The Toxic side of China

mattster

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I am sure that if you talk to the Chinese, they will tell you that they had no choice, but to sacrifice the environment in the short-term for their break-neck rapid crazy growth.

Having lived with Chinese, I understand their mentality - the Chinese are always willing to make huge sacrifices for what they want.

Their central planner's strategy is probably to raise the standard of living for the vast majority of the population first, before they start tackling their polluted environment in a big way.

Basically they have 2 choices - lower the crazy 8-10% per annum growth rate to a sustainable 5-6% and save the environment, or just bulldoze ahead at 10% growth rate, and pay the piper later.

Once they accomplish the goal of becoming a fully developed country, then they will spend billions and billions trying to clean up the mess, and replacing old factories, etc.

The gamble here is that they will be able to recover the environment before it is too far gone.

Its a huge gamble, and time will tell if it works, and what the costs were !
 

Emperor

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The economic growth in China is coming at the cost of its citizens.The boom will is just another damped oscillation.
If anyone takes a look at the region of development,almost all the development centres were cornered along their coastal region.
And the rivers that originate in the north and north-west were getting polluted when they enter the east and southern regions.As a result both the underground and lake/sea supplies being polluted were in the coastal region.In the long run, these rivers and under ground channels will pollute the south-china sea whereby leaving a large number of marine life dead.
If one takes the notes of those geologists and climate activists seriously enough, given the same pace of pollution,Chinese coastal people will find it hard to breath and drink in the near future.

This will lead to a serious migration from the developed coastal regions to the undeveloped central and western regions.And mass migrations were never been a good sign to any economy which will only lead to chaos.
People who are simply blushing on looking at the production levels of the Chinese industries need to take a look at the disgusting state of their pollution levels.
Indians should be some how feel great that their economic rise is not costing their citizens unlike chinese.

The Himalayan glaciers will completely melt down in the next 20 years given the pace of increasing temperatures,thanks to the developed countries for being the root cause of global warming.And the toll will take on India once these glaciers melt down leaving a significant part of north and north-east india without a trace of water.
And no need to mention that Pakistan will become a complete barren land with retreat of glaciers.

Who can be accused for this whole mess?

The first target will be Maldives.Sooner than later , they need to kiss goodbye their homeland.
Next in S-Asia will be B`Desh.With already loosing a Km every year and populations migrating to the north and central regions while increasing the population densities at the core regions will lead to chaos again.
Where will these 170 million go? Obviously their destiny is in India.India will see mass unaccounted immigrants.
Bottom line will be?
Unless India take its own precautions and enforce the border laws,it will be another disaster in the making.
 

mattster

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There is no question that countries close to China in the South China Sea like Vietnam, Laos, Japan, and Taiwan are going to pay a huge price for China's pollution.

I am almost sure that if the Chinese face serious water shortage problems; then they will divert huge rivers from the Himalayan glaciers on the Chinese side. they have already started.
 

Jam

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They can start, but cant complete even 1% of diversion.
Everybody is nuclear now a days.
 

ppgj

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was reading an article on china recently which said, china will have to spend 1/2 its GDP on cleaning up the mess it has created for the so called growth.
is growth bigger than the health of its citizens?
is growth good even if it kills its own citizens?
our chinese members here are just as blind as their masters.
 

ppgj

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Gas ignition kills 12 in north China coal mine

Xinhua TAIYUAN, December 28, 2009

Police have detained five coal mine executives after 12 people died when a gas pocket ignited in a coal mine in north China’s Shanxi Province, authorities said on Monday.

The accident occurred at 11:30 p.m. Sunday when 16 miners were working in a shaft in the Donggou Colliery Co., Ltd. in Jiexiu City, said a spokesman with the Shanxi Provincial Work Safety Administration.

The police did not reveal the identities of the detainees.

The mine was expanding its annual production capacity from the authorized 30 tonnes. The workers violated a safety rule that prohibited the demolition of a wall between the shaft and a disused area of the mine where the gas was accumulated in high density, the spokesman said.

The four survivors were under observation in hospital. Doctors said they were stable. The Jiexiu city government has launched safety inspections to prevent more accidents.

