Time to reduce personnel count of Indian Army

Do you think its time to reduce personnel count in Indian Army?


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Dark Sorrow

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In this modern era technology has been the most dominating factor in deciding the outcome of a conflict. Gone are the days where numerical superiority meant everything.
Taking in account that salary and pension take more than half of the budget I think its time we reduce our active personnel by half a million and a similar reduction for reserve personnel .

The Indian Army accounts for more than half of the total defense budget of India, with most of the expenditure going to the maintenance of cantonments, salaries and pensions, instead of critical arms and ammunition.

Composition of expenditure of ministry of defence for 2020-21 (in %)

1607712429903.png


Changing composition of the defence budget (2015-16 to 2020-21)

1607712660360.png


Expenditure on salaries of civilian employees (2010-11 to 2020-21) (in Rs crore)

1607712732507.png


Composition of Army Budget (2020-21) (in Rs crore)


HeadAmount allocated% of service budget
Pensions 1,13,257 38.1%
Salaries 1,11,294 37.5%
Modernisation 26,069 8.8%
Maintenance 18,328 6.2%
Others 28,088 9.5%
Total2,97,035



Composition of Navy Budget (2020-21) (in Rs crore)


HeadAmount allocated% of service budget
Modernisation 24,59840%
Salaries 13,05921%
Pensions 7,23412%
Maintenance 6,96011%
Others10,03916%
Total61,890



Composition of Indian Air Force Budget (2020-21) (in Rs Crore)


HeadAmount allocated% of service budget
Modernisation 39,03145%
Salaries 17,93921%
Pensions 13,31315%
Maintenance 9,11011%
Others7,1658%
Total86,558

Taking a look at salary and pension bill we are not able to invest in modernization (specifically R&D).
Taking PRC as an example I think we should start reducing personnel count from Army


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ezsasa

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Nope, unless it has been qualitatively proven that equipment upgrade along with manpower reduction can manage defending the 15,106.7 km border, all of them at the same time if required.

powers that may be can think of manpower reduction when atleast threat from any one of the two major fronts has been rendered inactive.

more importantly, these discussions were happening when nobody thought domestic defence private industry will succeed in the country, a portion of defence budget now is being funded by defence industry and vice versa.

the way things are going around the world, IA might need to start thinking of expeditionary forces in 10-15 years time frame.
 

rock127

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In this modern era technology has been the most dominating factor in deciding the outcome of a conflict. Gone are the days where numerical superiority meant everything.
Taking in account that salary and pension take more than half of the budget I think its time we reduce our active personnel by half a million and a similar reduction for reserve personnel .

The Indian Army accounts for more than half of the total defense budget of India, with most of the expenditure going to the maintenance of cantonments, salaries and pensions, instead of critical arms and ammunition.

Composition of expenditure of ministry of defence for 2020-21 (in %)

View attachment 70069

Changing composition of the defence budget (2015-16 to 2020-21)

View attachment 70070

Expenditure on salaries of civilian employees (2010-11 to 2020-21) (in Rs crore)

View attachment 70071

Composition of Army Budget (2020-21) (in Rs crore)


HeadAmount allocated% of service budget
Pensions 1,13,25738.1%
Salaries 1,11,29437.5%
Modernisation 26,0698.8%
Maintenance 18,3286.2%
Others 28,0889.5%
Total2,97,035



Composition of Navy Budget (2020-21) (in Rs crore)


HeadAmount allocated% of service budget
Modernisation24,59840%
Salaries13,05921%
Pensions7,23412%
Maintenance6,96011%
Others10,03916%
Total61,890



Composition of Indian Air Force Budget (2020-21) (in Rs Crore)


HeadAmount allocated% of service budget
Modernisation39,03145%
Salaries17,93921%
Pensions13,31315%
Maintenance9,11011%
Others7,1658%
Total86,558

Taking a look at salary and pension bill we are not able to invest in modernization (specifically R&D).
Taking PRC as an example I think we should start reducing personnel count from Army


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So $$$ is your only concern? :crazy: :shock:

Did you forget how big India is and the border complexities?

