Understanding China

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Ray

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Brainwashed is a tricky word.

Brains and washed!
 

Ray

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Hukou system

A Hukou refers to the system of 'class system' residency permits which dates back to ancient China, where household registration is required by law in People's Republic of China (China) and Republic of China (Taiwan).

A household registration record officially identifies a person as a resident of an area and includes identifying information such as name, parents, spouse, and date of birth.

A hukou can also refer to a family register in many contexts since the household registration record (simplified Chinese: 户籍誊本; traditional Chinese: 戶籍謄本; pinyin: hùjí téngběn) is issued per family, and usually includes the births, deaths, marriages, divorces, and moves, of all members in the family. A similar household registration system exists within the public administration structures of Japan (koseki), Vietnam (Hộ khẩu), and North Korea (Hoju). In South Korea the Hoju system was abolished on 1 January 2008.

The formal name for the system is "huji." Within the huji system, a "hukou" is the registered residency status of a particular individual in this system. "Hukou" is more commonly used in everyday conversation. "Hukou" has been adopted by English-language audiences to refer to both the huji system and an individual's hukou.

Family registers were in existence in China as early as the Xia Dynasty (c. 2100 BCE - 1600 BCE). In the centuries which followed, the family register developed into an organization of families and clans for purposes of taxation, conscription and social control.

According to the Examination of Hukou in Wenxian Tongkao published in 1317, there was a minister for population management during the Zhou Dynasty named Simin (Chinese: 司民), who was responsible for recording births, deaths, emigrations and immigrations. The Rites of Zhou notes that three copies of documents were kept in different places. The administrative divisions in Zhou Dynasty were a function of the distance to the state capital. The top division nearest the capital was named Dubi (Chinese: 都鄙), top division in more distant areas were named Xiang (Chinese: 鄉) and Sui (Chinese: 遂). Families are organized under the Baojia system.

Guan Zhong, Prime Minister of the Qi state 7th century BCE, imposed different taxation and conscription policies on different areas. In addition, Guan Zhong also banned immigration, emigration, and separation of families without permission. In the Book of Lord Shang, Shang Yang also described his policy restricting immigrations and emigrations.Xiao He, the first Chancellor of the Han Dynasty, added the chapter of Hu (Chinese: 户律) as one of the nine basic laws of Han (Chinese: 九章律), and established the Hukou system as the basis of tax revenue and conscription.

Communist Regime

The Communist Party instigated a command economy when it came to power in 1949. In 1958, the Chinese government officially promulgated the family register system to control the movement of people between urban and rural areas. Individuals were broadly categorised as a "rural" or "urban" worker.[4] A worker seeking to move from the country to urban areas to take up non-agricultural work would have to apply through the relevant bureaucracies. The number of workers allowed to make such moves was tightly controlled. Migrant workers would require six passes to work in provinces other than their own. People who worked outside their authorized domain or geographical area would not qualify for grain rations, employer-provided housing, or health care. There were controls over education, employment, marriage and so on.

With its large rural population of poor farm workers, hukou limited mass migration from the land to the cities to ensure some structural stability. The hukou system was an instrument of the command economy. By regulating labour, it ensured an adequate supply of low cost workers to the plethora of state owned businesses . Like the internal passports of the Soviet Union, the hukou system allowed the state to provide preferential treatment to industrial workers and intelligentsia who would be more likely to protest and even revolt during periods of unrest.

For some time, the Chinese Ministry of Public Security continued to justify the hukou system on public order grounds, and also provided demographic data for government central planning.

The Hukou system has been justified by some scholars as increasing the stability of China by better monitoring of "targeted persons", people who are politically dubious by the Party's standards. This is still a significant function as of 2006.

From around 1953 to 1976, Police would periodically round up those who were without valid residence permit, place them in detention centres and expel them from cities.[10]

Administration regulations issued in 1982 known as "custody and repatriation" authorized police to detain people, and "repatriate" them to their permanent residency location.


Although an individual is technically required to live in the area designated on his/her permit, in practice the system has largely broken down. After the Chinese economic reforms, it became possible for some to unofficially migrate and get a job without a valid permit. Economic reforms also created pressures to encourage migration from the interior to the coast. It also provided incentives for officials not to enforce regulations on migration.