The Hindu : News / International : Gas ignition kills 12 in north China coal mine
 

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China's famed Pearl River under denim threat

Guangzhou, China (CNN) -- On the banks of the Pearl River, vendors set up shop daily at the Luwei village market. Mr. Liu wanders through the stalls at dusk, selecting vegetables and fish from the local fishmonger for dinner. As the sun sets on the murky river, he marvels at the disturbing transformation of the waterway he calls home.

"The water has turned dark and black," he says.

"People used to swim in it," a cabbage hawker says across the market. "We know it's polluted, but what can we do?"
The Pearl River has sustained Chinese civilization for ages, but over the last few decades, civilization has not been kind to the river. It has become a dumping ground for debris, floating among massive algae blooms and even pig carcasses. Agricultural runoff is one of the river's biggest threats, next to industrial pollution.

The river is the lifeblood of the "world's factory floor," thousands of factories that produce the world's toys, mobile phones, computers, textiles and more.

It is also the blue jean capital of the world.

The township of Xintang, nestled in the northeastern part of the river delta, is an amalgamation of textile, denim and dyeing facilities. Inside, workers snap buttons on jeans so fast you can barely see their hands move.

The Chinese government estimates Xintang produces 200 million pairs of jeans per year including 60 different foreign brands. That is just under half of the 450 million pairs of jeans sold annually in the United States.

But what blue-jean clad consumers everywhere probably don't realize is the process by which denim is made may be poisoning China's water supply.

Video: Pollution in denim industry
"What's exactly in the wastewater, I don't know."

--Wu Xuewei, deputy director, Guangzhou Water Resources Bureau

Satellite images reveal the part of the Pearl River adjacent to Xintang's blue jean factories indeed runs black. The nearby riverbank is piled with trash, including denim scraps.

Like most textiles, denim-making starts with plain white cotton. At the Jinxin Dyeing Plant, bales of it are piled up, then lowered into boiling vats of dye. The cotton emerges steaming, doused in that deep indigo blue color we all know well.

But the process releases tons of wastewater, a cocktail of dye, bleach and detergent. Foamy blue wastewater pools in a channel that winds around Jinxin factory property.

According to the factory boss, Li Zhongquan, most of the water is recycled. "If we didn't pay attention to the environment, the Communist Party would shut us down," Li said.

He later admits some of the wastewater is not recycled, but discharged, and claims he does not know where it goes.

You don't have to look far for a clue. Pipes at the edge of factory property lead directly into the Pearl River.

"The problem with those pipes is that they don't have labeling," said Greenpeace's China country manager, Edward Chan. "You don't know what is coming out from them. Some of it might be domestic discharge from the dormitories, but it could also include industrial waste."

Greenpeace's recent report "Poisoning the Pearl," indicates a fair share of factories may be flagrantly dumping their wastewater into the river.

The organization surveyed the contents of pipes from five different factories, including a textile factory and found that all five contained excessive amounts of heavy metals, organic pollutants and chemicals.

According to Dr. Tony Lu, Chief Medical Officer at Guangzhou's International SOS Clinic, these kind of toxins can be seriously hazardous to human health.

"If there are a lot of heavy metals, they are neurotoxic, carcinogenic, they disrupt the endocrine system," Lu said. "They cause cancer of different organs."

Greenpeace reported it discovered heavy metals like manganese, which can also be associated with brain damage.

But Lu said it was difficult to link industrial pollution to adverse health conditions along the Pearl River. The area has never had a documented outbreak of illness along the lines of "cancer villages" that have been discovered in other parts of China.

However, experts insist water pollution is a major challenge China has to confront -- or risk a massive threat to its water supply in the future.

"The number one problem (China) face(s) is water pollution," said Deborah Seligsohn of the World Resources Institute. "The textile industry is one of China's larger industries and one that uses a lot of water so it's traditionally had a lot of wastewater problems."

The Chinese government acknowledges it has a lot of work to do to clean it up. In February, the government revealed a detailed survey of water pollution indicating that it was twice as bad in 2007 as official figures suggested.

The Guangzhou Water Resources Bureau says it plans to spend $5 billion to improve wastewater treatment ahead of the Asian Games that will be held there this year.
In response to allegations of water pollution among denim producers, deputy director Wu Xuewei said: "If they're violating standards, we'll treat them as criminals and they'll be punished."

He added that the water department intends to implement and enforce a series of regulations, requiring companies to pass wastewater tests and imposing random inspections. He vowed factories will be fined, prosecuted or shut down if they exceed pollution limits.

