Turkey cancels $3.4 billion missile deal with China

J20!

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robots are CHEAPER & BETTER option ......................Robots can be controlled from earth , they can carry more sensors for exploration and experimenting in space .

yes manned space missions are NOT "useless" but we can do lots of unmanned missions in the cost of 1 Manned mission and gather much more knowledge .
"CHEAPER & BETTER"? Bullsh*t! "they can carry more sensors for exploration and experimenting in space"? BULLSH*T!

Rovers are small, solar-powered vehicles that have severe space, power, speed and maneuverability constraints that are used as contingency where manned exploration is a technical or budgetary non-starter.

How many multi-million dollar space-missions have been derailed because a rover broke an axle, or got stuck or it malfunctioned? Do you know how long it takes a robotic probe to survey even a small area on the moon or mars?

Better option? Please man. Stop being deliberately obtuse. If ISRO thinks manned space flight is so "inferior" to robotics, why the space-plane test? Why did India sign a memorandum of understanding with Russia in 2008 regarding manned flight research?

The reason ISRO doesn't have a functioning manned space programme at the moment is that it does not have the resources to develop the tech and infrastructure required to maintain one. Period. All your nonsense about "robotics being better" is hogwash.
 
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OnePunchMan

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I couldn't even read your whole post. Just "China copy soviet"; "India genius innovation".

Sure man. India is "better" than China. Pop a champagne bottle. You guys sound like small kindergartners at times
yes we are better than china and whatever our achievements are they are from small and frugal innovation and from self learning and self application china may operate at a large scale but so far their space programme has no scientific achievement in their names just hauling cargo.
"CHEAPER & BETTER"? Bullsh*t! "they can carry more sensors for exploration and experimenting in space"? BULLSH*T!

Rovers are small, solar-powered vehicles that have severe space, power, speed and maneuverability constraints that are used as contingency where manned exploration is a technical or budgetary non-starter.

How many multi-million dollar space-missions have been derailed because a rover broke an axle, or got stuck or it malfunctioned? Do you know how long it takes a robotic probe to survey even a small area on the moon or mars?

Better option? Please man. Stop being deliberately obtuse. If ISRO thinks manned space flight is so "inferior" to robotics, why the space-plane test? Why did India sign a memorandum of understanding with Russia in 2008 regarding manned flight research?

The reason ISRO doesn't have a functioning manned space programme at the moment is that it does not have the resources to develop the tech and infrastructure required to maintain one. Period. All your nonsense about "robotics being better" is hogwash.
you're still here peddling your bullshit tell me what science china has done in its low earth orbit space station all the information of the universe is known through the various unmanned robotic probes that we have sent to outer planet so far which china hasnt been able to do so china is still decades away from sending someone to the moon just staying in low earth orbit is nothing revolutionary india tested SCRAMJET space plane to deliver satellites into space at much cheaper cost and to make money not to show off like china on bought tech.


probes circle the planet and study and photograph it in detail in the money china uses to show off and send 2 people to LEO india can send probes to every planet in the solar system and study them and photograph them in high detail which has more scientific value than sending 2 clueless astronauts to LEO but whatever china has more infrastructure blah blah blah.
 

J20!

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yes we are better than china and whatever our achievements are they are from small and frugal innovation and from self learning and self application china may operate at a large scale but so far their space programme has no scientific achievement in their names just hauling cargo.

you're still here peddling your bullshit tell me what science china has done in its low earth orbit space station all the information of the universe is known through the various unmanned robotic probes that we have sent to outer planet so far which china hasnt been able to do so china is still decades away from sending someone to the moon just staying in low earth orbit is nothing revolutionary india tested SCRAMJET space plane to deliver satellites into space at much cheaper cost and to make money not to show off like china on bought tech.


probes circle the planet and study and photograph it in detail in the money china uses to show off and send 2 people to LEO india can send probes to every planet in the solar system and study them and photograph them in high detail which has more scientific value than sending 2 clueless astronauts to LEO but whatever china has more infrastructure blah blah blah.
Go back to high school and waste someone else's time kid. Seems like you need more education...
 