Technology has made it easier to enforce the Hukou system as now the police force has a national database of official Hukou registrations. This was made possible by computerisation in the 1990s, as well as greater co-operation between the different regional police authorities.

During the Great Leap Forward's famine

During the mass famine of the Great Leap Forward from 1958 to 1962, having an urban versus a rural hukou could mean the difference between life and death. During this period, nearly all of the approximately 600 million rural hukou residents were collectivized into village communal farms, where their agricultural output - after state taxes - would be their only source of food. With institutionalized exaggeration of output figures by local Communist leaders and massive declines in production, state taxes during those years confiscated nearly all food in many rural communes, leading to mass starvation and the deaths of more than 30 million Chinese.

The 100 million urban hukou residents, however, were fed by fixed food rations established by the central government, which declined to an average of 1500 calories per day at times but still allowed survival for almost all during the famine. An estimated 95% or higher of all deaths occurred among rural hukou holders. With the suppression of news internally, many city residents were not aware that mass deaths were occurring in the countryside at all, which was essential to preventing organized opposition to Mao's scheme

Many of the starving peasants tried to flee to the cities to beg for food, but tight security at entry points and through regular inspections of resident documents on the streets led to the deportation and subsequent death of most. In fact, it was only when rural family members of higher military officers, who were often isolated from the countryside in cities or bases, began dying from starvation that higher Communist officials began seriously worrying about the stability of the state, and eventually forced Mao to end the program. This was the most extreme demonstration of how much impact a different hukou could have in China, but significant interference in all aspects of life only began declining in the 1980s and 1990s.

Effect on rural workers

From around 1953 to 1976, the restriction of a citizen's rights by his domicile caused rural citizens to be separated into an underclass. Urban citizens enjoyed a range of social, economic and cultural benefits that China's rural citizens did not receive. The ruling party did however make some concessions to rural workers to make life in rural areas "survivable... if not easy or pleasant".

From 1978 to 2001, while China changed from state socialism to market capitalism, export-processing zones were created in city suburbs and migrants, most of them female, worked there under conditions far below the contemporary standard of western countries.here were restrictions upon the mobility of migrant workers that forced them to live precarious lives in company dormitories or shanty towns where they were exposed to abusive treatment

The impact of the hukou system upon migrant laborers became onerous in the 1980s after hundreds of millions were ejected from state corporations and cooperatives. Since the 1980s, an estimated 200 million Chinese live outside their officially registered areas and under far less eligibility to education and government services, living therefore in a condition similar in many ways to that of illegal immigrants. The millions of peasants who have left their land remain trapped at the margins of the urban society. They are often blamed for rising crime and unemployment and under pressure from their citizens, the city governments have imposed discriminatory rules.For example, the children of "Nong Min Gong - 农民工" (farmer workers) are not allowed to enroll in the city schools, and even now must live with their grandparents or other relatives in order to attend school in their hometowns. They are commonly referred to as the home-staying children. There are around 130 million such home-staying children, living without their parents, as reported by Chinese researchers

Analogies to apartheid

The hukou system has been described as "China's apartheid". The gradual relaxation of some of the more repressive aspects of the hukou system since the mid-1990s has further raised the need for this control system. This system represents a class system which is in direct conflict with the Communism system of China and undermines the authority of the CPC (Communist Party of China). However, as the hukou remains partially hereditary, the "substance of the social apartheid remains intact."

Two areas differ from South Africa's apartheid system: Firstly, under a system called xia fang, or "sending down", individuals or groups of urban workers were sometimes re-classified as rural workers and banished to the countryside (at lower wages and benefits), often as a sentence for "bourgeois imperialist crimes" during the Cultural Revolution; by contrast, white workers in South Africa were never sent to work in Bantustans. Second, the ideology driving China's apartheid system was Maoism, not racism. More significantly it is possible to move up from a rural to an urban hukou by obtaining a college degree and gaining employment with a corporation or the government.

Some China-based scholars claim that though the Hukou system is discriminatory, it is not significantly different than the passport system keeping people from developing countries from resettling in the West; other than the people being China born citizens.