But, when pressed, he claimed that regulation could be difficult due to the sheer volume of factories in the Pearl River delta.

"Of course we know what's in the pipes, every factory is supposed to register, but there are so many," he said. "What's exactly in the wastewater, I don't know."
Read more stories on China

Environmentalists say the biggest problem is that industrial pollution in a river as big as the Pearl can poison the entire ecosystem and put the people who live in it at risk.
In a fishing village along the Pearl River, a villager wades through a dirty pond and catches fish with his bare hands.

"It is a very good fish," he said. "I eat fish every day."

If he doesn't eat the fish for dinner tonight, he says he will send it to a local market where residents like Mr. Liu might buy it, not knowing whether or not it's contaminated.
Video in Link: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/04/26/china.denim.water.pollution/index.html?hpt=Sbin
 
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amoy

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The Pearl River has sustained Chinese civilization for ages, but over the last few decades, civilization has not been kind to the river
It seems that the North is more serious than the South (like Huai River in the Central). China has been in the old path (like the UK once did) of eco. growth as priority, then (now) environmental recovery.

Probably I'm in the 'better' part of the country. Thus I didn't feel that pain so acutely
 

shotgunner

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Why shame? It is good that you are progressing if somebody has to get through hell so be it it's good. Plain economy huh
I can understand why you disagree, after seeing massive slums over there.

Don't worry, people already chant about overtaking China in all fronts, this for is one of them, no BS
 

shotgunner

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was reading an article on china recently which said, china will have to spend 1/2 its GDP on cleaning up the mess it has created for the so called growth.
is growth bigger than the health of its citizens?
is growth good even if it kills its own citizens?
our chinese members here are just as blind as their masters.
How is malnutrition & infant mortality over there?
How much you guys pay the Russians for that piece-of-crap carrier?
Our indian members here are blinded by their white masters ...
 

ppgj

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shotgunner,

you seem to have taken the post offensively. my intent was one of concern (actually does not matter) wrt the posts in this thread and not to mock or offend. in the past i have debated with nimo and we have agreed on many occasions.

any way my sincere apologies.

How is malnutrition & infant mortality over there?
agree with you. there are issues india needs to tackle.

How much you guys pay the Russians for that piece-of-crap carrier?
don't know what is your point.

Our indian members here are blinded by their white masters ...
you are entitled to your view.
 

amoy

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It's not a bad thing to see Indian members posting of the 'dark' or 'toxic' side of China that make us sober about the price being paid for the unsustainable economic growth. Of course China has many problems. No one denies that. Besides China is so vast and varying from place to place that it's just natural we may not be fully aware of things going on all over the country.

My city is a so-called garden on the coastline, and my province has a high covering of forestry, only second to Taiwan in China. But that's only a corner of China anyway. That's why we need to open our mind.

Sometimes Indians perhaps magnify China's problems (deliberately). That's fine. Meanwhile of course it's far better if Indians can be constructive by shedding light on how India is being environmentally friendly while improving livelihood of her people. All in all both poisonous foods and malnutrition kill human beings!
 
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Daredevil

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It's not a bad thing to see Indian members posting of the 'dark' or 'toxic' side of China that make us sober about the price being paid for the unsustainable economic growth. Of course China has many problems. No one denies that. Besides China is so vast and varying from place to place that it's just natural we may not be fully aware of things going on all over the country.

My city is a so-called garden on the coastline, and my province has a high covering of forestry, only second to Taiwan in China. But that's only a corner of China anyway. That's why we need to open our mind.

Sometimes Indians perhaps magnify China's problems (deliberately). That's fine. Meanwhile of course it's far better if Indians can be constructive by shedding light on how India is being environmentally friendly while improving livelihood of her people. All in all both poisonous foods and malnutrition kill human beings!
India has a lot to learn from China. India should learn how to fast track and implement infrastructure projects from China but at the same time India should not learn how not to respect and protect environment while developing infrastructure as China did. I think India has much more stringent environmental standards established compared to China.

Take the below graph as an example. While China was growing at 10% and India at 8% of GDP, one can see that India's per capita emissions remained the same while that of China's kept increasing. This might be due to increases industrialization in China compared to India but that doesn't mean that China cannot protect environment. China gave precedence to profit over environment and that led to what we see as increased per capita CO2 emissions.