OnePunchMan

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Go back to high school and waste someone else's time kid. Seems like you need more education...
real mature you won't reply to me because i debunked and exposed all your bullshit that you peddle here china has ACHIEVED ZILCH NADA NYET NOTHING IN SPACE SO FAR. we dont want to be part of any vanity useless project like chinese space lab if we wanted to be part of it there is ISS and russia also proposed to build a space station along with india and china WE flatly refused

argument here QUALITY VS QUANTITY


china launches lots of domestic satellite because idk they dont know how to make reliable satellite or what we launched a mini space shuttle with really advanced technology and propulsion we dont d o anything for show off or bravado and it must provide some benefit

i repeat again china has ACHIEVED ZILCH NADA NYET NOTHING IN SPACE SO FAR.china has ACHIEVED ZILCH NADA NYET NOTHING IN SPACE SO FAR.

no scientific breakthrough no new technology invented just copying and hauling cargo from bought rockets tell one discovery just one space related discovery coming out of chinese programme you cant provide me on thing except talking bullshit and infrastructure what good is so many launches and launch pad if you dont have any brains and cant deliver any scientific discovery or decent scientific paper.??????
 

J20!

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real mature you won't reply to me because i debunked and exposed all your bullshit that you peddle here china has ACHIEVED ZILCH NADA NYET NOTHING IN SPACE SO FAR. we dont want to be part of any vanity useless project like chinese space lab if we wanted to be part of it there is ISS and russia also proposed to build a space station along with india and china WE flatly refused

argument here QUALITY VS QUANTITY


china launches lots of domestic satellite because idk they dont know how to make reliable satellite or what we launched a mini space shuttle with really advanced technology and propulsion we dont d o anything for show off or bravado and it must provide some benefit

i repeat again china has ACHIEVED ZILCH NADA NYET NOTHING IN SPACE SO FAR.china has ACHIEVED ZILCH NADA NYET NOTHING IN SPACE SO FAR.

no scientific breakthrough no new technology invented just copying and hauling cargo from bought rockets tell one discovery just one space related discovery coming out of chinese programme you cant provide me on thing except talking bullshit and infrastructure what good is so many launches and launch pad if you dont have any brains and cant deliver any scientific discovery or decent scientific paper.??????
Again, more loud mouth nonsense, but I'll indulge you:

tell me what science china has done in its low earth orbit space station
http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/china-says-tests-of-propellentless.html

China says tests of Propellentless EMDrive on Tiangong 2 space station were successful

December 20, 2016

Dr. Chen Yue, Director of Commercial Satellite Technology for the China Academy of Space Technology (CAST)announced on December 10, 2016 that not only has China successfully tested EmDrives technology in its laboratories, but that a proof-of-concept is currently undergoing zero-g testing in orbit (according to the International Business Times, this test is taking place on the Tiangong 2 space station).

Scientists with the China Academy of Space Technology claim NASA’s results ‘re-confirm’ what they’d already achieved, and have plans to implement it in satellites ‘as quickly as possible.’


‘The establishment of an experimental verification platform to complete the milli-level micro thrust measurement test, as well as several years of repeated experiments and investigations into corresponding interference factors, confirm that in this type of thruster, thrust exists.’

Cast is a subsidiary of the Chinese Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) and the manufacturer of Dong Fang Hong satellites.

According to Li Feng, chief designer of Cast’s communication satellite division, the team has built a prototype that so far generates just a few millinewtons of thrust, IBTimes UK reports.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-impossible-engine-says-s-orbiting-Earth.html

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/emdrive-ch...al-tech-onto-satellites-soon-possible-1596328

But I'm sure the "SUPER-INNOVATIVE" Indians have been testing something x10 better on their SUPER INNOVATIVE (whilst frugal) ROBOTIC space station on the moon with robotic scientists.

Since you just seem so clueless on anything to do with space other that chest thumping "India stronk" nonsense(with 0 relevant sources), I'll post more links to CASC activities in the relevant thread.
 

OnePunchMan

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Again, more loud mouth nonsense, but I'll indulge you:



http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/china-says-tests-of-propellentless.html

China says tests of Propellentless EMDrive on Tiangong 2 space station were successful






http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-impossible-engine-says-s-orbiting-Earth.html

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/emdrive-ch...al-tech-onto-satellites-soon-possible-1596328

But I'm sure the "SUPER-INNOVATIVE" Indians have been testing something x10 better on their SUPER INNOVATIVE (whilst frugal) ROBOTIC space station on the moon with robotic scientists.

