Today China is what US was

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Daredevil

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Other than slightly more sophisticated satellites, what can the US do in space that China cannot? Want me to post the Chinese spacewalk again?
Dude, are you smoking something. US has landed a human on Moon some 3 decades ago, did China?. Most of your rocket technology is from USSR and even your space walk has a lot of support from Russia. Don't delude yourself. China has still a lot of years left to catch up to US in many fields.
 

NSG_Blackcats

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Greater "internet connectivity and mobile subscriber base" decreases the cost of business. Also, greater broadband penetration permits on-line education, which may be the only opportunity for rural students to obtain a higher education. I didn't write a long-winded article when I made my original post on broadband penetration because I thought it was obvious. I thought broadband and its benefits was widely available in India.

There are some who believe that broadband internet connections have no value. Think about it for a second. Why would the Indian government go to the trouble of rolling out broadband if it has no value? Why does most business and electronics magazine write articles and discuss statistics regarding broadband internet penetration if it has no value or significance?
Do you know anything else apart from internet connectivity?

How you going to rate China with US when we compare –
1.Human right violations
2. Citizen liberty
3.Accountability to its citizens
4.Contribution in world peace
5. Providing financial assistance to underprivileged and poor nation.
 

Martian

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Japan also has the same policy. Will you say the same thing about Japan’s influence in this world?



Simple question for you. Suppose there is a disruption of Oil supply to China from Gulf countries. Does Chinese navy have the capability to take part in any conflict like that of the US Navy?



Even if China continues to grow at 10% and US at 2.5%, it may take china 30/40 years to come near to per capita income of US.



How many manned mission to moon has been carried out by China? How many space shuttles of China have landed in moon? If you have any links post them.


Even Pakistan has a very good internet consumer base and mobile phone density. Sorry to say, your theory fails there.
I think your first question is the hardest, but I'll give it my best.

Japan is different from China in important ways. First China has 1.3 billion people and Japan has only 128 million. Over time, as China's economy matures, China's economy and its attraction to foreign companies will be ten times stronger than Japan's. Militarily, China has 200 to 400 thermonuclear warheads. Japan has none. China is a continent that is 3.7 million square miles or over 9 million square kilometers. China has gigantic natural resources (want me to post links?). Japan is four small islands in the ocean with no resources (i.e. coal, iron-ore, copper, etc.). In conclusion, the difference in economic size, military power, and natural-resource endowment means that Japan can never hope to match China's influence in the world. China's ultimate economic and military power will be far larger than Japan's. China's natural resources make her immune or at least highly resistant to embargoes.

Currently, the Chinese Navy is only afraid of the US Navy. China has plenty of submarines. Also, if it wants to, China can build a lot more submarines or Chinese-Aegis cruisers. However, I agree that China's Navy is not qualitatively as good as the US and it cannot defeat the US Navy in the short or medium-term. China is busy planning its aircraft carrier. If there's an oil disruption and the US Navy does not oppose the Chinese Navy, I believe China can solve the problem.

No argument. It'll take decades for China's GDP per capita to approach the US level. But hey, living as well as the average Hungarian in the near or mid-term isn't bad.

Currently, the US can't land a man on the moon either. China plans to land on the moon in ten to fifteen years. NASA is in a rush to raise the funds to beat the Chinese back to the moon. However, with the US Great Recession, I'm now betting that China will get there first.

The space shuttle costs $1.5 billion dollars per launch. It only costs the Chinese 60 million dollars to launch a satellite into orbit. The space shuttle is ridiculously expensive and that's why it's being retired. I predict that the Chinese will never build a space-shuttle equivalent. They might research the technology, but the known $1.5 billion dollar operational cost per flight will deter them from building it.

Pakistan's "good internet consumer base and mobile phone density" has helped its economy stay afloat. Without the lower cost of business transactions, Pakistan's economy would be even smaller.
 

Martian

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Do you know anything else apart from internet connectivity?

How you going to rate China with US when we compare –
1.Human right violations
2. Citizen liberty
3.Accountability to its citizens
4.Contribution in world peace
5. Providing financial assistance to underprivileged and poor nation.
1. Every country has human rights violations. See my thread in the Russian Defense section with thread title "Russian Human Rights Violations." I'm a patriotic American. I will not list US human rights violations unless you torture me. (It's okay to laugh at one of my jokes) You already know what they are: Abu Ghraib, Guantanomo, illegal repatriations, water-boarding, etc.

