the ukraine crysis for noobs

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

There seem to be some confusion in very small section of people about this mess that is going on. This thread is to answer and offer insight into what is this all about.


So many are screaming "ukraine is a sovereign country", "Indians support the invaders. the russians get out of
Ukraine. To "slava ukraini etc.


So how did Ukraine end up with its 1991 borders? Were the process any fair?

Few centuries ago russia acquired most of the territory which became a country of Ukraine in 1991ad.

Essentially what is now central part of Ukraine (including Kiev) were the lands purchased by Russia from Poland in 1686ad.

So that's central Ukraine.What about Eastern/Southern?Well,most of those lands Russia acquired in the Russia/Turkey war in late 1700s (from Ottoman Empire).Lands were mostly underdeveloped, Russia invested a lots of of resources to transform those lands into successful livable places.


In late 1700ad Catherine of Russia and her people founded many cities settlements on the lands acquired as a result of Russia/Turkey war. Those lands are
referred to as the Novorossiya.

Huge resources were invested by then Russian govt into developing Novorossiya ("NewRussia"). Roads hospitals, ports etc. Russian Black Sea Fleet was created and stationed in the city Sevastopol on the Crimean peninsula in 1700ad. It's still there to this day

The lands which are now Ukraine were actually Russian gubernias/governates (except foWestern Ukraine which is in blue). Zoom in on this map courtesy of Washington Post to see which areas Russia acquired and when. check out the map of Russian gubernias.

To be continued.

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

So russia didn't just own these lands. It invested heavily in them.. especially places like Odessa Crimea. And if you look at the 1900ad demographics of Odessa you shall see that it was populated mostly by the Russians and Yiddish speaking Jews. And who built Odessa?That is the russia.

What happened next? 1917ad onwards . First the tsar was removed & then bolsheviks came to
power.1917ad to 1922ad was a Very chaotic time. The former Russian Red army fighting the White
Army and several areas announced their short lived "independence".

By 1922 Soviet communists/bolsheviks created ussr mostly out of former Russian gubernias/governates.. that included Ukranian ssr. There were very many Ukrainian communists.

So hence the Ukranian ssr was created out of Russian governates .

During the times of the ussr (1922ad to 1991ad) Ukranian ssr was governed out of Moscow
just like the other 14 republics comprising ussr.

Russia invested a ton again- to develop mining, build factories, nuclear power plants, airports, ports, schools, etc.There was a lot of movement of people within ussr.

.Remember that a communist system of economic governing is all about central planning. Best post secondary institutions were in Moscow, Novosibirsk,etc.

Maybe you graduated from school in Kiev and were accepted to mgu in Moscow.

After 1991ad those cities ended up in 3 different countries - Belarus, Russia & Ukraine. But since the 1700ad all 3 cities were largely Russian speaking/Russian governed territories were everything was generally the same. There were commonalities more than the differences.

People watched the same movies ate mostly the same food, their mother tongue was Russian (for centuries), had the same Soviet school system (in Russian), Soviet sports, government offices/organizations were the same. One nation/one people until 1991ad then Gorbachev launched perestroika in the ussr after the mid
1980 ad and it was poorly planned and executed.

It lead to even more corruption and political & economic instability. On Dec. 8, 1991ad three men met in a forest & dismantled ussr. The chernobyl disaster had a major role to play in this event.

What's interesting is that the majority of the residents of the ussr wanted the union to
remain.

People don't remember the 1991 ussr referendum the same way they don't remember the multiple Crimea referenda, e.g. the 1994 referendum for greater autonomy and dual citizenship with Russia.

To be continued.

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

So Think about it.. How do you take a huge territory which was one country for centuries and
split it up into dozen more new countries.What will happen to all the Russian interests in the new
countries?What about the Russian people living in those new countries?

So how did Ukraine end up with its 1991 borders? The
entire Ukranian ssr which was created out of Russian governets by the bolsheviks
became a new country of Ukraine. It was the yeltsin who played into american sub national diplomacy as sell out.

