The Syrian Crisis

spikey360

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Keep repeating the lies though Joseph ;)
Prejudice, never carries one towards the light of truth. Both your country and his are hurtling towards self-destruction by trying to enforce democracies on Muslim majority states which by itself is a vain effort. Anyone with a bit of common sense knows that there can never be true democracy in Islam.
So in a way, propagating the lies of being an alliance capable of endowing democracy to nations incapable of being democratic is a propaganda in itself. He is no more guilty of that crime than you are. The difference is, he is apparently trying to realise the truth and you are diving deeper into the abyss of ignorance.
 

pack leader

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You can always research more sources. Problem is, the sources that are usually relied on (BBC, NYT, WaPo etc) cannot be relied on in this instance since they spout government propaganda. Syrian, Iranian or other middle-eastern sources will not be regarded as "reliable". So what's left?

There are pictures of both the SAS agents, their equipment, wigs, masks, booby-trapped car etc. I don't believe anti-tank weapons and booby-trapped cars are standard issue for the SAS, besides, they fired and killed at least one policeman who tried to apprehend them.

That's more than enough for me to draw an inference.
why is this Nazi sympathizer even allowed to post here
this is a respectable forum

you can play with yourself and your sick friends in stormfront
:mad:
 

pmaitra

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why is this Nazi sympathizer even allowed to post here
this is a respectable forum

you can play with yourself and your sick friends in stormfront
:mad:
It's an open forum Sir, and while we all condemn the holocaust, we have to afford everyone the right to expression within reasonable limits. I hope you understand.

Thanks you.
 

W.G.Ewald

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It's an open forum Sir, and while we all condemn the holocaust, we have to afford everyone the right to expression within reasonable limits. I hope you understand.

Thank you.
If Known_Unknown is really a German, he would be jailed in his own country. In my opinion, DFI is too lenient in this matter.
 

Armand2REP

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He mostly talks about India so I think it is just to get people stirred up with the Nazi. When you see him talk about exterminating Jews then say something.
 

Known_Unknown

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If Known_Unknown is really a German, he would be jailed in his own country. In my opinion, DFI is too lenient in this matter.
Just to clear the air, I am NOT German NOR a Nazi sympathizer NOR a Jew-hater. I do admire Hitler for his strong leadership, but that's about it. Even the worst criminals in history have facets of their personality that can be admired (that doesn't include Churchill unfortunately, he was a scoundrel through and through :rolleyes:).

Try to not look at the world in black and white, people are far more complicated than that.
 

pmaitra

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If Known_Unknown is really a German, he would be jailed in his own country. In my opinion, DFI is too lenient in this matter.
Sir,

I have to humbly disagree with you.

DFI is not mired in a quagmire of political correctness, which is found wanting in logic or reason by many. For starters, I think Germany's laws banning any public display of the Swastika is discriminatory against Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains. The Swastika did not grow limbs and go around herding the Jews into the Gas-Chambers. I think German laws, at times, tend to bark up the wrong tree.

They are entitled to their are opinion, as much as Indians are.
 

Known_Unknown

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Sir,

I have to humbly disagree with you.

DFI is not mired in a quagmire of political correctness, which are found wanting in logic or reason by many. For starters, I think Germany's laws banning any public display of the Swastika is discriminatory against Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains. The Swastika did not grow limbs and go around herding the Jews into the Gas-Chambers. I think German laws, at times, tend to bark up the wrong tree.

They are entitled to their are opinion, as much as Indians are.
Unfortunately the Germans have been thoroughly brainwashed by decades of western and Soviet propaganda, to the extent that they pay to maintain massive monuments dedicated to their defeat in WWII in Berlin to this day.

