ISIS declare each other as Kafirs.... Present day Afghanistan.

Religion of pieces flow chart.

............................................................................................................................................................

 

[parijataka]

Have not gone through all the posts, but here's my 2 paisa worth. It is not Shias or Sunnis or Barelvis that is the problem - unless and until Islam undergoes the kind of Enlightenment that Christianity underwent it will keep giving rise to violent fundamentalists. The Kuran exhorts the follower to kill infidels if not submitting to Islam among many other deeply misogynistic and cruel instructions/punishments - this is what is followed by the violent followers, whether Sunni or Shia. The worst thing is the Kuran is taken to be the Final word of God and immutable by its followers so reform is difficult or even impossible.

It is a myth that Sufis were peace loving and tolerant - it is just that they were more into un-Islamic pursuits like music. Afaik one of the Sufi saints wrote to Nadir Shah to come and invade India to convert the infidels.

As for Muslims themselves they are just like any other group of people with equal number of carckpots, geniuses and the average Joe. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.

 

[Varahamihira]

When Muslims got 100% reservation(partition) most of the Muslim sects(Sunni,Shia,Ahmedi,etc) killed Hindus and Sikhs in their pure land.Now they are killing each other branding other Muslims sects as non-Muslims.

And those praising Sufis,why forget Moinuddin Chisti inviting barbarians like Ghori to wage a war against India to convert it to Islam.Ghori repeatedly Gangraped Samyukhta in front of Prithviraj Chauhan.During Chisti's time most the temples around his Dargah(which was built later) were razed because they belonged to Kafirs.

People like Dr.Kalam are very rare and Sufis doesn't come any where near to people like him.

And there are dolts who believe all religions are same in terms of cruelty.
So help me understand how many millions of other religions or in Hindu religion itself did Hindus killed.

There might be 1001 idiotic beliefs in Hindu religion/culture but they are ready to reform or atleast don't impose them on you.

And let it be bluntly said,those Muslims who didn't wanted to live with Hindus went to Pakistan and those wanted to live stayed in India.India was divided on Religion basis.Muslims got their 100% reservation.

 

[asingh10]

When Muslims got 100% reservation(partition) most of the Muslim sects(Sunni,Shia,Ahmedi,etc) killed Hindus and Sikhs in their pure land.Now they are killing each other branding other Muslims sects as non-Muslims.

And those praising Sufis,why forget Moinuddin Chisti inviting barbarians like Ghori to wage a war against India to convert it to Islam.Ghori repeatedly Gangraped Samyukhta in front of Prithviraj Chauhan.During Chisti's time most the temples around his Dargah(which was built later) were razed because they belonged to Kafirs.

People like Dr.Kalam are very rare and Sufis doesn't come any where near to people like him.

And there are dolts who believe all religions are same in terms of cruelty.
So help me understand how many millions of other religions or in Hindu religion itself did Hindus killed.

There might be 1001 idiotic beliefs in Hindu religion/culture but they are ready to reform or atleast don't impose them on you.

And let it be bluntly said,those Muslims who didn't wanted to live with Hindus went to Pakistan and those wanted to live stayed in India.India was divided on Religion basis.Muslims got their 100% reservation.

Many naive Hindus seem to have a benign view of Sufism. Aurangzeb Alamgir and Tamerlane were sufis of Naqshbandi order. The Chechen jihad is also rooted in Naqshbandi order. I can cite several other examples. After a point idealism loses way and ingrained self preservative instinct takes over. This Gandhi type idealism never worked, never will.

http://www.kamakotimandali.com/blog/index.php?p=1417&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
http://indiafacts.co.in/sinister-side-sufism/#.VD-x1vldX7N

 

[asingh10]

Here's some Islamic wisdom from sufi Ahmad Sirhindi of Naqshbandi order from the 16th/17th cent, talking about execution of 6th Sikh Guru by Jahangir.

On why cows should be slaughtered in India, its a sign of Islamic domination.

On the real purpose of levying jizya and cow slaughter upon Hindus

 

[OneGrimPilgrim]

Have not gone through all the posts, but here's my 2 paisa worth. It is not Shias or Sunnis or Barelvis that is the problem - unless and until Islam undergoes the kind of Enlightenment that Christianity underwent it will keep giving rise to violent fundamentalists. The Kuran exhorts the follower to kill infidels if not submitting to Islam among many other deeply misogynistic and cruel instructions/punishments - this is what is followed by the violent followers, whether Sunni or Shia. The worst thing is the Kuran is taken to be the Final word of God and immutable by its followers so reform is difficult or even impossible.

It is a myth that Sufis were peace loving and tolerant - it is just that they were more into un-Islamic pursuits like music. Afaik one of the Sufi saints wrote to Nadir Shah to come and invade India to convert the infidels.

As for Muslims themselves they are just like any other group of people with equal number of carckpots, geniuses and the average Joe. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.

the invaders here used to embark on their 'expenditions' after taking the blessings of such sufi 'holy men'. for instance, afzal khan. however, in the case of this particular marauder, its said that he was warned by his pet holy man to cease now and not to proceed ahead esp. with the present one. he ignored, and we know the rest. funny (or rather not) thing is, he had a tomb (where he was buried) and is looked after by some muslims. another area where the country's muslims need a reform in outlook (in choosing their heroes).

 

[asingh10]

Sufi Mubarak Ghaznavi of Suhrawardi silsila on disgracing, dishonoring & exterminating Hindus

Sufi Nizamuddin Auliya, Amir Khusrau's teacher on kaffirs.

Shaikh Abdul Quddus Gangoh of Chishtia Silsila said to be the most tolerant of all Sufi groups to Babur on non Muslims.

Sufi AlGhazali on armed Jihad

 

[asingh10]

Sufi shah Waliullah who invited Ahmad Shah Abdali to save Muslims from the increasing power of Hindus.

Sufi Amir Khusro praise for Malik Kafur's (general of Alauddin Khilji) jihads

 

[asingh10]

Ghazi Saiyyad Salar Masud, who is worshipped by naive, ignorant Hindus as a saint at Bahraich. He was the nephew of murderer Ghaznavi and an invader himself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazi_Saiyyad_Salar_Masud

This guy was defeated by Raja Suheldev at Battle of Bahraich,1033 when confederacy of Pasi kings annihilated 100,000 strong ghaznavid army led by salar masud

http://www.indusresearch.org/raja-suheldev/

 

[Mad Indian]

And the leftist filth which white washed this from our history books does not want it changed and moan about why their whoredom should not be challenged when bjp wants to correct the bull shit in the schools


Self respect lacking whores

 

[asingh10]

And the leftist filth which white washed this from our history books does not want it changed and moan about why their whoredom should not be challenged when bjp wants to correct the bull shit in the schools


Self respect lacking whores

Well, leftist historians will tell you even Aurangzeb was a great guy. The fact that he murdered the 9th Sikh guru and the children of 10th guru is enough for Sikhs. Hindus wanna look at grey shades though.