2. Based on the experience of Taiwan and South Korea, the transition from a military dictatorship/autocracy to democracy is most likely to occur between $9,500 to $15,000 nominal dollars per capita income. China's GDP per capita is currently at roughly $3,200 (year 2008) or $3,500 (year 2009). I see no reason why China will be exempt from the wealth effect. I fully expect them to make the transition at some point; perhaps no later than $20,000 per capita.

3. Current approval rating from its citizenry is 87%, the highest in the world. Wouldn't you approve of a government that's delivering roughly 10% economic growth per year for the last 30 years?

4. Among the P5, China contributes the most peacekeeping troops to UN authorized peacekeeping actions.

5. See Measures announced at FOCAC Beijing Summit all achieved - China.org.cn

"The eight measures for China-Africa practical cooperation announced by Chinese President Hu Jintao at the Beijing Summit of the FOCAC had been implemented, and the target set out in the summit had been achieved, said Chen.

The eight measures included China's pledge to double its 2006 assistance to Africa by 2009, provide 3 billion U.S. dollars of preferential loans and 2 billion dollars of preferential buyer's credits to Africa, and establish a development fund of 5 billion dollars to encourage Chinese firms to invest in Africa. Debt cancellation was another major measure.

The minister observed that aid to Africa was steadily expanding, adding that "preferential funding has been put in place."

According to Chen, by the end of 2009, the provision of 3 billion dollars worth of preferential loans and 2 billion dollars worth of preferential export buyer's credit would have been fully implemented.

"Debt cancellation commitments are honored timely," said the minister, pointing out that debt cancellation procedures for the 154 debt payments of 33 countries had so far been all completed."

See http://www.china.org.cn/world/2009-11/08/content_18848026.htm

#
As the first of the eight new measures, China proposes to establish a China-Africa partnership in addressing climate change. China would enhance cooperation on satellite weather monitoring, development and utilization of new energy sources, prevention and control of desertification and urban environmental protection. China has decided to build 100 clean energy projects for Africa covering solar power, bio-gas and small hydro-power.
#
Second, China will enhance cooperation with Africa in science and technology. China proposes to launch a China-Africa science and technology partnership, under which China would carry out 100 joint demonstration projects with Africa on scientific and technological research and receive 100 African postdoctoral fellows to conduct scientific research in China.
#
Third, China will help Africa build up financing capacity. China would provide 10 billion U.S. dollars in concessional loans to African countries, and support Chinese financial institutions in setting up a special loan of 1 billion dollars for small- and medium-sized African businesses. For the heavily indebted countries and least developed countries in Africa having diplomatic relations with China, China would cancel their debts associated with interest-free government loans due to mature by the end of 2009.
#
Fourth, China will further open up its market to African products. China would phase in zero-tariff treatment to 95 percent of the products from the least developed African countries having diplomatic relations with China, starting with 60 percent of the products within 2010.
#
Fifth, China will further enhance cooperation with Africa in agriculture. China would increase the number of its agricultural technology demonstration centers in Africa to 20, send 50 agricultural technology teams to Africa and train 2,000 agricultural technology personnel for Africa, in order to help boost the continent's food security.
#
Sixth, China will deepen cooperation in medical care and health. China would provide medical equipment and anti-malaria materials worth 500 million yuan (73.2 million U.S. dollars) to the 30 hospitals and 30 malaria prevention and treatment centers built by China and train 3,000 doctors and nurses for Africa.
#
Seventh, China will enhance cooperation in human resources development and education. China would build 50 schools and train 1,500 school principals and teachers for African countries. By 2012, China would increase the number of Chinese government scholarships to Africa to 5,500, and would also train 20,000 professionals for Africa over the next three years.

Want me to post all of the positive press (i.e. such as from allAfrica.com) from the African countries regarding China's assistance and 95% fulfillment of pledges?
 

