Top economies in next 10 years

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
I am in Guangzhou which is a 14 hour flight back to Charles de Gaulle. I own a rental property in Corsica which is a 5hr journey by ferry to Marseille and TGV to Paris. I enjoyed taking that trip. Sitting in economy airlines for 28hrs is not my idea of fun.
What ru doing in Guangzhou and how do you criticize China while sitting there?
 

mattster

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
1,171
Likes
870
Country flag
So why not set up plants in North Korea, Cuba or Zimbabwe?
There is an embargo against Cuba that is enforced. That means you can't even legally fly to Cuba as an American citizen. American companies are not going to invest in countries that are embargoed but that list is tiny compared to the countries of the world. I believe the 3 countries above and Iran are the only countries on that list. There is nothing stopping an American company building a plant in Bhutan or mongolia or Congo if they want.

Even if the list is not there, it is laughable that anyone is going to invest in north Korea with that crazy regime. Maybe you would like to invest in north Korea or Zimbabwe but most businessman invest to make money.
 
Last edited:

Param

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
2,810
Likes
653
The US government is not the Indian Government. It is not the license Raj of India. It does not dictate to its private companies what they should do, where they should buy parts from, and where they should manufacture their products or when they should take a shit !!!!!!!!!
.
The US govt does not need to dictate terms, they can just declare a country as rogue nation and place a trade embargo. So simple.
America is a Capitalist country and Capitalism is the strongest force in that country. Its ultimately their interests in making profit that made them go crazy about investing in China.
 

Blackwater

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
21,156
Likes
12,211
I am in Guangzhou which is a 14 hour flight back to Charles de Gaulle. I own a rental property in Corsica which is a 5hr journey by ferry to Marseille and TGV to Paris. I enjoyed taking that trip. Sitting in economy airlines for 28hrs is not my idea of fun.
R you living in China permanently or for time being?????????
 

AOE

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
437
Likes
23
The reason they have sanctions is because they where communists who tried to kill the Democratic regimes, Just like China.

Well they did not care for Democratic China called Taiwan, why do they need to care for S.K?
Yes I know why the sanctions were placed there, since they are communist dictatorships; although I did say that in the case of China, capitalism came first as it was Nixon/Kissingers attempt to encourage the Sino-Soviet split. You also might like to look into the history of Taiwan, as it was not a democracy during Nixons visit to China, it was under martial law.

Dude, dont tell me you just justified for China!!!! we end up defending Nixon and China for what? I think both are crooks and China should have been under knee deep sanctions, look at them now comeing here tell us how screwed up we are and democracy is a sack of shit.
It wasn't a justification, I was agreeing with you and you didn't realize it lol. I even said myself I would have preferred that China collapse at the end of the Cold War, but that's not how events unfolded, unfortunately.

Well i have an mouse made in Taiwan and a shoe made in China! That only shows US cares more for Capitalism than Democracy and Human rights! Its a matter of convince just like when they bombed Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11 and was more friendly towards the US than China or Pakistan ever was. Yet one gets bombed and other gets the jobs, i think US is more concerned about money,market capitalization and oil than it is with Democracy and Human Rights. That is the tragedy of it all, that you hear them speak of Democracy but watch them work for Capital gains.
Iraq was certainly not friendlier to the US prior to the 2003 war, relations soured significantly after the Gulf War and the sanctions that followed. Iraq is actually a major reason why I prefer direct confrontation to sanctions in the first place, as they had little effect on the country while the UN Oil-For-Food program was abused heavily, allowing Saddam the ability to buy weapons while leaving his people to starve.

China itself is an exception as I highlighted earlier; where capitalism overtook democratic values, but you need to look at the bigger picture rather than just focus on the exceptions to the rule. India itself has supported dictatorships in the past, does that mean I should turn around and say that India in general does not advocate or support the spread of democracy? No, that would be false. No countries history is perfect, and as I said before; sometimes it is easier to be an idealist by pointing out these inconsistencies than it is to be a politician put in the same difficult situations without hindsight. This is by no means a justification, but pointing out how subjective politics is at the end of the day.

The US is trying hard to become protectionist and it was Europe and other Nations that sued US for double standards.
I even said this myself, what is your point?
 

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
Yes I know why the sanctions were placed there, since they are communist dictatorships; although I did say that in the case of China, capitalism came first as it was Nixon/Kissingers attempt to encourage the Sino-Soviet split. You also might like to look into the history of Taiwan, as it was not a democracy during Nixons visit to China, it was under martial law.
Well i agree as well, there is not much disagreement apart from the fact that what happened was inevitable.



It wasn't a justification, I was agreeing with you and you didn't realize it lol. I even said myself I would have preferred that China collapse at the end of the Cold War, but that's not how events unfolded, unfortunately.



Iraq was certainly not friendlier to the US prior to the 2003 war, relations soured significantly after the Gulf War and the sanctions that followed. Iraq is actually a major reason why I prefer direct confrontation to sanctions in the first place, as they had little effect on the country while the UN Oil-For-Food program was abused heavily, allowing Saddam the ability to buy weapons while leaving his people to starve.

China itself is an exception as I highlighted earlier; where capitalism overtook democratic values, but you need to look at the bigger picture rather than just focus on the exceptions to the rule. India itself has supported dictatorships in the past, does that mean I should turn around and say that India in general does not advocate or support the spread of democracy? No, that would be false. No countries history is perfect, and as I said before; sometimes it is easier to be an idealist by pointing out these inconsistencies than it is to be a politician put in the same difficult situations without hindsight. This is by no means a justification, but pointing out how subjective politics is at the end of the day.