Soviet War Memorial (Tiergarten) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_War_Memorial_(Schönholzer_Heide)]

Soviet War Memorial (Treptower Park) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's like India paying to maintain grand British monuments dedicated to the defeat and enslavement of India in New Delhi. Ridiculous!
 

asianobserve

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Unfortunately the Germans have been thoroughly brainwashed by decades of western and Soviet propaganda, to the extent that they pay to maintain massive monuments dedicated to their defeat in WWII in Berlin to this day.

Soviet War Memorial (Tiergarten) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_War_Memorial_(Schönholzer_Heide)]

Soviet War Memorial (Treptower Park) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's like India paying to maintain grand British monuments dedicated to the defeat and enslavement of India in New Delhi. Ridiculous!

Germany should be thankful that it was allowed to exist as a country after all the horrors it had inflicted on humanity in WW2, and helped actually by the victors - brainwashed my arse!
 

pmaitra

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Unfortunately the Germans have been thoroughly brainwashed by decades of western and Soviet propaganda, to the extent that they pay to maintain massive monuments dedicated to their defeat in WWII in Berlin to this day.

Soviet War Memorial (Tiergarten) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_War_Memorial_(Schönholzer_Heide)]

Soviet War Memorial (Treptower Park) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's like India paying to maintain grand British monuments dedicated to the defeat and enslavement of India in New Delhi. Ridiculous!

That's the problem. Hypocrisy is the hallmark of human mind. The stigma of the Holocaust did not prevent the US to harness the knowledge of Wernher von Braun, neither did the Armenian Genocide prevent the NATO countries from admitting Turkey into NATO.

Known_Unknown, as a matter of principle, you have every right to express your opinion, and should not feel obligated to offer any kind of apologies to anyone for expressing what you believe to be true to your heart. I am saying this just as an individual. :thumb:
 

pmaitra

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Germany should be thankful that it was allowed to exist as a country after all the horrors it had inflicted on humanity in WW2, and helped actually by the victors - brainwashed my arse!
If we started counting all the crimes against humanity, no single country should be allowed to exist.
 

Known_Unknown

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Germany should be thankful that it was allowed to exist as a country after all the horrors it had inflicted on humanity in WW2, and helped actually by the victors - brainwashed my arse!
And did the Allies commit fewer atrocities? The targeted bombing campaign against German civilians by US and British forces, the genocide of Japanese civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the mass murder and rapes of civilians by Soviet troops from Poland to China are all well documented. The problem is, the history taught in schools is all one sided propaganda, hence it appears that the Germans were the ones responsible for everything.

Soviet war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Allied war crimes during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In fact, Hitler made so many peace offers to the UK both before and after the war with Poland, and he was turned down every time. Churchill wanted the war, and he was willing to go to any extent to ensure it continued.

World War 1

"Should Germany merchandise (do business) again in the next 50 years we have led this war (WW1) in vain."
- Winston Churchill in The Times (1919)


World War 2

"We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not." - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

"Germany becomes too powerful. We have to crush it." - Winston Churchill (November 1936 speaking to US - General Robert E. Wood)


"This war is an English war and its goal is the destruction of Germany."
- Winston Churchill (- Autumn 1939 broadcast)


"The war wasn't only about abolishing fascism, but to conquer sales markets. We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without doing one shot, but we didn't want to."
- Winston Churchill to Truman (Fultun, USA March 1946)

"Germany's unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an independent exchange system from which the world-finance couldn't profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig."
-Winston Churchill (The Second World War - Bern, 1960)
 

Razor

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Germany should be thankful that it was allowed to exist as a country after all the horrors it had inflicted on humanity in WW2, and helped actually by the victors - brainwashed my arse!
Do you mean Germany or the people at the upper echelon's of the Nazi party, cause if you mean Germany and the Germanic people, then your level of evil matches that of the Nazi party, and it also makes you a hypocrite.

Also, I ll tell you who the other hypocrites were: the allied nations, who did not have any qualms in promptly hiring the Nazi scientists and intelligence officers to fight a supposed war against the USSR, which was just recovering from heavy losses in WWII, and thus beginning an arms race and the Cold War.
 