Reform

Reformation of hukou has been controversial in the PRC. It is a system widely regarded as unfair by citizens of the PRC, but there is also fear that its liberalization would lead to massive movement of people into the cities, causing strain to city government services, damage to the rural economies, and increase in social unrest and crime.

And yet, there has been recognition that hukou is an impediment to economic development. China's accession to the World Trade Organization has forced it to allow reformation to hukou in order to liberate the movement of labor for the benefit of the economy.

Further relaxation of the system has happened since the 1990s. A provision was made to allow the rural resident to buy "temporary urban residency permits" so he could work legally within the cities. The fee for these permits decreased over time and have become reasonably affordable. The inheritance of hukou was changed to allow succession through the lines of both the father and the mother, which corrected the disadvantage of hukou against rural women.

Hukou has been further weakened since 2001. In 2003, after protests over the death of Sun Zhigang alarmed the government, the laws of custody and repatriation were repealed. By 2004 over 100 million rural citizens were working in cities, according to the estimate of the Chinese Ministry of Agriculture.

Chan and Buckingham's (2008) article, "Is China Abolishing its Hukou System " argues that previous reforms have not fundamentally changed the hukou system, but have only decentralized the powers of hukou to local governments. The present hukou system remains active and continues to contribute to China's rural and urban disparity.

The system is currently only partially enforced, and it has been argued that the system will have to be further relaxed in order to increase availability of skilled workers to industries.

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Ray

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Is China Abolishing the Hukou System?

ABSTRACT

In recent years, China has instituted a variety of reforms to its hukou system, an institution with the power to restrict population
mobility and access to state-sponsored benefits for the majority of China's rural population. A wave of newspaper stories published in late 2005
understood the latest round of reform initiatives to suggest that the hukou is set to be abolished, and that rural residents will soon be ''granted urban
rights.'' This article clarifies the basic operations of the hukou system in light of recent reforms to examine the validity of these claims. We point out that
confusion over the functional operations of the hukou system and the nuances of the hukou lexicon have contributed to the overstated
interpretation of the initiative. The cumulative effect of these reforms is not abolition of the hukou, but devolution of responsibility for hukou
policies to local governments, which in many cases actually makes permanent migration of peasants to cities harder than before. At the
broader level, the hukou system, as a major divide between the rural and urban population, remains potent and intact.

The Chinese household registration system (hukou 户口or huji 户籍), having passed its 50th birthday this year, has had a significant impact on many aspects of life for people living in the People's Republic. Today it is quite common for students of China to consider the hukou, along with gender, age and income, as one of the main variables defining exogenous constraints on individual behaviour in social and economic studies.1 In comparison with the residence recording systems bearing the same name in Taiwan or Japan, the Chinese system serves far more important functions, broadly dividing citizens into two classes for a variety of purposes essential to the function of the state and seriously affecting the livelihood of hundreds of millions of ordinary people.Under this system, some 800 million rural residents are treated as inferior second-class citizens deprived of the right to settle in cities and to most of the basic welfare and government-provided services enjoyed by urban residents, ranging from small benefits like being able to buy a city bus pass, to much more important matters such as enrolling their children in public schools in cities where their parents work.2 The system also keeps peasants out of many urban jobs, except for those considered ''dirty,'' dangerous or very low-paying.3 China's longstanding policy of ''incomplete urbanization,'' as practised in the reform era, allows peasants to move to the city but denies them permanent residency rights and many
of the associated social benefits.4 As is well established, the hukou system is a cornerstone of China's infamous rural–urban ''apartheid,'' creating a system of ''cities with invisible walls.''5 It is a major source of injustice and inequality,6 perhaps the most crucial foundation of China's social and spatial stratification,7 and arguably contributes to the country's most prevalent human rights violations.