Yeltsin even allowed Ukraine to grab Russian Crimea! Although the peninsula was
illegally transferred from Russian sfsr to Ukrainian ssr by the communist leader
Khrushchev without any referendum

Let's look at the border between Rus/Ukr.From 1700ad until 1991people living in the
green dots and pink were living in the same country..but after 1991 they started living in 2 different
countries. Then many any in the green dots consider themselves Russians only.

Immediately after 1991ad break up many people in the new country of Ukraine started
predicting a civil war. This man below said in 1992 "Why did they (Ukranians) get Russian Odessa,
Crimea,Kharkov oblast?What about the rights of the 12,000,000 Russians born there

YouTube

The man in the video also refers to nationalism, especially Ukrainian ultranationalism. Just go to internet and read about upa atrocities",Ukranian Insurgent army, Waffen ss Galician,Bandera, Shukhevych etc

Let's fast forward to 2010ad. Yanukovych becomes Ukraine's President. International observers call the elections fair democratic. Check out which parts of Ukraine voted for Yanukovich (in blue). Basically residents of Russian speaking the place novorossiya.

Things are plugging along until late 2013ad when Yanukovich picked an economic
agreement with Russia over the european union. Here is an unbiased take on what happened in
November 2013ad.

Ukraine: Why Yanukovych Said No to Europe

A setback for the West—though maybe not a disaster.

nationalinterest.org

Yanukovich's decision brought out lots of protestors to central Kiev by Dec. 2013ad. Many
are bussed in from western ukraine , many are sponsored by the american govt which saw an
opportunity to interfere add oil to the fire. Check this out from Dec 12, 2013 ad

YouTube

Just imagine how absurd for a senior american StateDept official
Nuland to be telling a democratically elected President of ukraine how to behave, which
economic agreements to sign. Should a Russian state dept official tell Biden the domestic american policy?
No.

So After that little speech in Dec 2013ad the american state department decided to
facilitate a govt coup in Kiev!

Check out this leaked conversation from Jan 2014ad about 1 month before Yanukovich was almost assassinated and had to flee.



Check out this segment from DemocracyNow posted on YouTube on Feb. 20, 2014 ad as the Maidan coup was unfolding live! Fast forward to 2:00 and pay attention to the commentary.

YouTube

Then check this.


This now this proves that Yanukovich and his govt suddenly ousted "replaced" with a candidate
picked by the american State Department official Nuland in Jan 2014ad . Remember her "Yats is the
guy" comment from the leaked tape. "Yats" is Arseniy Yatsenyuk who became a prime minister of ukraine on
Feb27,2014ad.

Now,if you were living in Eastern & Southern Ukraine in early 2014 and you overwhelmingly
voted for Yanukovich in 2010 ad how would you feel if a violent coup took place in Kiev in
Feb2014ad anbd your President was replaced by some puppet picked by american State dept?
You would not like it ofcourse.

To be continued.

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

Yanukovich however was some outstanding President.But he was elected was representing the interests of his electorat of most of whom lived in Eastern/Southern Ukraine and wanted to remain close to Russia do business with Russia, visit family, etc. Maidan coup lead to many people living in Eastern Ukraine in 2014ad to revolt.They did not agree with what took place in Kiev.This lead to the formation of the Donetsk Lugansk
People's republics ("breakaway republics") and to the ongoing 8 years of bloody war with the
regime in Kiev.

You should also listen to this eye opening testimony of a Ukrainian lawyer at the security council meeting on Feb. 17,2022ad . Fast forward to 46:50.Not the most detailed translation but good enough.


People in other parts of Ukraine tried to protest peacefully in 2014 ad but all the protests had to stop after over 48 pro Russia/anti Maidan coup demonstrators were burned alive inside the Trade Union building in Odessa by Ukranian nationalists.


Now a brief look who benefited from the coup in Kiev in 2014. Check out our "favorite american Democrats" aka . Biden, then Secretary of State Kerry, Clintonfoundation (recall that Hillary was expected to win american Presidency in 2016ad).

This thread documents most of this ukrainian civil war coverage.



It is clear that federalism and sub national diplomacy go hand in hand.


Thread concluded. @ezsasa @hit&run @Indx TechStyle