I even said this myself, what is your point?

Well India never stood for imposing Democracy or neither did it put itself as the Savior of it. It was NATO who thought Democracy should be spread by the pen or the sword. Iraq and Saddam where allies of US during Iran-Iraq war, Saddam was very pro US till he invaded Kuwait. Either way saying no country is perfect would be a good justification if that country did not repeat that mistake, what we see with the US is it is still not only repeating those mistakes but also dwelling on it. Its one thing to support Saudis Arabia for oil security and it is another to support China. I could even understand its relation with Pakistan and its need in Soviet Afgan war but what the hell did China ever do to Democracies apart from Harass us and invade us.

China even today funds N.K, Iran and all the other hostile nations while US goes and Invades Iraq in the name of 9/11. China should have never been allowed to grow so big.

I agree with most of what you said but what we do with China from now on beats me!! Because the west literally invented a super power that is hostile and where we go from here, i have no clue.
 
Last edited:

mattster

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
1,171
Likes
870
Country flag
Well i agree as well, there is not much disagreement apart from the fact that what happened was inevitable.






Well India never stood for imposing Democracy or neither did it put itself as the Savior of it. It was NATO who thought Democracy should be spread by the pen or the sword. Iraq and Saddam where allies of US during Iran-Iraq war, Saddam was very pro US till he invaded Kuwait. Either way saying no country is perfect would be a good justification if that country did not repeat that mistake, what we see with the US is it is still not only repeating those mistakes but also dwelling on it. Its one thing to support Saudis Arabia for oil security and it is another to support China. I could even understand its relation with Pakistan and its need in Soviet Afgan war but what the hell did China ever do to Democracies apart from Harass us and invade us.

China even today funds N.K, Iran and all the other hostile nations while US goes and Invades Iraq in the name of 9/11. China should have never been allowed to grow so big.

I agree with most of what you said but what we do with China from now on beats me!! Because the west literally invented a super power that is hostile and where we go from here, i have no clue.
I am no fan of China or the CCP. But for heaven's sake, man.....lets not get so condescending about China's success by claiming that it was invented in the West. China's economic success is due to the fact that the Chinese people have worked like slaves for 2 generations and made enormous sacrifices both in human and environmental terms, and they have had some smart decisive leaders who dumped socialist economics when it had outlived its purpose.

To say that the US invented a super-power in China is just plain ludicrous. Americans companies have made huge profits while the Chinese companies that produce these products made a pittance. If you dont believe me, then go do the research yourself. Find out how much Apple makes for each Iphone and compare that number with what Foxconn makes and what the workers there make.
 
Last edited:

AOE

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
437
Likes
23
Well i agree as well, there is not much disagreement apart from the fact that what happened was inevitable.
Well India never stood for imposing Democracy or neither did it put itself as the Savior of it. It was NATO who thought Democracy should be spread by the pen or the sword.
What about the Bangladesh Liberation War? Although I am glad that it happened, but technically that would count as 'imposing' democracy through the 'sword.'

Iraq and Saddam where allies of US during Iran-Iraq war, Saddam was very pro US till he invaded Kuwait.
This is partially correct, and I think this was shameful; however, this is lacking a depth of information. The extent to which the US supported Iraq in the 1980s is exaggerated often. If you are familiar with SIPRI, they have research to show that the US supplied less than 1% of Iraqs total arms between 1973-2003. I know this is 1% too much, but contrast that with the vast, overwhelming majority that was supplied by Saddam Husseins biggest ally, the Soviet Union; 57%. Now ask yourself the question; why is it the US receives the most flak about this, yet the Soviet Union received marginal criticism? Some of this support continued (as Russia) until coalition forces arrived on the scene in 2003. Indeed, why is it democratic regimes receive the most criticism, yet authoritarian societies receive little in contrast?

Either way saying no country is perfect would be a good justification if that country did not repeat that mistake, what we see with the US is it is still not only repeating those mistakes but also dwelling on it. Its one thing to support Saudis Arabia for oil security and it is another to support China. I could even understand its relation with Pakistan and its need in Soviet Afgan war but what the hell did China ever do to Democracies apart from Harass us and invade us.
I can't find anything to fundamentally disagree with here, but I can say that if you want to find the culprit responsible for the opening of relations between the US and China in the 70s; the answer is realpolitik. I generally avoid this kind of thinking, unless the Americans are put in a situation where they have to choose the lesser of the two evils.

China even today funds N.K, Iran and all the other hostile nations while US goes and Invades Iraq in the name of 9/11. China should have never been allowed to grow so big.
The US went to Iraq on the basis of more than one reason, but only on the point of capturing/executing terrorists and regime change were they successful. As for the rest; I also agree here, and I often think of these reasons as justifications for the US to liberate said countries on similar grounds (regime change).

I agree with most of what you said but what we do with China from now on beats me!! Because the west literally invented a super power that is hostile and where we go from here, i have no clue.
I can make the same argument with the NAM and the siding with the USSR, but I think we've already been through this. India could have been the China of today minus the communist dictatorship, but oh well.

The flip side in all of this is that China, although it adopted the free market principles of Milton Friedman in order to become successful; it did so in a way that it kept control of the workers and peasants for slavery/serfdom. If the Chinese bubble bursts in the future, it will create a sea of millions of disillusioned people who have been living in poverty, and the possibility of revolution becomes a reality. If that doesn't happen, the US will continue to play a game of chess by encircling and containing China. I've heard many times that the Chinese don't want to go to war with the US, namely because they will be trashed; that's why they wont be hasty on Taiwan.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top