NSG_Blackcats

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Japan is different from China in important ways. First China has 1.3 billion people and Japan has only 128 million. Over time, as China's economy matures, China's economy and its attraction to foreign companies will be ten times stronger than Japan's. Militarily, China has 200 to 400 thermonuclear warheads. Japan has none. China is a continent that is 3.7 million square miles or over 9 million square kilometers. China has gigantic natural resources (want me to post links?). Japan is four small islands in the ocean with no resources (i.e. coal, iron-ore, copper, etc.). In conclusion, the difference in economic size, military power, and natural-resource endowment means that Japan can never hope to match China's influence in the world. China's ultimate economic and military power will be far larger than Japan's. China's natural resources makes her immune or at least highly resistant to embargoes.
I was not asking about the geographical statistics of Japan. But with 4 small islands Japan is the 2nd largest economy of the world. There is no chance of China reaching there in next 25 years.

Currently, the Chinese Navy is only afraid of the US Navy. China has plenty of submarines. Also, if it wants to, China can build a lot more submarines or Chinese-Aegis cruisers. However, I agree that China's Navy is not qualitatively as good as the US and it cannot defeat the US Navy in the short or medium-term. China is busy planning its aircraft carrier. If there's an oil disruption and the US Navy does not oppose the Chinese Navy, I believe China can solve the problem.
How many Aircraft carriers posed by Chinese Navy today? If you want to know about US aircraft Carriers please use Google. China is not able to make an engine for fighter plane. Till today they are using Russian engine for their fighter planes. (Check what engine they are using on JF-17 and J-10). US Navy will destroy Chinese navy in few hours in the Gulf region.

No argument. It'll take decades for China's GDP per capita to approach the US level. But hey, living as well as the average Hungarian in the near or mid-term isn't bad.
Here you are comparing China with US. But I agree China is prosperous than Somalia, Uganda and many more countries. But China’s per capita is way below than even nations like Switzerland, Sweden, Germany and a lot of western countries.

Currently, the US can't land a man on the moon either. China plans to land on the moon in ten to fifteen years. NASA is in a rush to raise the funds to beat the Chinese back to the moon. However, with the US Great Recession, I'm now betting that China will get there first.
US cannot land a man on moon.:eek:
Is it your own imagination or what?:crazy:
I don’t know from where you got this story. Recently a US team had gone to space station for doing repair works and to provide logistics.

The space shuttle costs $1.5 billion dollars to launch. It only costs the Chinese 60 million dollars to launch a satellite into orbit. The space shuttle is ridiculously expensive and that's why it's being retired. I predict that the Chinese will never build a space-shuttle equivalent. They might research the technology, but the known $1.5 billion dollar operational cost per flight will deter them from building it.
Let’s put it this way, Chinese do not have the technology to build a space shuttle.
 

Martian

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I was not asking about the geographical statistics of Japan. But with 4 small islands Japan is the 2nd largest economy of the world. There is no chance of China reaching there in next 25 years.



How many Aircraft carriers posed by Chinese Navy today? If you want to know about US aircraft Carriers please use Google. China is not able to make an engine for fighter plane. Till today they are using Russian engine for their fighter planes. (Check what engine they are using on JF-17 and J-10). US Navy will destroy Chinese navy in few hours in the Gulf region.



Here you are comparing China with US. But I agree China is prosperous than Somalia, Uganda and many more countries. But China’s per capita is way below than even nations like Switzerland, Sweden, Germany and a lot of western countries.



US cannot land a man on moon.:eek:
Is it your own imagination or what?:crazy:
I don’t know from where you got this story. Recently a US team had gone to space station for doing repair works and to provide logistics.



Let’s put it this way, Chinese do not have the technology to build a space shuttle.
1. According to the IMF and most Western press, next year, China's economy will be larger than the Japanese economy. See List of countries by future GDP (nominal) estimates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For 2010, China's GDP should be about $5,263.327 and Japan's GDP should be about $5,187.464 (in billions).

2. No argument. US Navy is numero uno.

3. On Youtube, look at videos of Chinese cities with the happy Chinese consumers. I don't think they're complaining. For 2009, China's GDP per capita is $3,565 and India's is $981 (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_future_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita_estimates ) Think of it this way. If you're happy in India, the Chinese are arguably 3.5 times happier.