Razor

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West is using 'blackmail' in new draft of UN resolution on Syria - Lavrov

Western governments are trying to blackmail Russia into supporting their interpretation of the Syrian resolution, said Russia's Foreign Minister. They have threatened to end the UN observer mission if an agreement is not reached.

"If our western partners do not recognize the fact that if they block our resolution to the conflict then the UN observer mission will have to withdraw from Syria, it will be regrettable indeed," said Minister Lavrov.

He added that Russia gives its full support to Kofi Annan's peace plan, but some western powers have distorted the document's meaning to push for the removal of President Bashar Assad. The resolution reached in New York does in no way stipulate the ouster of Assad, said Lavrov.

The head of the Russian Foreign Office said that some Western countries twisted the wording of the Geneva agreement to open the door to sanctions against Syria. "Either our international partners were dishonest in Geneva, or they are just incapable of coming to a mutual agreement."

"Blaming China and Russia for the prolongation of the Syrian conflict, not to mention that 'they will pay for it' completely oversteps the mark,"stressed Lavrov, citing Hillary Clinton's speech at a Friend's of Syria meeting in Paris on July 6.

Russia has been accused of bias towards President Assad's regime after blocking previous Security Council resolutions on the basis they were unbalanced. Lavrov emphasized that Moscow does not take sides in the conflict and its only interest is to bring an end to the bloodshed.

Referencing the consistent refusal of Syrian opposition to open negotiations with Damascus, Lavrov said that those nations who have influence over the opposition should pressure for a single representative to be assigned in order to open political dialogue.

"Trying to persuade Assad to leave office is unrealistic. Assad will not step down because he has the support of the majority of the Syrian people,"stressed Lavrov. He leveled criticism at Western nations for refusing diplomatic negotiations with President Assad.

"Some of our Western partners called for the resolution to stipulate an economic and communications block be imposed on the Syrian government," Lavrov said. This was not stipulated in the Geneva agreement and would quicken Syria's descent into civil war, added.

Russia has urged its Western partners to get behind Kofi Annan's plan to end the Syrian conflict as it is the only way to halt the violence.
Source
 

pmaitra

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Thanks Razor buddy! Finally, we are back on track. I am also partially guilty. :)
 

ejazr

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Well the Syrian crisis does sound very much like a newer version of Operation AJAX which led to the CIA supported coup in Iran in 1953. The plan comprised propaganda, demonstrations, and bribery, and "false flag" operations, dissident military leaders, and paid protestors agains the democratically elected President Mosaddeq.

I am not saying Assad is clean or elected like Mosaddeq was, but with the Turksih jet fiasco and reports of British and US intelligence agents and arms movements, we are moving in that territory. To keep Syria in turmoil if nothing else. Just like Iran was, in the 1950s

Electronic Briefing Book: The Secret CIA History of the Iran Coup
1953 Iranian coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Razor

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Well the Syrian crisis does sound very much like a newer version of Operation AJAX which led to the CIA supported coup in Iran in 1953. The plan comprised propaganda, demonstrations, and bribery, and "false flag" operations, dissident military leaders, and paid protestors agains the democratically elected President Mosaddeq.

I am not saying Assad is clean or elected like Mosaddeq was, but with the Turksih jet fiasco and reports of British and US intelligence agents and arms movements, we are moving in that territory. To keep Syria in turmoil if nothing else. Just like Iran was, in the 1950s

Electronic Briefing Book: The Secret CIA History of the Iran Coup
1953 Iranian coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Operation AJAX is not the only one, there are dozens maybe scores of such CIA sponsored regime changes. The thing is, the CIA has very less accountability and lots of money, which allows them to do the activities in bold above.
Covert United States foreign regime change actions
 

Razor

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West inviting civil war in Syria - Lavrov

Announcing that it is not taking sides in the Syrian crisis, Russia is calling for an immediate ceasefire in order to let the Annan Plan bring about the necessary conditions for lasting peace.