Do you know defense expenditure is hardly 2.5% of budget?

Do you know that significant allocated budget goes unused?

Do you know the % of military budget and standing Army as compared to strong countries?

Also most important, do you know how big threats do we have? 2 front war is a small thing since there are more vultures ready to pounce upon India at the moment Army is reduced. Numbers do count and we have enough manpower.

These things are discussed so many times already but again such threads comes up. Instead of increasing our economy and corresponding increase in military budget($5T economy as sought after) here we have some people looking to trim down the forces due to $$$. :dude:
 

A chauhan

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Once we achieve proper AI and smart weapons then we can think about it, till then it would be foolish to reduce men numbers.
 

Brood Father

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I have slightly different take on reducing army numbers and that would be cutting cost of pensions
I would suggest to reduce the standing main army to around 5L(full fighting force) and make army training compulsory for atleast 3 years for all so you would always have numbers but you reduce pensioners massively..
 

silentlurker

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I have slightly different take on reducing army numbers and that would be cutting cost of pensions
I would suggest to reduce the standing main army to around 5L(full fighting force) and make army training compulsory for atleast 3 years for all so you would always have numbers but you reduce pensioners massively..
This is a great way to have lots of poorly trained soldiers who have absolutely zero morale.
 

Dark Sorrow

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Crossposting


Army looks to reduce troops by 2 lakh, deployment in Kashmir could be rejigged

The Army, which faces a shortage of about 1.35 lakh personnel, is aiming to reduce its strength from 12.8 lakh to around 10.8 lakh.

New Delhi: The Army is looking to reduce its strength by nearly two lakh over a period of the next two years which could also see a rejig of the Rashtriya Rifles, the anti-terror units in Jammu and Kashmir, apart from some static units, ThePrint has learnt.


Sources in the defence and security establishment said that the Army wanted to bring down its strength from 12.8 lakh strong to around 10.8 lakh.

Asked if a timeline had been drawn, sources said that rationalisation of troop strength was an ongoing process and multiple aspects are being looked into.


The sources explained that due to no recruitment in the last two years, the Army is already facing a shortage of about 1.35 lakh personnel.


Even though the Agnipath scheme has been rolled out, recruitment for this year is only for around 35,000 to 40,000 personnel.

“On an average, around 60,000 personnel retire every year from the Army. The Agnipath scheme would only fill in a part of the shortfall and this is by design,” a source explained.


Sources said that once the recruitment process was completed, allotment to various arms like Infantry, Armoured, EME (Corps of Electronics and Mechanical Engineers) would be based on the rationalisation procedure.

For instance, repair and maintenance work at the Base Depot would be outsourced to the company from which the vehicle is bought.


The deputation to organisations like the National Cadets Corps (NCC) was also being cut significantly, sources said.


Another area which would see reduction in deputation is going to be the Regimental Headquarters.


“The idea is to ensure that the teeth-to-tail ratio is maintained in a healthy way,” a second source said.


The first to see a major rearrangement was the Army Headquarters. It saw multiple changes in 2021 which was focused on streamlining processes and also on cutting down the flab.


The Shekatkar Committee, set up by former defence minister Manohar Parrikar, had submitted a report in December 2016 calling for multiple changes to ensure the armed forces become much leaner, cohesive and modern.

Army rejig in Kashmir

Sources said that under the new policy, restructuring in deployment of Rashtriya Rifles (RR) in Jammu and Kashmir was being considered.


While the Union Territory has about 63 RR Battalions, it is unique from other units of the Army. Each of the RR battalion has six companies compared to four of a regular infantry formation, and each Company — comprising 100 to 150 troops — is headed by a Major.


Sources said that one of the thought processes was to reduce two companies in each battalion.


Another was to see whether the actual number of RR battalions could be reduced and whether the Area of Responsibility (AOR) be increased for each without affecting the
counter-terrorism grid.

 

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