Since you just seem so clueless on anything to do with space other that chest thumping "India stronk" nonsense(with 0 relevant sources), I'll post more links to CASC activities in the relevant thread.
YOU STILL HAVEN'T POSTED ANY LINK SO FAR ITS NOT ME ITS YOU WHO NEED TO BACK UP HOLLOW CHINESE PROGRAMME BASED ON STOLEN AND BOUGHT TECH NOT ME GET IT???


the electric propulsion you are talking about has been in only testing or proof of concept phase and nothing but HOT AIR FROM CHINA they CLAIMED it but nothing concrete so far give me some data instead of postinf tabloid articles show me a detailed document of the science that went it to and how it is different and what kind of thrust it generates beside we also field tested electric propulsion on our SATS long time ago


http://isro.org/gslv-d3/pdf/GSLV-D3_GSAT-4 Brochure.pdf


Presently LPSC, ISRO is actively engaged in the development of 75mN SPT to be used in its future high power communication satellites.


75 mN SPT
Thrust

Nominal mode : 75 mN ± 1 mN
Throttling mode : 50 ------ 100 mN
Mass of thruster : 8 kg ( Maximum)
Maximum thermal dissipation from thruster. : 260 Watt

250 mN SPT
Thrust

Nominal mode : 250 mN ± 15 mN
Throttling mode : 200 ------ 300 mN
Mass of thruster : 15 kg (Maximum)
Maximum thermal dissipation from thruster. : 450 watt

Source: http://www.isro.org/Tender/Lpsc-b/TENDER%20NOTICE%20NO-8-RFP.pdf

For comparison: DAWN's ION propulsion from wiki
1) The Dawn spacecraft is propelled by three xenon ion thrusters

2) They have a specific impulse of 3,100 s and produce a thrust of 90 mN.

3) The whole spacecraft, including the ion propulsion thrusters, is powered by a 10 kW (at 1 AU) triple-junction gallium arsenide photovoltaic solar array

4) Dawn is allocated 275 kg (606 lb) of xenon, with another 110 kg (243 lb) to reach Ceres, out of a total capacity of 425 kg (MOM is carrying 850 kg liquid propellant) of on-board propellant. With the propellant it carries, Dawn can perform a velocity change of more than 10 km/s over the course of its mission, far more than any previous spacecraft achieved with onboard propellant after separation from its launch rocket.

5) Dawn is NASA’s first purely exploratory mission to use ion propulsion engines.


ISRO is also funding development of yet another class of electric thruster called Magnetoplasmadynamic Electric Propulsion Thruster

Magnetoplasmadynamic Electric Propulsion Thruster: Design, Fabrication and Application – ISRO Sponsored Project, IEPC 2013


this was way back in 2013 right now we have improved engine designs ready



and believe me when i say indian shuttle will revolutionize space propulsion and reduce costs to drastic level and generate huge profits from space launch ISRO GENERATED 100 MILLION FROM PROFITS LAUNCHING SATS ???
HOW MUCH DID THE SUPREME JUNK HAULER CHINA ACHIEVE?


the hall effect thrusters has long been used by ISRO and russia has been using for long too again nothing but hot air coming from you.
 

HariPrasad-1

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AGAIN all commendable, but all those things combined don't mean India has surpassed China in space. You are ignoring the fact that India's space launches represent only 25% of Chinese launches and fraction of the launch weight,
And we are going to have a quantum jump next month with GSLV MK III and addition of payload further for all our requirements with arrival of semicryogenic engine next year. You have your launch vehicle but they are as unreliable as other chinese goods. Just your rocket carrying your communication satellite fell down. Nobody trust your launch services. Everybody is rushing to India for their launch. Currently we have 2.2 to capacity which will rise double in next month and further in next one to 2 years. We will launch all our and other's satellite and you will continue to be an unreliable space power to whom nobody trust their valuable satellite to be launched.
 

HariPrasad-1

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You're IGNORING that India does not have a manned space programme, let alone space labs and an ongoing space station project. Yes India tested a miniature re-usable space plane. Congrats. But how does that make ISRO a bigger or better organisation?
Man space program was never and is never our priority. Your scientist Mr Zhou said that chinese man mission was a wrong priority and china left behind in satellite imaginary.
Is a hyper-sonic wind tunnel that was began operating in 2014. The biggest and most capable in the world, capable of testing up to Mach 9. Where's ISRO's equivalent?
We have tested Hypersonic vehicle and we are with US, Australia and perhaps Russia? What about you?
 