From at least the mid-1990s, journalists have been interpreting official statements on ''reforms'' of the hukou system as presaging an end to the system
as we know it. For example, as early as February 1994, Hong Kong's South China Morning Post published an article entitled ''Registration system set to be
abolished,'' reporting a Chinese proposal to drop the classification of agricultural and non-agricultural populations.8 Many other pieces carrying
similar messages were published in the Hong Kong and Western press between 1994 and early 2005.9 These messages seem to be consistent with hundreds of news items in the same period, mostly from China's officially sanctioned web sites, with celebratory, but often misleading, headlines proclaiming a new era of freedom for peasants or the collapse of city walls.10 The latest round of news stories on the forthcoming demise of the hukou appeared after Chinese domestic media carried a report by the Ministry of Public Security (MPS) on eliminating the classification division between agricultural and non-agricultural hukou at a meeting convened by a central committee on public order in late October 2005.11

Read more at:

http://faculty.washington.edu/kwchan/Chan-WSB-Hukou-Abolition-CQ2008.pdf
 

Ray

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Why China is changing its Hukou system to allow free movement

With a potential hard landing in sight for the Chinese economy, particularly if the eurozone implodes, the Chinese government has rather a lot on its mind right now. Amongst the huge tasks facing it – one thinks of the bad debt overhang in Chinese banks, or the almost out of control property bubble, not to mention factory riots when demand from advanced markets slows – one task that Western commentators tend to overlook is the need to fix China's odd system of linking people's rights and benefits to their place of abode.

Known as Hukou, the system was introduced in 1958 by the People's Congress to stop people creating a food problem by giving up their small holding farms and fleeing the countryside for the richer pickings in China's fast growing cities. Hukou has been relaxed a fair bit over the last decade, starting in the 1990s, but it still discriminates sharply between the rights available to rural people and the rights available to city dwellers.

Migrant workers who leave their rural homes to take work in the cities, do not necessarily get urban Hukou rights. This creates huge dissatisfaction among migrant workers, particularly when the city authorities refuse them a city hukou, which means they are only entitled to rural hukou rights.

According to a recent Goldman Sachs report on the Chinese Hukou system, some 167 million urban dwellers, or around one quarter of the total urban population of 622 million, hold rural hukou instead of urban hukou – meaning that a quarter of the urban population feel hard done by.

Holding a rural hukou can disqualify you for certain types of employment. It tends to shut you out of participating in retirement insurance (regarded as a city thing, otherwise you could grow your own food). And you'll struggle to get your kids into nearby city schools – after all, you're supposed to be in the countryside. Even worse, your children will not be able to participate in university education exams since they are not urban residents. And most cities won't let you qualify for public housing without a local city hukou.

From the standpoint of the Chinese economy, which is starting to run out of a ready supply of labour in key demographic brackets (20 – 40 age group), anything that chokes off the movement of people from the countryside to the city is counter productive. Food security is, for the moment, far less of an issue, since a thriving economy can pay for all the food imports it requires. So the priorities of the late 1950s, which were all about anchoring the small farmers to the countryside, are way less important than maintaining some kind of downward pressure on wages through a constant stream of new recruits eager to experience city living and city wages.

From this standpoint hukou is very much yesterday's policy, but like many grand bureaucratic schemes, it is proving difficult to unwind. Goldman Sachs point out that some cities are experimenting with the idea of dropping the requirement for hukou altogether. However, with China tightening public finances, there is a clear financial issue that city authorities have to solve. Dropping hukou will make a significant demand on the resources available to the city authorities, hence the foot dragging in the reform process.

There are several routes to improving the system. One is to improve the benefits and safety nets associated with rural hukou. Goldman Sachs quotes the head of the NDRC's Societal Development Institute, Yang Yiyong as saying that the urban/rural hukou regime probably accounts for about 65% of the wealth disparity between the rural and the urban populations. As such it is a clear stumbling block to China increasing domestic consumer demand – a fundamental requirement for more balanced global trade flows. It will be interesting to see if China can dismantle hukou, which is very much part of the Party "command and control" system, without dismantling a shoal of other, equally iniquitous restrictions on the rights of its citizens. This is still, after all, command and control capitalism as pioneered and practiced by a Communist state.

Why China is changing its Hukou system to allow free movement - QFINANCE
 

Ray

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China's economic growing pains
The world's most populous nation is finding that its economic prosperity comes with a price: Inequality, social division, and political unrest


What's wrong with China?

