U.S.S.Independence(LCS) being built in Perth

kuku

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Hahhahaha! This is more like what I am used to on forums. Snide remarks and negative comments to a post. Well done.
Why thank you, you were so sad about the lack of response i thought i would do my best.

here is some more:

USN wants stealth in the littorals, the ship does not seem to have the capability to become invisible.

In terms of war-fighting these are the "Lost Capability Ships" (all they can do is fire a little gun).
The ship can be a mine hunter, do ASW, and be a small mothership for a small amount of special forces and unmanned vehicles, the trouble is, it can not do all of these roles at the same time, and needs a shipyard for the modules.

By the time it reaches the place it has to reach, opposing force can plant more mines and more submarines can be deployed to that area.

I hope they loose the stealth, the multi modules concept, put a bigger crew in the ship, and make it real easy to buy.
 

kuku

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Cant imagine something like the LCS being made for the purpose of Anti Piracy/ Anti Terrorism operations. So much money spent for such operations doesnt make sense.
The justification is that the ship can be a mine hunter, a ASW corvette when not hunting pirates, terrorist or worse yet terrorizing pirates arrrrr......

www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/corporate/press-kit/Surface-Combat-Ship-Brochure.pdf

This is a better armed version of the LCS from LM.

It could be better for other nations and LM can market it to them, with the USN they just have too much similar fire power on much bigger ships to bother itself with smaller ships with similar weapon and sensor systems. The Israelis are working on a similar design from LM i think they will let go of the super fast 40+knots speed and try to cut back on the costs along with adding local weapons and the SM-3 capability (possible).

Has India invited a proposal from LM for the Project-17A? They might send this ship as one.
 

Sailor

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I think the US Navy knows what it is doing. There is a possibility that they just haven't or don't want to reveal it yet. In the meantime they are working with their ANZUS allies.
Us.
 

kuku

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I think the US Navy knows what it is doing. There is a possibility that they just haven't or don't want to reveal it yet. In the meantime they are working with their ANZUS allies.
Us.
Its the USN, they have the most experience in doing these things on our earth, of course they know, does not take away our right to scrutinize things to a level of madness.

Judging by the planned increase in RAN, i think you guys are going to be doing a lot more than just working with the USN in the coming decades.
 

Sailor

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We are a very small country of only 20 million people. When you see the population of India as being 1200 million or whatever it is now, you can see that we are very short of manpower. Many times I have read criticisms about our small contingents in war zones such as Iraq and Afghanistan. It is because of our manpower size. We do our best with what we have. Remember our military is 100% professional. There is no conscription or citizen's military force.

Aussies think that this isn't a problem as one Aussie is better than ten of anyone else. LOL.
 

kuku

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We are a very small country of only 20 million people. When you see the population of India as being 1200 million or whatever it is now, you can see that we are very short of manpower. Many times I have read criticisms about our small contingents in war zones such as Iraq and Afghanistan. It is because of our manpower size. We do our best with what we have. Remember our military is 100% professional. There is no conscription or citizen's military force.

Aussies think that this isn't a problem as one Aussie is better than ten of anyone else. LOL.
You have got a real big economy for that small a population.

Well Aus is a part of the US led group, so all she has to do is to play her part, i dont think the allied groups leadership does not understand that. When i look at Aus military forces, it is clear that they are designed to act in that allied group, not outside of it. For the regional equation i think the military you have is enough, and the planned build-up is more than enough.

The build up in Australian military forces might be to ease the pressure on US in the region as it cuts back on its military spending in the coming decades, and the stress that the ABCA allies force will face with China expanding its influence in the region.

As far as the LCS ships go, my opinion (which could be so wrong as to be out side our galaxy) is that Australia does not need them, does not need them one bit.

However the very low crew requirements could prove to be just what RAN is looking for, that might just break the backs of the poor souls who have to do all the ships tasks, but something RAN could utilise anyways.
 

Yusuf

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Sailor,
Our neighbor in the west too thinks the same. 1 for 10!

Juku,
I don't think the LCS fits the bill for 17A.
 

kuku

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Sailor,
Our neighbor in the west too thinks the same. 1 for 10!

Juku,
I don't think the LCS fits the bill for 17A.
I don't think it will fit INs requirements either, in fact i do not know what the IN wants, do you?
I was just asking if Indian navy sent a request for information or proposal to lockheed martin or any US ship building firm.

The surface combat/multi mission variant is very impressive though.
 

Yusuf

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Indias design is indegenous. It's going ahead on it's own. Besides Indian ship is going to be much heavier than other ships in it's class so the LCS will not fit in
 

kuku

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Indias design is indegenous. It's going ahead on it's own. Besides Indian ship is going to be much heavier than other ships in it's class so the LCS will not fit in
There are other nations that will find this design very interesting.

If the design is from the Navy, why was there talk of IN sending RFI's to firms?

How do you estimate the size of the ships in that class? Initially the ships that the observers quoted as IN being interested in were of a similar displacement.

Is the design already complete?
 