Dismissing Western criticism of Russia's adherence to the Annan Plan, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov reiterated Moscow's call for both sides in the 16-month conflict to lay down their arms and enter into peace talks.

"In order to halt the violence, both sides in the conflict must be forced simultaneously to cease hostilities, synchronize withdrawal of heavy weaponry from cities and place all armed people under the UN mission's control," Lavrov told a press conference on Monday.

Russia's staunch defense of the Annan Plan was given a boost as Kofi Annan, UN-Arab League Special Envoy to Syria, began a two-day visit to the Russian capital. During the talks, Moscow will also be negotiating vigorously for an extension of the UN Supervision Mission in Syria.

Lavrov said Annan's visit underscores Russia's dedication to enforcing "the six-point peace plan, which involves a political diplomatic settlement of the Syrian conflict."

Annan will meet with President Putin on Tuesday, the Russian minister added.

Meanwhile, Lavrov did not miss an opportunity to address Russia's detractors – specifically the United States – which, he said, seeks to "blame" Russia and China for the ongoing hostilities in Syria.

"It is not right to blame the situation [in Syria] on Russia and China, to say nothing about threats like 'they are going to pay for this'," he said.

Earlier this month, Clinton told an international conference: "The only way that will change (Russia and China supporting Syria) is if every nation represented here directly and urgently makes it clear that Russia and China will pay a price.

-Lavrov slammed the remarks as "undiplomatic" and "simply uncivilized."

The Russian minister then criticized Moscow's western partners for provoking a civil war in the country.

"Some of my Western colleagues even proposed that the resolution [the Western draft resolution that mentions Chapter 7 of the UN Charter] declare an economic, financial and communication blockade against the Syrian government," the minister said. "In other words, even talks with [the Syrian government] are ruled out."

"This is a direct invitation to a civil war, not the implementation of the Geneva communique," Lavrov declared.

Stressing that Russia is not supporting the Syrian government in the conflict, Lavrov said Moscow wants all parties to follow the set of internationally-accepted proposals for ending the violence.

"We are not supporting Bashar al-Assad," he said bluntly. "We are supporting what everybody has agreed upon: Kofi Annan's plan, the Security Council resolution and the Geneva communique, and we fully support these documents."

Lavrov added the caveat that the proposals for bringing about the conditions for peace must not be manipulated by outside parties.

"These documents can only be implemented entirely, and not in individual parts that someone might be favoring," the minister said. "We shall accept any decision by the Syrian people as to who will run Syria, as long as it is a decision made by the Syrian people themselves."

What began in March 2011 as pockets of public protests in Syria has swelled into a violent conflict that is pitting an armed opposition against the government of President Bashar al-Assad, who assumed leadership in 2000.

In keeping with Moscow's efforts to engage both sides in the conflict, Lavrov met prominent Syrian opposition activist Michael Kilo in Moscow on July 9; the negotiation process continued two days later when Lavrov held talks with Abdel Basset Sayda, the head of the oppositional Syrian National Council (SNC).

Meanwhile, Lavrov downplayed the defection of some Syrian officials and military personnel, saying such incidences would not affect Russia's attitude to the Syrian settlement.

"Such things [as the defection of government supporters to the opposition] happen," he said. "There is no magic figure when a certain number of defectors would mean a radical change in the situation."

Russia is more concerned about the future of the Syrian people than individual generals diplomats, the minister added.

Lavrov revealed one of the problems hindering the peace process, which involved members of the armed opposition being encouraged "to reject any proposals of ceasefire or truce, to put forward unilateral demands so that the government would disarm unilaterally."

"The [Syrian government] will not do that, everyone understands that perfectly well," he concluded.
Thanks Razor buddy! Finally, we are back on track. I am also partially guilty. :)
:namaste:
 

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