It's struggling to cope with the consequences of its own rapid economic growth. China's economy grew at a red-hot rate of 10 percent a year for the last decade, making the country as a whole much more affluent. But the growth has been very unevenly spread over the vast population of 1.3 billion, causing bitterness and discord. The economic boom has created a new and very visible wealthy class of top government officials and private-business owners, including more than 500,000 millionaires who travel abroad, drive Mercedes-Benzes and Rolls-Royces, and adorn their wrists with Rolexes. But on average the Chinese are only about as wealthy as Jamaicans or Albanians. As a result, China is now suffering from serious social, economic, and political problems that have left its population restless and its leadership worried.

Will the economic growth continue?

It's already slowing, dipping below 9 percent in one quarter last year. That partly reflects the Chinese economy's heavy reliance on exports, which have dropped off since recession-stung Europeans and Americans pulled back on purchases of consumer goods. China's rising wages, ironically, are also a factor: Some industries, particularly clothing and footwear, are moving factories from China to Indonesia and Bangladesh, where they can still pay workers pennies a day. But the biggest threats to China's economy are inflation and a housing bubble. The newly rich poured their earnings into real estate, driving prices way up. Many also invested in the private, underground lending industry, which thrives because official Chinese banks often refuse to make private loans. In at least one city, Wenzhou, a wave of defaults of these underground bank loans has set off a rash of suicides among people who can't pay their debts.

How widespread is the anger?

It reaches deep into Chinese society. The rural poor are complaining that wages and incomes are rising in cities, but not among those who live in the countryside. Some are beginning to rise up in protest against rampant corruption among local officials, who seize land from peasants and farmers and sell it at great profit to developers. In a case that generated international attention, townspeople in the southern fishing village of Wukan banded together in December and drove out the local Communist authorities; they have been allowed to elect a new government. Tens of millions of rural residents have simply abandoned the countryside to try to find better-paying jobs in the cities. In a single generation, the urban share of China's population has doubled, from 25 percent in 1990 to more than 50 percent today. That massive migration has put unimaginable stress on the cities.

Do the migrants fit in?

They're not really allowed to. The centuries-old system of hukou requires all Chinese citizens to register in their birth villages, and when they move, the new jurisdiction often refuses to grant them residency. At least 200 million people who have moved to the cities for work lack access to vital social services, including health care and schools, and many live in shantytowns on the cities' edges. A toddler who was run over last year and left to bleed in the street — an event captured on video and replayed endlessly on the Internet, to the horror of the Chinese public — was from one such disenfranchised family. Despite some recent reforms, the hukou system is still contributing to a marginalization of migrants that The Economist has called "China's apartheid system."

What about factory workers?

They, too, are getting restless. Strikes for higher wages and better working conditions are becoming more frequent, and the explosive popularity of Weibo, the Chinese version of Twitter, has allowed news of local unrest to spread around the country. Last November, employees at a shoe factory rioted over layoffs and salary cuts, and images of their bloody clashes with police went viral on the Internet. A report by the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences found that strikes have become more confrontational and more likely to inspire copycat actions.

How are authorities reacting?

With a combination of repression and reform. In an attempt to prevent local protests and uprisings from turning into a destabilizing contagion, Beijing authorities in December ordered that all Weibo users must use their real names. Individuals who complain too vigorously about corruption, wages, or industrial pollution are sometimes dragged off to jails or mental institutions. But in a conciliatory gesture, Premier Wen Jiabao recently called for better protection of farmers' land rights. And one vocal advocate of such reform, Guangdong provincial party leader Wang Yang, is expected to be appointed to the Politburo Standing Committee later this year, when all but two of its nine members will be replaced. The Communist Party is mindful of the need to carefully calibrate its response to growing public dissension. The last time such a large turnover in the Party's top leadership coincided with an economic downturn was 1988. A year later, simmering frustration with the government erupted into the protests in Tiananmen Square.

End of the one-child policy?