Yusuf

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The Project 17A is the follow on the Project 17 (Shivalik class) frigates for the Indian Navy. A total of seven ships will be built. One will be built abroad and the remaining six ships will be built at Mazagon Dock Limited or at GRSE. The request for information was issued in December 2007 to Russian, European and American shipyards. Russia has offered the Project 22550 in reply to the RFI.The Indian shipyards would require a partner to design the ship, since modular construction technique will be utilized in building these ships. DCNS and Fincantieri will bid for the design process.
Basically what India requires is the technique for modular construction. The Shivalik is one of the biggest ships around and India has done very well to stealth such a big ships. The Shivalik is about 6000 Tons, whereas something like the La Fayette is about 3500 Tons.
 

kuku

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The Project 17A is the follow on the Project 17 (Shivalik class) frigates for the Indian Navy.

A total of seven ships will be built. One will be built abroad and the remaining six ships will be built at Mazagon Dock Limited or at GRSE. The request for information was issued in December 2007 to Russian, European and American shipyards. Russia has offered the Project 22550 in reply to the RFI.

The Indian shipyards would require a partner to design the ship, since modular construction technique will be utilized in building these ships. DCNS and Fincantieri will bid for the design process.

Basically what India requires is the technique for modular construction. The Shivalik is one of the biggest ships around and India has done very well to stealth such a big ships. The Shivalik is about 6000 Tons, whereas something like the La Fayette is about 3500 Tons.
If this is a follow on project to the project 17, then why is Russia offering that project 22550, generally the Indian navy manages the designing for follow on projects itself, including whatever consulting is required.

Is the design indian and the RFI for a tender to 'break the ship into parts required for modular construction and then construct the first ship while transferring the construction technique to a Indian Shipyard'?
 

Yusuf

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Yeah i think thats what i gather. The main thing is the technique for modular construction. The Shivalik is an Indian design. 17A seems to be a bigger ship and the navy insists that all its ships from now on be made in modular way.
 

Pintu

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Here is an report by Ajai Shukla on Project 17A , appeared on Business Standard ,on March 28, 2009. You can get the information about Modular Construction of Project 17A , it supports Yusuf .

http://www.business-standard.com/in...french-shipyard-dcns-set-to-play-role/353187/

Project 17-A: French shipyard DCNS set to play role
Ajai Shukla / Mazagon Dock Limited/ Mumbai March 28, 2009, 0:54 IST


Major global warship-makers are carefully watching the Indian Navy’s Project 17-A, potentially India’s biggest-ever naval purchase, a Rs 17,000 crore plan to build seven stealth frigates. And French shipbuilder DCNS — through a clever “first-mover” strategy — is poised to play a major role in that project.


On February 27 this year, the DCNS board gave the thumbs up for a three-party design consultancy along with Kolkata shipyard, Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE), and Indian IT engineers Infotech Enterprises. The JV will design ships for global clients, including back office work for DCNS, one of the world’s biggest warship builders.

But the first design job that the JV is shooting for is Project 17-A. Despite the Indian success in designing and building quality warships, Project 17-A needs a design partner. This is because all seven frigates will be built using an advanced manufacturing process —- modular shipbuilding —- which is used by top shipyards in the US and Europe.

India has never done modular shipbuilding. This involves constructing a several-thousand-ton warship in 300-ton blocks, which are then brought together and assembled, like a Lego game, into a complete warship. Each 300-ton block is built separately, complete with all the piping, electrical wiring and fitments that would be a part of the ship. These must precisely connect with their counterpart in the neighbouring block, coming together in perfect alignment.

This is the expertise that DCNS is hoping to sell as the foreign design partner for Project 17-A. DCNS has positioned itself well for the bid. The DCNS-GRSE-Infotech JV will have the advantage of bidding as an Indian company. Besides the Scorpene programme with MDL, DCNS has worked with both shipyards on several projects. And, importantly, the modular construction infrastructure coming up in MDL and GRSE is very similar to that in DCNS’s shipyards in France.

Admiral Malhi points out, “We already have a relationship with DCNS; we are building the Scorpene together. They have the same infrastructure as we have, which means that the drawings they make can be easily translated into warships in our yard. But we will keep our options open by asking (Italian shipyard) Fincantieri to bid as well.”

With GRSE and MDL insisting that Project 17-A be built entirely in India (Business Standard had reported yesterday that the Indian Navy wanted the first two frigates to be built abroad by the design partner) they have joined forces, rather than competing for the order. For the first time ever, a project may be split between two shipyards. Admiral Mahli explains, “We have to ensure that the navy gets all these seven warships by 2021. That means GRSE and MDL might both work concurrently on Project 17 A; you might have four built in MDL and three in GRSE. There is enough work for both shipyards.

No Indian defence shipyard is equipped yet for modular construction; but so lucrative is the Project 17-A contract that both GRSE and Mazagon Dock Limited, Mumbai (MDL) are spending hundreds of crores on creating modular construction facilities by mid-2011, by when assembly of the Project 17-A frigates is due to start.

The facilities include a covered workshop large enough for constructing 300-ton modules inside; a sliding roof for lifting out the completed modules; a 300-ton Goliath crane, on rails that extend across two or three slipways, for conveying the completed module to whichever frigate it is meant for.

Admiral HS Malhi, Chairman of MDL, says progress is on schedule. “Italian company, Fagioli, in partnership with McNally Bharat Engineering (MBE), is building the 300-ton Goliath crane. With a span of 138 metres, it will be the longest in India, stretching across the two slipways and across the modular workshop.”
 

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