4. "The International Space Station is approximately 220 miles (354 km) from earth at any given time." See space station distance from earth - Google Search The moon is 250,000 miles from Earth. The moon is over 100 times further away from the Earth than the International Space Station. I take it you didn't know that and thought the space shuttle can fly to the moon?

During the Apollo program from roughly 1969 to 1972, the United States landed 12 astronauts on the moon. The rocket that was used to transport the US astronauts to the moon was the Saturn V. There are only four decayed shells of Saturn Vs lying around the US. The US does not currently possess a rocket to send a person to the moon. The US is busy testing the new Ares series of rockets. Two of the three parachutes did not open and the booster was damaged when it hit the ocean. I think we're going to see delays in its development.

See http://blog.al.com/breaking/2009/04/ares_rocket_delays_could_lead.html

5. I am willing to respect your opinion regarding China's ability to build a space shuttle. I don't think anybody knows. They don't publish a lot of data to enable an educated guess. Most people speculate until the Chinese decide to unveil the goods when they're ready.
 

Daredevil

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Delete Martian - 12:31 PM 11-12-2009

You keep saying that. How so? Does the US have a space ship that can fly to Mars?
I cannot believe that I'm arguing with a dense person. Do you even do some research before posing such questions.

Don't you know Americans have landed a rover on 'Mars'?. Do you think they did some magic to land the rover on Mars or did they use 'rocket' to land the moon rover. Read a little more for your own good.

BTW, they landed Mars rover on Mars some 6 years ago. And chinese are still happy space walking :lol:

Mars Exploration Rover Mission: Home

NASA's twin robot geologists, the Mars Exploration Rovers, launched toward Mars on June 10 and July 7, 2003, in search of answers about the history of water on Mars. They landed on Mars January 3 and January 24 PST, 2004 (January 4 and January 25 UTC, 2004).

The Mars Exploration Rover mission is part of NASA's Mars Exploration Program, a long-term effort of robotic exploration of the red planet.

Primary among the mission's scientific goals is to search for and characterize a wide range of rocks and soils that hold clues to past water activity on Mars. The spacecraft are targeted to sites on opposite sides of Mars that appear to have been affected by liquid water in the past. The landing sites are at Gusev Crater, a possible former lake in a giant impact crater, and Meridiani Planum, where mineral deposits (hematite) suggest Mars had a wet past.

After the airbag-protected landing craft settled onto the surface and opened, the rovers rolled out to take panoramic images. These images give scientists the information they need to select promising geological targets that tell part of the story of water in Mars' past. Then, the rovers drive to those locations to perform on-site scientific investigations.
 

badguy2000

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Chinese expressways net got mass-constructed in fact after East Asian crisis in 1997,although limited expressways were built in early 1990s.

At that time ,in order to resist the impact of east Asia financial cirsis, CHinese government borrowed lots of T-bonds and spent them mainly on upgrading infrastructures such as seaports and expressways.

When Chinese entered WTO , those expressways also have been finished and help CHinese economy rocket up to a new altitude in only several years.

Now, a more economy crsis has come and CHinese government starts borrow T-Bonds. agains. But this time, CHinese government spent those T-bonds in upgrading railways.

anyhow, the high-speed railway net will have more deep impact on CHinese life-style and economy than expressway. It will help CHinese economy rocket up to a new higher altitude
 

Martian

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I cannot believe that I'm arguing with a dense person. Do you even do some research before posing such questions.

Don't you know Americans have landed a rover on 'Mars'?. Do you think they did some magic to land the rover on Mars or did they use 'rocket' to land the moon rover. Read a little more for your own good.

BTW, they landed Mars rover on Mars some 6 years ago. And chinese are still happy space walking :lol:
What's the big deal with landing a microwave-sized metal box on Mars? The delay isn't in landing a "microwave" on Mars. The problem is what are the instruments and the scientific goals that you intend to achieve after a roughly $250 million dollar cost to land a "microwave" object on another planet.

China develops rover for mission to moon - Space- msnbc.com

"SHANGHAI, China - Scientists in Shanghai are developing a nuclear-powered lunar rover for the country's first unmanned mission to the moon in 2012, newspapers reported Monday."

