Trudeau accuses Indian government of involvement in killing of Canadian terrorist

AnantS

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GoI's domestic and foreign policy response depends on the lobby, lobby determines what they want to negotiate for.

  • if it is ISI lobby, it could mean attempts to paint India as bad actor same as Pakjab, establish false equivalence.
  • if it is empty space lobby, it could mean they are scared, had to involve big daddy to save their ass since trudeau failed.
  • if it is immigration/drugs gangs lobby, it could mean they are feeling the pinch somewhere.
  • if it is CIA, it could be something related to access to headley and rana.
  • if it is FBI, it could be a fishing exercise to find out how much info RAW has from within U.S.
  • if it is justice department, it could be related to soros, since he is spending money on DA elections recently.
  • if it is white house, it could mean 2024 elections, china, COP28, could be anything.
  • if it is a straight forward, and things are as they seem, then we are unnecessarily getting worried.
by keeping it as broad based as US govt, anything and everything will look like a conspiracy, this case is not such a big trump card for U.S that it can be used for something like selling civilian nuclear power reactors.

and most importantly, for the level of tolerance to threat levels that Indian state has, panun is a nobody, just nuisance value nothing else.
Its known Panun is nuisance and nothing would be gained by India on assasinating him. Albiet what I feel US tried to turn tables on India because India was finger pointing at US using Pannu.

CIA and USGOV - I dont distinguish. Had their been any difference you would have got some murmurs of dissonance as during Trump and US state dept. So you can brush aside that both are on different page.

See Soros, US state dept, Financial Institutions Media are tools of current US Govt to kowtow India and teach Modi a lesson for too much indulgence of Trump and generally being against any party with Nationalist sentiments who dont kowtow to their diktats. Our position on Russo Ukraine and sabotaging US led efforts to shame russia at G20, has just frustrated them to bare there fangs since clinton and nixon era.

I said earlier too US would love to get into Bed with China moment Xi shows its slight move. India is just one of the many hedges they have against China as an insurance to save its skin. Trump truly envisaged an anti China bulwark in India. But one of the first tasks of Biden was to downgrade India in its calculations, restrengthen anglo saxon alliance(Aukus). They want managable China, compliant Russia and pliable India. And thats how they are playing the moves. Pat one, smack others, then switch to smack first and pat rest. And like dogs some bark and try to bite rest are left wagging their tale fearing worst and hoping best.
 

hurrians

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police say there is no such person of interest.

Most probably Guptaji is like that person who claimed asylum in kanada or it's neighbour saying he is being persecuted in Bharat. Actually he fled sexual assault charges from here. Was able to even hoodwink the UN and signed MOU as an NGO.
 

Azaad

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Its known Panun is nuisance and nothing would be gained by India on assasinating him. Albiet what I feel US tried to turn tables on India because India was finger pointing at US using Pannu.
I've a different take on this. Panun may well be a nuisance . But think of him as the modern Avatar of Jagjit Singh Chauhan. For nearly 2 decades he was a 1 man show campaigning for Khalistan with only a few converts to the cause relegated to the margins & seen as a joke .

Enter Bhindranwale & the story after not a few sharp turns twists & U turns meshes with the demand for Khalistan after his violent demise although he himself never voiced support for either Khalistan or a separate homeland ever .


Even after the demand for Khalistan began to gain wide spread acceptance by the separatists angered at Operation BlueStar & the aftermath of IG's assassination , Chauhan himself never quite commanded any kind of presence among the Khalistani terrorists to accept his leadership nor did he have the kind of charisma as Bhindranwale.


The irony is Chauhan was once a minister in the Punjab cabinet & died peacefully at home in his native village after coming to terms with the then GoI in the 2000s spending much of his life in the interim as a fugitive.


Long story short , as far as the GoI goes , it's a question of once bitten twice shy. The GoI thinks it's better to nip the problem in the bud. Your arguments may have made sense if we didn't have the anti farm laws protests.

That in turn provided a filip to the Khalistanis like Nijjar & Panun unintentionally & before one realised it , the pot was kept boiling thru incidents like the referendum , violent protests outside Indian HCs & embassies , etc before Mootpal Singh made a sudden appearance on the scene .

I believe the GoI decided then & there , that enough is enough.
 

AnantS

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I've a different take on this. Panun may well be a nuisance . But think of him as the modern Avatar of Jagjit Singh Chauhan. For nearly 2 decades he was a 1 man show campaigning for Khalistan with a few converts to the cause . Enter Bhindranwale & the story after not a few sharp turns twists & U turns meshes with the demand for Khalistan after his violent demise although he himself never voiced support for either Khalistan or a separate homeland ever .


Even after the demand for Khalistan began to gain wide spread acceptance by the separatists angered at Operation BlueStar & the aftermath of IG's assassination , Chauhan himself never quite commanded any kind of presence for the Khalistani terrorists to accept his leadership nor did he have the kind of charisma as Bhindranwale.