China's policy of allowing only one child per family, introduced in 1978, has become a demographic time bomb. In the next 30 years, as a wave of older people retire, China will go from having eight workers per retiree to just two, an enormous and unsustainable change for the economy. What's more, the policy has implicitly encouraged selective abortions of girls, since the Chinese still value a single son more than a daughter. The result is a glut of boys — there are 32 million more of them under 20 today than females. Such a large mass of men who can't marry and have poor job prospects, sociologists say, is a recipe for social upheaval. Many analysts believe that authorities will soon revoke the one-child policy; propaganda posters have already been spotted showing families with two children. But the change may come too late. China "is already past the tipping point," Deutsche Bank global strategist Sanjeev Sanyal says, "because of a combination of gender imbalance and a very skewed age structure."

China's economic growing pains - The Week
 

Ray

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China is a complex country and is not that simple and organised as is made out by the Chinese posters.

These ideas of China may appear odd, undemocratic, repressive and even cussed; but they have stood the test of time and done China well.

Unless the growing nation is regimented with draconian laws, it cannot be marshalled as one to reach national goals in the timeframe desired.

One has to be ruthless and cruel, but that is the answer for quick fixes!

China is proving to be a rip roaring activist in this game!
 
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Ray

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Communist China cares for its people.

See the Danwei system.

Danwei System

A work unit or danwei (simplified Chinese: 单位; traditional Chinese: 單位; pinyin: dān wèi) is the name given to a place of employment in the People's Republic of China. While the term danwei remains in use today it is more properly used to refer to a place of employment during the period when the Chinese economy was still more heavily socialist or when used in the context of one of state-owned enterprises.

Prior to Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms a work unit acted as the first step of a multi-tiered hierarchy linking each individual with the central Communist Party infrastructure. Work units were the principal method of implementing party policy. Also workers were bound to their work unit for life. Each danwei created their own housing, child care, schools, clinics, shops, services, post offices, etc.

The influence of a work unit on the life of an individual was substantial and permission had to be obtained from the work units before undertaking everyday events such as travel, marriage, or having children. Amongst other things, the work unit assigned individuals living quarters and provided them with food, which was eaten in centralized canteens. The danwei system was crucial to the implementation of the one child policy as the reproductive behavior of workers could be monitored through the danwei system. Workers not complying with policy could have their pay docked, incentives withheld or living conditions downgraded.

The increasing liberalization of China's economy led to state owned enterprises being put into competition with private enterprise and, increasingly, foreign Multinational corporations. The iron rice bowl, the ideal of a job for every worker, continued to prevent work units from dismissing workers while private enterprises were able to cherry pick the best workers. The decision by the central and provincial governments to offer tax and financial incentives to foreign investors in order to encourage them to invest in China led to further difficulties for the danwei system as the state run enterprises were increasingly unable to compete.

At the same time the role of the work unit has changed as China has moved from a socialist ideology to "Socialism with Chinese characteristics". By 2000 much of the work unit's power had been removed. In 2003, for example, it became possible to marry or divorce someone without needing authorization from ones' work unit.

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Godless-Kafir

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Don's worry, Tianshan, in this forum, almost every indian member "knows" more about china than any chinese.

If you don't agree with them, either you are "CCP propaganda" or you are "brainwahsed".
Roll out of here like an egg! :rofl:
 

no smoking

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You bet it.

We have access to the world and can have the advantage of all the views.

You are in the well and only know what CCP tells you what you should know.


Therefore, your scope is vastly limited!

Even the words should be known since we have many out here who are in business and trade with Mainland China and Hong Kong and Republic of China.
Didn't you realise that most of chineses you are talking here are living or were living outside china for a long period. It seems that we have more credit than you on the access to the world.

I, for example, have been living in Australia for 10 years. Unlike you who is geting second-hand information from those short-period travellor, we have long time experiences inside and outside China.


Ah, I forgot: in the next, you will call me "50 cents army".

How perfect argument from our indian friends. No wonder why people say: chinese work work, indian talk talk.
 