HariPrasad-1

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But hey, you are the guy who was claiming that India will have a 120+ petaflop supercomputer next year just because China debuted the fastest supercomputer; so I guess you have a "mine-is-bigger" complex anyway.
oh definitely. We are working on that at C dac. Funding came very late so it may take some more time but we are working on flexible bus technology for that speed. It will just consume 1/10th of energy required by other countries.
 

amoy

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Air Defense: Iraq Chooses High End Chinese

December 25, 2016: Iraq has apparently agreed to spend $2.5 billion to buy a brigade of Chinese FD-2000 air defense system. China will provide credit so Iraq can delay payments for a while and then pay for the system over a period of years. Iraq has bought advanced weapons from China before. In 2015 Iraq was able to purchase Chinese CH-4 UAVs. This is a system very similar to the American Predator. FD-2000 is the export version of the HQ-9, an anti-aircraft system that successfully shot down a ballistic missile in 2010 and is gaining a reputation of being an inexpensive substitute for the American Patriot or Russian S-300. This anti-missile capability is important for potential export customers and China let everyone know about it. The HQ-9 is roughly equivalent to the U.S. Patriot.

Currently most Chinese long range antiaircraft systems are HQ-9s while about a quarter are Russian S-300s. In 2003 China began delivering the HQ-9 to its army and navy (on ships). In the beginning the HQ-9 was a much less capable system. Over a decade of development and upgrades was believed to have benefitted from data stolen from similar American and Russian systems. The HQ-9 radar apparently derived a lot of technology from that used in the Russian S-300 system. The HQ-9 missile itself is similar to the U.S. "Patriot." An HQ-9 missile has a max range of about 100 kilometers, weighs 1.3 tons, and has a passive (no broadcasting) seeker in the missile. The Patriot missile weighs a ton (for the 70 kilometer range version) and a third of a ton for the 20 kilometer range anti-missile only version. The S-300 missiles weigh 1.8 tons and have a range of 200 kilometers. The FD-2000 is believed to have removed the more obvious items stolen from American and Russian systems. This reduces capability a bit but makes the FD-2000 more resistant to lawsuits over stolen technology.

HQ-9 units are mobile. The Type 120 radar is carried and operated from a heavy truck. This radar can be put into service in less than 15 minutes and shut down and be on the road again in 10 minutes. The Type 120 has a max detection range of 300 kilometers. China will sell the HQ-9 and Type 120 radar to export customers separately, and in 2013 rebels captured a Type 120 in Syria (which does not have HQ-9).

Most of the HQ-9 systems used by the Chinese army are mobile. Army HQ-9 brigades have a brigade headquarters (with a command vehicle and four trucks for communications and maintenance), six battalions (each with a missile control vehicle, a targeting radar vehicle, a search radar vehicle, and 8 missile-launch-vehicles, each carrying 4 missiles in containers).

Neither the S-300 nor HQ-9 has been tested in combat. This is important because Russian designed air defense systems tend to perform poorly in combat. Even the Russian SA-6 missile systems that Egypt used in 1973, and were initially a surprise to the Israelis, were soon countered and did not stop the Israelis from getting through. While the best sales technique is to push the products' track record, you have to do just the opposite with Russian and Chinese anti-aircraft systems. Thus, the Russians, and now the Chinese with their FD-2000, emphasize low price, impressive specifications, test results, and potential. The Chinese are also very tolerant of selling for inflated prices that allow the receiving country to distribute generous bribes to the senior officials involved.

HQ-9
 

amoy

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Chinese QW-2 MANPADS missile in service with Turkmenistan army
January 2018 Global Defense Security army news industry
POSTED ON FRIDAY, 12 JANUARY 2018 12:21

According a news of January 12, 2018, published by the online military magazine Azeri Defence, Turkmenistan has purchased QW-2 (Syanvey-2) MANPADS Man Portable Air Defense Systems. It is a third generation man-portable shoulder-launched surface-to-air missile (SAM) developed in China by CASIC (China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation) for the People's Liberation Army (PLA) and export customers.


A Chinese-made QW-2 MANPADS Man Portable Air Defense System operated by a Turkmen soldier (Picture source Azeri Defence)

The QW-2 MANPADS was presented during a visit of the Turkmen President Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedov to the military border unit of Turkmenistan.

According to the SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute) arms trade database, Turkmenistan has already purchase other air defense combat equipment from China including the FM-90 a mobile Short-range air defense missile system, HQ-9 SAM medium to long-range surface-to-air defense missile systems, and KS-1A medium-range mobile air defense missile systems.

A Man-Portable Air Defense Systems (MANPADS) is surface-to-air missile that can be fired by an individual or a small team of people against aircraft. These weapon systems often are described as shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles.