Also keep in mind that the world per capita emissions are decreasing in the last few years including that of US but China's kept increasing. Time for China to pause and think about the environment.



http://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...dim=country:CHN:IND:USA&tdim=true&hl=en&dl=en
 

Daredevil

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Chinese coal-mining city Linfen is world's most polluted

In 2008, the world cast its eyes on Beijing, the sprawling Chinese metropolis that was set to play host to the Summer Olympics.

At VBS.TV, we caught wind of another story that soon had our full attention. As Chinese officials were taking unprecedented and often controversial measures to sanitize the notoriously foul Beijing air, much of the rest of the country was still covered in a thick blanket of noxious smog.

According to a World Bank survey at the time, 16 of the world's 20 most-polluted cities were in China.

At the top of that list is the city of Linfen, a coal-mining and manufacturing hub in the heart of Shanxi Province. Within weeks, we assembled a film crew and went off to the landlocked province in northern China to find out more.

After touching down in Beijing and making a quick visit to the Olympic countdown clock, we set out to visit the single most polluted place on Earth, hoping to place the dubious ranking into a human context.

Despite the Chinese government's promise of a marathon-friendly city, the Beijing air at the time was still plenty oppressive. But nothing could have prepared us for the dystopian scenario we encountered during our week in Linfen and the surrounding area.

See the rest of Toxic Linfen at VBS.TV

Before the trip, I had researched thousands of images of the pollution that plagues Linfen and Shanxi province, but to see it in person is, quite simply, devastating.

The sun sets before it is supposed to, disappearing into a curtain of smog above the true horizon. Residents scavenge the roadside for coal that falls from the seemingly endless cavalcade of coal trucks, gathering it with bare hands. Schoolchildren play against the nonstop backdrop of billowing exhaust. Many of the elderly have trouble speaking between gasps of widespread emphysema.

Residents of Linfen are aware of the growing threat the polluted air and water pose, and some of them have left the city. Most, however, have no choice but to stay.

The infamy of a No. 1 ranking in the news media eventually motivated China to focus more attention on cleaning up Linfen, but unfortunately, the scene of overwhelming pollution is still rampant in many parts of the country.

As easy as it is to criticize China's bold industrial development, our visit was also a clear reminder of the same pattern of manufacturing and consumption that has occurred elsewhere since the dawn of the Industrial Age.

In China, it just happens to be on a much grander scale and on the back of a globalized economy that has rendered China into an assembly line for the world. The most compelling research I came across to this end are recently published studies showing particulate matter from China's factories and mines reaching across the Pacific Ocean to North America's West Coast.

China obviously has some cleaning up to do, and more importantly, some major strategizing to achieve a sustainable economy.

Our futures are inextricably linked. Back in New York City, the coal mines of Shanxi Province feel worlds away, but as oil now gushes ceaselessly into our own backyard, we should pay even more attention to Linfen if we don't want it to be a glimpse into our own future.
 

AkhandBharat

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India has a lot to learn from China. India should learn how to fast track and implement infrastructure projects from China but at the same time India should not learn how not to respect and protect environment while developing infrastructure as China did. I think India has much more stringent environmental standards established compared to China.

Take the below graph as an example. While China was growing at 10% and India at 8% of GDP, one can see that India's per capita emissions remained the same while that of China's kept increasing. This might be due to increases industrialization in China compared to India but that doesn't mean that China cannot protect environment. China gave precedence to profit over environment and that led to what we see as increased per capita CO2 emissions.

Also keep in mind that the world per capita emissions are decreasing in the last few years including that of US but China's kept increasing. Time for China to pause and think about the environment.



http://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...dim=country:CHN:IND:USA&tdim=true&hl=en&dl=en
This is lame. India and China are following different growth models. India in the service sector and China in manufacturing. You cannot compare emission levels of the two countries. And China cannot make itself an attractive destination for cheap manufacturing offshoring unless it cuts costs and implementing stringent emission standards costs a lot of money.
 

amoy

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And China cannot make itself an attractive destination for cheap manufacturing offshoring unless it cuts costs and implementing stringent emission standards costs a lot of money.
There're different phases on the path of development of every country. Just think about what's taught about Britain Industrial Revolution, and what London was called at that time (foggy or smoggy??). Of course it's not justified to pollute first then find ways of remedy later, and damages were often imparable. but that seems what most industrialized countries have gone through 'inevitably' (we certainly all agree in hindsight it 'could have' been avoided).