Ray

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huaxia rox

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haha, those videos will not help you recognize if we swear, since we will do it in a way which only other chinese can understand.

the second video is in cantonese, and does not give the chinese character. so it is only helpful if you can actually hear them speaking it.

on topic: i think only an outsider who is "politically neutral", can hope to really understand china.. and that will take a long time as well. on a defence site, this is nearly impossible, since everyone will look at it through a political lens.

no 1 can be 100% "politically neutral" so its ok and dont expect others to really understand u and vice versa.

i guess in this forum all indian members hold these couple of points:

1 tibet xinjiang taiwan etc etc dont/shouldnt belong to prc...hans have been destorying cultures there after invasions. all the arguments and evidence to support this point r rite....otherwise wrong.

2 kasimir sikkim panjab and 7 sister states etc etc do/should belong to india...hindus have been helping cultures there after democratic takeovers. all the arguments and evidence to support this point r rite....otherwise wrong.

but anyway try understanding a nation or people may be a good thing...especially while we can read english so we can access english sources about the us uk and even india etc they normally can only read chinese things written in english language or google translated.......so we can know how they may view us from the way they think or like.....to study these may be a good thing as well.
 

Ray

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Didn't you realise that most of chineses you are talking here are living or were living outside china for a long period. It seems that we have more credit than you on the access to the world.

I, for example, have been living in Australia for 10 years. Unlike you who is geting second-hand information from those short-period travellor, we have long time experiences inside and outside China.


Ah, I forgot: in the next, you will call me "50 cents army".

How perfect argument from our indian friends. No wonder why people say: chinese work work, indian talk talk.
My good man, what makes you feel I am a Chinese frog in the well that Mao said of Chinese.

Is it that you alone travel the world and I am not capable of doing the same?

師傅領進門,修行在個人
 
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Ray

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no 1 can be 100% "politically neutral" so its ok and dont expect others to really understand u and vice versa.

i guess in this forum all indian members hold these couple of points:

1 tibet xinjiang taiwan etc etc dont/shouldnt belong to prc...hans have been destorying cultures there after invasions. all the arguments and evidence to support this point r rite....otherwise wrong.

2 kasimir sikkim panjab and 7 sister states etc etc do/should belong to india...hindus have been helping cultures there after democratic takeovers. all the arguments and evidence to support this point r rite....otherwise wrong.

but anyway try understanding a nation or people may be a good thing...especially while we can read english so we can access english sources about the us uk and even india etc they normally can only read chinese things written in english language or google translated.......so we can know how they may view us from the way they think or like.....to study these may be a good thing as well.
What exactly are you implying.

Use English!

Transliteration does not convey the meaning!
 

ace009

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South Park? :rofl:
Movies - not TV shows - try these movies ...

1. Resident evil
2. Terminator II
3. Independence Day
4. Matrix

All I need to know about China, I learn from Bruce Lee movies ...

:D
 

ace009

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Didn't you realise that most of chineses you are talking here are living or were living outside china for a long period. It seems that we have more credit than you on the access to the world.

I, for example, have been living in Australia for 10 years. Unlike you who is geting second-hand information from those short-period travellor, we have long time experiences inside and outside China.


Ah, I forgot: in the next, you will call me "50 cents army".

How perfect argument from our indian friends. No wonder why people say: chinese work work, indian talk talk.
Hmmm - I live in the US, work with several Chinese colleagues - never heard that. AFAIK, Indians and Chinese both work hard here and get along very well.

OTOH, your description does explain the two political systems in our countries -
"chinese work work, indian talk talk." Which is why China has a communist dictatorship, where people are forced to "work work" like slaves for foreign corporations "for the benefit of the state" and in India there is a democracy where people "talk talk" as in a civil discourse and then elect their own governments.

I bet the average Chinese would love to "talk talk" - am not sure the average Indian would like to "work work" though.


:D
 

ice berg

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For the benefit of states? muhahahhaha. Someone still stuck in the 70s, I think. People work to earn money, then they buy things with it It is the same everywhere. Democracy amd communism got nothing to do with it.
 

Mad Indian

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For the benefit of states? muhahahhaha. Someone still stuck in the 70s, I think. People work to earn money, then they buy things with it It is the same everywhere. Democracy amd communism got nothing to do with it.
I can go and call my Prime minister an ass hole to the police or even the Prime minister himself, if i think he is doing something bad to my country, without getting killed, Can you????:lol::rofl::taunt1::taunt1:
 
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