China will land her first "microwave" on the moon in 2012. What's the big deal about landing a "microwave" on the moon or Mars? If you talk about human spaceflight and the complications of life-support and the emotional impact of seeing a human being on a planetoid (i.e. Moon) or the even more impressive foreign planet (i.e. Mars) then that's another story.

Long March 5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The CZ-5 rocket is due to be first launched in 2014 from Wenchang Satellite Launch Center on Hainan island."

When China's new heavy-lift CZ-5 rocket is ready in 2014, the Chinese can also land a "microwave" on Mars. Are you happy now that the gap is being closed soon? Human spaceflight is impressive and hard to do. Landing a metal box somewhere is pedestrian.
 

Daredevil

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What's the big deal with landing a microwave-sized metal box on Mars? The delay isn't in landing a "microwave" on Mars. The problem is what are the instruments and the scientific goals that you intend to achieve after a roughly $250 million dollar cost to land a "microwave" object on another planet.

China develops rover for mission to moon - Space- msnbc.com

"SHANGHAI, China - Scientists in Shanghai are developing a nuclear-powered lunar rover for the country's first unmanned mission to the moon in 2012, newspapers reported Monday."

China will land her first "microwave" on the moon in 2012. What's the big deal about landing a "microwave" on the moon or Mars? If you talk about human spaceflight and the complications of life-support and the emotional impact of seeing a human being on a planetoid (i.e. Moon) or the even more impressive foreign planet (i.e. Mars) then that's another story.

Long March 5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The CZ-5 rocket is due to be first launched in 2014 from Wenchang Satellite Launch Center on Hainan island."

When China's new heavy-lift CZ-5 rocket is ready in 2014, the Chinese can also land a "microwave" on Mars. Are you happy now that the gap is being closed soon?
You show your IQ by calling a rover as a microwave box. How much more denseness are you going to display here????.

If you have read further what I have posted about Mars rover you wouldn't have asked me about the goals of such $250m project. OK, here read again by clicking this link http://marsrover.nasa.gov/

Americans have landed a man more than 3 decades ago and you are still unable to land, as you call it, a microwave box even now. You further show your dishonesty by not giving credit to american for landing rover on Mars but you want to give credit to China for not even launched programs. I can only but :rofl: at your die hard portrayal of China as a super power which is just about to over take US. Ignorance, as people say, is bliss and I see you are blissful these days :D.
 

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Currently, the US can't land a man on the moon either. China plans to land on the moon in ten to fifteen years. NASA is in a rush to raise the funds to beat the Chinese back to the moon. However, with the US Great Recession, I'm now betting that China will get there first.

This is a classic !

So you're one of them who believe Apollo-11 was a hoax ? :D
 

Daredevil

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This is a classic !

So you're one of them who believe Apollo-11 was a hoax ? :D
If we were to believe Martian, then India is the first country to hoist a flag on moon. :D.

More power to your Martian. Ironically, your username implies that you belong to Mars yet you don't believe in American's 'Mars' Rover err microwave.:D
 

Martian

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This is a classic !

So you're one of them who believe Apollo-11 was a hoax ? :D
I'm surprised that none of you follow US aerospace news.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20091210/NEWS02/712109722

"But hours earlier, congressional appropriators reached a different conclusion, approving legislative language declaring that any change to Constellation, which aims to return astronauts to the moon by 2020 but is running well behind schedule, must first get the approval of Congress.

That language, inserted by U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., should pass this month as part of a nearly $450 billion omnibus appropriations bill. It would require NASA to spend nearly $4 billion on the program this fiscal year, effectively tying Obama’s hands as he attempts to forge a new NASA policy that is likely to cancel Constellation’s Ares I rocket."

1. Need Ares rocket from Constellation program to travel to moon. Flapping of arms by astronauts has been proven not to work.

2. Obama "is likely to cancel Constellation's Ares I rocket," but Congress wants to tie "Obama's hands."

3. "Constellation, which aims to return astronauts to the moon by 2020 but is running well behind schedule."

4. Only if Constellation is not canceled and Ares I rocket is produced by 2020+ can NASA fly astronauts to the moon.

5. Lack of Ares I rocket implies NASA has no current capability to fly someone to the moon.
 

badguy2000

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I'm surprised that none of you follow US aerospace news.