The irony is Chauhan was once a minister in the Punjab cabinet & died peacefully at home in his native village after coming to terms with the then GoI in the 2000s spending much of his life in the interim as a fugitive.


Long story short , as far as the GoI goes , it's a question of once bitten twice shy. The GoI thinks it's better to nip the problem in the bud. Your arguments may have made sense if we didn't have the anti farm laws protests.

That in turn provided a filip to the Khalistanis like Nijjar & Panun unintentionally & before one realised it , the pot was kept boiling thru incidents like the referendum , violent protests outside Indian HCs & embassies , etc before Mootpal Singh made a sudden appearance on the scene .

I believe the GoI decided then & there , that enough is enough.
Saar India does not shoot rabble rousers. Had that been the case you have many much more juicier targets than Pannu ( like Majid Freeman etc). Heck even Nijjar is a collateral damage among Khali groups for taking out Ripu Daman. This all is anglo saxon way of harrasing frenemy. It used to be surprising and confusing for us non anglos - grey behavior or psycho acts of anglos . But frankly even colonial brits exhibited same while conquest. The policy is simple. Everyone is disposable for gains/profit. Allies are temp, profit is permanent ally.

But now rest world kind of know the anglo dance. Their steps have become predictable. Its all about world formulating effective strategy to spoil their dance.
 
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Master Chief

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AnantS

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Nirupama Subramanian article on RAW's sloppy work.. IPS, CRPF, CISF officers monopolizing RAW at the expense of RAW Cadre has been made by brown coolies as well.. earlier

Lol*... naxalLaundring as source Lol*....

LOL* trademark is reserved by @Xiphone. All rights reserved
 

bahadur shah duffer

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Are we looking at the chronology? Canada accused Indian government first, few days later 5 eyes intelligence came up, now the US is accusing Indian government.

One thing that is obvious is, the Canadian accusation backfired & the US one is sticking. All this looks like a calculated scheme which leads to something else, hence the retry.
 

Indrajit

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I believe the GoI decided then & there , that enough is enough.
If the story, as reported is true - this was a super sloppy job. If this was a R&AW sanctioned hit, we really are screwed.
 

Blademaster

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US forced Saudi Arabia to convict and sentence 5 intelligence agents to 20 years in prison. US couldn't isolate MBS, but they did extract their pound of flesh..

Do you really honestly believe that they were intelligence agents?
 

Indrajit

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Already Gujarat DGP dissmissed that there's no case against Nikhil Gupta.

Why Indian media still going with US statements & forming their own stories?
The problem is that fits in with the promise made, i.e. the criminal troubles for the Gupta guy would be taken care of.....can be spun both ways.
 

AnantS

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The problem is that fits in with the promise made, i.e. the criminal troubles for the Gupta guy would be taken care of.....can be spun both ways.
You are basing on premise that India is already guilty. The whole case is US agent offered to take out Pannu. Do we know story before? Audio can be doctored. Or false threat can be planted to raise heckles at India side. Remember embassies were getting attacked, dimplomats heckled and calls were being made for their assasination in knucklehead and Bob head land.
 

Indrajit

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You are basing on premise that India is already guilty. The whole case is US agent offered to take out Pannu. Do we know story before? Audio can be doctored. Or false threat can be planted to raise heckles at India side. Remember embassies were getting attacked, dimplomats heckled and calls were being made for their assasination in knucklehead and Bob head land.
I'm not basing it on any premise of guilt at all. I have repeatedly mentioned that I see this whole thing as stinking to the high heavens and making zero sense.

Just that the lack of a case on Gupta can be spun either way depending on the interest of those spinning it.
 

Azaad

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If the story, as reported is true - this was a super sloppy job. If this was a R&AW sanctioned hit, we really are screwed.
Why're we screwed even if it's a botched job apart from the obvious domestic implications as far as the competence of the organisation goes ? There's plausible deniability , the objective wasn't met & a message was sent to the target & the target's hosts.

If Panun continues in the same vein even after this , he's responsible for whatever fate has in store for him . This much should be made clear to the US.
 

Indrajit

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Why're we screwed even if it's a botched job apart from the obvious domestic implications as far as the competence of the organisation goes ? There's plausible deniability , the objective wasn't met & a message was sent to the target & the target's hosts.

If Panun continues in the same vein even after this , he's responsible for whatever fate has in store for him . This much should be made clear to the US.
While agreeing with the messaging part, I simply find it very hard to believe that this was a R&AW operation. Even NYT mentions the issue of the clumsiness in this case as opposed to what they cite as the sophistication of top Indian intelligence officers. I'll wait for things to be clearer before pronouncing judgment on any "operation"
 

Indrajit

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Again Dhoti Shivering??

No need to be jumping up and down on Amreeka bahadurs command.
My dhoti never shivers.:) Read my previous posts to get an understanding of where I stand on this.
 

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