What about Bhopal gas tragedy xx years ago?

With advancement in technology and people's awareness it's possible nowadays to have alternatives i.e. to have strict emission standards while keeping costs low. For example China used to be relying on coal but nowadays lots of solar, or nuclear power projects and windmills are mushrooming... and 'green' automobile'...

By the way how can 'service industry' absorb the huge workforce released from agriculture (out of 1.4b population) in the course of modernization, in view of the fact that China even has less arable land than India? Without comprehensive manufacturing sectors what can Chinese live on? by import? then where does the huge foreign exchange come from for import?
 
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Daredevil

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This is lame. India and China are following different growth models. India in the service sector and China in manufacturing. You cannot compare emission levels of the two countries. And China cannot make itself an attractive destination for cheap manufacturing offshoring unless it cuts costs and implementing stringent emission standards costs a lot of money.
If you only read what I wrote.
 

luke

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Well,I think China government should assume their responsibilities.Now the System for selecting officials pay too much attention to the economic increase,so many government officals just want to develop economic to enhance the position without considering the problem of environmental pollution.Now many experts proposes to add more content to evaluate the governance level of local officials ,for example, residents happiness index,environmental quality,etc.Now,it seems the center government is trying to do it.
PS:The river around my Village always was black in my Memory.But it become clear when I was in high school because our Mayor want to develop Tourism.So I think if the government really decide to do it,we will be Successful.The key is if we think it's worth.
At last,I hope the post is used to talk about environment Pollution,rather than attacking each other.
 
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Daredevil

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China goes organic after scandal of cooking oil from sewers

Organic food sales have taken off in China after a series of safety scares, including the disclosure that one in 10 meals is cooked using oil dredged from the sewer.:emot161:


Police inspect illegal cooking oil, better known as 'drainage oil', seized during a crackdown in Beijing Photo: AFP/GETTY

The Chinese now consume more than twice as much organic food as health-conscious Japan.

The market is worth an annual 10billion yuan (£1billion) having quadrupled in the past five years. For comparison, the British organic market is worth roughly £2billion. Interest has been promoted by a series of scares including toxic beans, contaminated milk and pork, pesticide-laced dumplings, chemically-tainted chicken, and the growing presence of what is known as "sewage oil".

Night soil collectors typically visit the drains behind restaurants late at night to scoop up dregs of oil, which they filter and resell.

The government, which released the figures, has promised to take action against the practice. But since there are no laws against skimming oil from drains, police have had to release any suspects.

In April, a man was caught in broad daylight collecting oil at a sewer in Zhengzhou, Henan province, which he admitted intending to sell to street food vendors for 300 yuan a barrel.

"There is no way to prevent this oil from returning to the food chain," said Zhen Zhiquan, 32, the manager of a company in Qingdao that turns sewage oil into biofuel.

"Companies like us buy around 10 to 20 per cent of the oil that is dredged from the sewers, but at least 80 per cent is recycled," he said.

Xie Lili, 25, runs an organic store on the internet. In the aftermath of the oil scare, she said she had seen "a huge increase" in demand for organic salts, oils and spices.

"The volume is 10 to 15 times greater. People became quite scared and preferred to cook at home," she added.

In the Shanghai suburb of Nanhui, famous for its peaches, the 4,000-acre Duoli Organic Farm was founded in 2005 and left fallow for three years to allow pesticides to seep out of the soil.

"In Shanghai, because land is scarce and the city has 20"‰million people, farmers are using up to four times the recommended amount of pesticides to boost their yields," said Wang Tao, the head of the farm's quality control department. In 2009, Duoli's sales were 30"‰million yuan. This year, it expects revenues to more than double.

To encourage more sustainable farming, the Shanghai government provided 140"‰ million yuan out of the farm's 200"‰million yuan start-up costs. It sent scientists from local universities to help to develop new farming methods.

Nonetheless, it would take a decade before organic food became mainstream, Mr Wang said.

"It is very expensive, and mostly for rich people," he said. "Also, Chinese people like to judge their food by how it looks, but organic food does not look so good. It is lumpy and has holes in it."
 

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Spill Chill: China's toxic chemicals may hit Russian waters
 
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