The QW-2 was first showcased to the public in 1998 at the Paris Air Show and entered service with the PLA by the end of the 1990s or early 2000s. According to military experts, the design of the QW-2 seems similar to Russian-made 9K310/SA-16 Gimlet MANPADS.

The QW-2 uses a fire and forget missile featuring a cooled two color infrared seeker and a single-stage solid rocket and can be operated by crew of two soldiers. The QW-2 missile can engage aerial targets at ranges from 500 meters to 6 kilometers flying at altitudes between 10 meters and 3,500 meters. The QW-2 can also be mounted on combat vehicle including a target acquisition radar and an electro-optical fire control system fitted on the carrier vehicle.


Chinese-made QW-2 MANPADS Man Portable Air Defense System at Air Show China in November 2012.
 

sthf

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I had almost forgot about this thread. I remember the Chinese said they lost because they were not NATO compatible yet Russian S-400 won and guess what... it is not NATO compatible so what is the new Chinese excuse?
Don't hold your breath. Chini fanboys were also boasting how their cheap Flanker copies were just as good if not better than the originals, then their beloved Uncle Xi bitchslapped them with a Su-35 order.

They are still scrambling for a reasonable excuse.
 

Armand2REP

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Don't hold your breath. Chini fanboys were also boasting how their cheap Flanker copies were just as good if not better than the originals, then their beloved Uncle Xi bitchslapped them with a Su-35 order.

They are still scrambling for a reasonable excuse.
I remember their MiG-21 clones sold like hotcakes but not one export for their Flankers.
 

sthf

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I remember their MiG-21 clones sold like hotcakes but not one export for their Flankers.
Vast majority of Mig-21 clones were sold to countries who couldn't get MIGs themselves. Porkistan is the largest user of that kind. Same goes for their FC-1. Only countries who are buying are the ones that cant get or afford any other contemporary fighter.

There is a reason why Pork Chops were crying like a little bitch when Uncle Sam wouldn't sell them F-16s at a discounted price and poor sods were too broke to buy even 8 units at full price. Musharraf's wet dream of creating a fleet of F-16s & FC-20s remained a wet dream and PAF is stuck with JF-17.
 

J20!

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Don't hold your breath. Chini fanboys were also boasting how their cheap Flanker copies were just as good if not better than the originals, then their beloved Uncle Xi bitchslapped them with a Su-35 order.

They are still scrambling for a reasonable excuse.

I had almost forgot about this thread. I remember the Chinese said they lost because they were not NATO compatible yet Russian S-400 won and guess what... it is not NATO compatible so what is the new Chinese excuse?
Straw-man arguments as always. What are talking about?

Incompatible to NATO systems as it is, the FD2000/HQ9 WON that tender over the S300, EuroSam's ASTER 30 and Ratheon's Patriot after evaluations by the Turkish armed forces.The tender was cancelled. Why would CPMIEC need to make excuses when it WON the tender?

Call me when any Indian Long Range Air defense system wins any tenders from a NATO member. Indian fanboys are always so bitter about any +ves in China.
 

Armand2REP

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Straw-man arguments as always. What are talking about?

Incompatible to NATO systems as it is, the FD2000/HQ9 WON that tender over the S300, EuroSam's ASTER 30 and Ratheon's Patriot after evaluations by the Turkish armed forces.The tender was cancelled. Why would CPMIEC need to make excuses when it WON the tender?
You won a tender and then lost it because you made:bs: claims you couldn't

deliver. That is not something to be proud of.
 

J20!

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You won a tender and then lost it because you made:bs: claims you couldn't

deliver. That is not something to be proud of.
Talk about pushing an imaginary narrative...

All four contenders where EVALUATED. If CPMIEC couldn't deliver, they wouldn't have won the tender Mr. Expert. CPMIEC didn't lose the tender, the whole tender was CANCELLED... EuroSam, Raytheon and NPO Almaz lost that tender.

But I don't expect someone actively trolling anything Chinese on this forum to use logic where China is concerned.
 

Armand2REP

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Talk about pushing an imaginary narrative...

All four contenders where EVALUATED. If CPMIEC couldn't deliver, they wouldn't have won the tender Mr. Expert. CPMIEC didn't lose the tender, the whole tender was CANCELLED... EuroSam, Raytheon and NPO Almaz lost that tender.

But I don't expect someone actively trolling anything Chinese on this forum to use logic where China is concerned.
CPMEIC won the tender based on false claims of what it could deliver. The award was cancelled when it was shown they couldn't meet their claims.

The final winners are S-400 and a development contract with Eurosam.
 

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