HeraldNet: Lawmakers try to prevent Obama from cutting NASA

"But hours earlier, congressional appropriators reached a different conclusion, approving legislative language declaring that any change to Constellation, which aims to return astronauts to the moon by 2020 but is running well behind schedule, must first get the approval of Congress.

That language, inserted by U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., should pass this month as part of a nearly $450 billion omnibus appropriations bill. It would require NASA to spend nearly $4 billion on the program this fiscal year, effectively tying Obama’s hands as he attempts to forge a new NASA policy that is likely to cancel Constellation’s Ares I rocket."

1. Need Ares rocket from Constellation program to travel to moon. Flapping of arms by astronauts has been proven not to work.

2. Obama "is likely to cancel Constellation's Ares I rocket," but Congress wants to tie "Obama's hands."

3. "Constellation, which aims to return astronauts to the moon by 2020 but is running well behind schedule."

4. Only if Constellation is not canceled and Ares I rocket is produced by 2020+ can NASA fly astronauts to the moon.

5. Lack of Ares I rocket implies NASA has no current capability to fly someone to the moon.

money is the mother of R&D and military power.

no money ,no power.
 

p2prada

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forget such odd excuses.

highspeed trains and railways needs the supports of full industry chains,just like spaceships and aircrafts.

it is a high-tech combination of many industy sections such as metallurgy, eletronics ,automatics ,machining and so on.
Cough! ISRO......ahem! Cough Cough!

We don't have high speed trains because there is no market for it as of now. Simple as that. Your full industry chain gimmick is getting old. We have had full industry chains since the 70s. It's just not as big as China's. That's all. China caters to the needs of the world while India does not. That's about the only difference.

Metallurgy, electronics, Automatics(no idea what that means), machining etc etc is something we also have. You cannot build a TATA Nano without all that.

We have spaceships and aircrafts too. That proves we have full industry chains. We manufacture locomotives, cars, planes, rockets, pocket calculator etc. So, what's deficient in our system?
 

Daredevil

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money is the mother of R&D and military power.

no money ,no power.
Not exactly.

Money != R&D and military power - take the example of Gulf countries. They are rich but there is no R&D and are no big military powers.

It should be more like money & brain == Super power
 

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Cough! ISRO......ahem! Cough Cough!

We don't have high speed trains because there is no market for it as of now. Simple as that. Your full industry chain gimmick is getting old. We have had full industry chains since the 70s. It's just not as big as China's. That's all. China caters to the needs of the world while India does not. That's about the only difference.

Metallurgy, electronics, Automatics(no idea what that means), machining etc etc is something we also have. You cannot build a TATA Nano without all that.

We have spaceships and aircrafts too. That proves we have full industry chains. We manufacture locomotives, cars, planes, rockets, pocket calculator etc. So, what's deficient in our system?
For starters, how about a transportation infrastructure that actually works. You manufacture planes? That is new to me..all I can think of are those Su-30's you guys build. But even then, those are just kits sent from Russia.
 

p2prada

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For starters, how about a transportation infrastructure that actually works. You manufacture planes? That is new to me..all I can think of are those Su-30's you guys build. But even then, those are just kits sent from Russia.
Cough Cough! Check links...cough.

List of countries by rail transport network size - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
At 65k km. We are quite on top of this list too. So, no issues considering India is 3 times smaller than China.

Welcome to NHAI
Indian road network of 33 lakh Km(3.3 million km) is second largest in the world.

Embarrassing for China(1.9 million km) considering she is 3 times bigger than India.

So, we have a transportation infrastructure that actually works thank you.

As for MKIs:
100% homemade engines (not kits assembly)
HAL testing indigenous Su-30MKI engine | Flareout

100% homemade MKI (not kits assembly) in the works.
The Hindu : National : Total indigenisation of Sukhoi next year: HAL

Then we have:
HF-24 Marut
The first prototype flew on June 17, 1961, with a total of 147 aircraft built, including 18 two-seat HF-24 Mk 1Ts.
India's First Nuclear Reactor - Apsara - First Indian Atomic Reactor
India's First Nuclear Reactor was Apsara. It was also the first nuclear reactor in Asia. Apsara went critical at Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC), Trombay on August 4, 1956.
Any doubts about that full industry chain thingy or still living in the dream world.:rolleyes:
 
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