The Spanish Empire - an evaluation

MiG-29SMT

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The aztec empire was conquered by less than 800 Spaniards, it was an empire of several millions people. Spain did not conquer the aztecs by it self, in fact it was the natives who destroyed the Aztec Empire, yes the same natives destroyed and defeated the Aztecs.

Why? simple the aztecs were oppressing and killing other tribes so when cortez, the Spanish captain tells them to help them to defeat the aztecs it means help me and we will get you free.

The Spanish did not conquered everything in 5 years, it took them several decades to conquer Mexico or Peru and Bolivia. In fact the local authorities help them since the Spanish were outnumbered a few thousands against several millions of natives. It is only after 260 years that Spain can hold most of America

Now you do not consider Spain never had the ability to defeat the natives because you think the Spanish sent million of people as army, the reality was Spain only lead the Indians to defeat their oppressors, and christianity was much better than human sacrifice or idolatry for the natives, in fact most people still remain christians after 200 years of independence.
 

Tactical Frog

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you have a lots of misunderstandings about latin America.





The aztec empire was conquered by less than 800 Spaniards, it was an empire of several millions people.



Spain did not conquer the aztecs by it self, in fact it was the natives who destroyed the Aztec Empire, yes the same natives destroyed and defeated the Aztecs.



Why? simple the aztecs were oppressing and killing other tribes so when cortez, the Spanish captain tells them to help them to defeat the aztecs it means help me and we will get you free.



Germany could have defeated the Soviet union by instigating internal revolution in the Soviet Union, by promising freedom to Ukraine or Kazakhstan for example, but he did not do that.







The Spanish did not conquered everything in 5 years, it took them several decades to conquer Mexico or Peru and Bolivia.





In fact the local authorities help them since the Spanish were outnumbered a few thousands against several millions of natives.





It is only after 260 years that Spain can hold most of America, Hitler never kept its empire more than 2 years.



Basically he rushed.





Now you do not consider Spain never had the ability to defeat the natives because you think the Spanish sent million of people as army, the reality was Spain only lead the Indians to defeat their oppressors, and christianity was much better than human sacrifice or idolatry for the natives, in fact most people still remain christians after 200 years of independence.
Just wow. That is a fantastic victory for Spain to read things like that. Entire civilisations in South and Central America wiped out. One of the most beautiful city ever, Tenochtitlan-Mexico, destroyed with all its buildings and temples. Only a handful of codices survived one of the greatest Fahrenheit 451 episode in mankind history. But, all this was justified by the cruelty of Incas and Aztecs !

Human sacrifices are scary yes. Burning witches and heretics is not ?
 

MiG-29SMT

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Just wow. That is a fantastic victory for Spain to read things like that. Entire civilisations in South and Central America wiped out. One of the most beautiful city ever, Tenochtitlan-Mexico, destroyed with all its buildings and temples. Only a handful of codices survived one of the greatest Fahrenheit 451 episode in mankind history. But, all this was justified by the cruelty of Incas and Aztecs !

Human sacrifices are scary yes. Burning witches and heretics is not ?
wiped out do you really know about Latin American History?


For starters ethnically all Spanish possessions in America have natives Americans ranging from close to 30% in countries like Bolivia, Peru Guatemala, to t least 20% like Mexico, with exception of Argentina and Uruguay, all nations have at least 30% of mixed race people, in mexico we have near 70% of mixed race, me my self I have Spanish/native american/Lebanese/Jew origins thus I consider my self a mixed race person.


Spain succeed simply because contrary to Germany all its colonies allowed people to marry between Spanish and other races and ethnicities.


Now Tell me how many executions the Holy inquisition did in New Spain?

I know the number and i can tell you new Spain was as big as Europe and included the western USA, Mexico, central America and Cuba as administrative sections.

well the answer is less than 2 a year so in 300 years less than 550 people were execute.


So please at least read before writing, Since the native were heathen the inquisition never touched them,


Germany was a racist empire so racist that the even blue eye poles or Russians were consider inferior races and it is well know the Russians are much lighter in skin color and hair than Germans, they are more Aryans.


Spain was so powerful that no one dare to try to steal the territories and for 300 years beat all the attempts by the French and English that today the main language of the Americas is Spanish.

Look at the people of Mexico? do they look like the USA where they really killed the native Americans or Quebec what is the amount of natives in Canada?

you are just reading the leyenda Negra made by the British and French who really killed the native americans, Spain was a great empire Germany was a racist hell hole who send really millions to die, the Spanish married blacks and natives nothing similar to Germany in fact we had the Roman right, so all humans were protected
1588846345731.png
 

LurkerBaba

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...
Germany was a racist empire so racist that the even blue eye poles or Russians were consider inferior races and it is well know the russians are much lighter in skin color and hair than Germans, they more Aryans.

..
you are just reading the leyenda Negra made by the British and French who really killed the native americans, Spain was a great empire Germany was a racist hell hole who send really millions to die, the Spanish married blacks and natives nothing similar to Germany in fact we had the Roman right, so all humas were protected
..
So....Germany was super racist because they discriminated against "more aryan" white people. But Spain is a great empire since they were racist only against dark skinned idolators. Got it.
 

MiG-29SMT

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Just wow. That is a fantastic victory for Spain to read things like that. Entire civilisations in South and Central America wiped out. One of the most beautiful city ever, Tenochtitlan-Mexico, destroyed with all its buildings and temples. Only a handful of codices survived one of the greatest Fahrenheit 451 episode in mankind history. But, all this was justified by the cruelty of Incas and Aztecs !

Human sacrifices are scary yes. Burning witches and heretics is not ?
this is Havana cuba it had blacks and mulatos tell me was Hitler going to treat the poles who are blond better than Spanish treated blacks or natives?
and by the Way the main slave owners in America were the British and dutch
1588847074714.png
 

MiG-29SMT

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So....Germany was super racist because they discriminated against "more aryan" white people. But Spain is a great empire since they were racist only against dark skinned idolators. Got it.
you are pretty wrong, Spanish were never racist in fact the conqueror of Mexico, Hernan Cortes had children with native Americans, and we have near 50% of the entire population of Latin America of Mixed Blood. Spanish/African or Native, Spain never was racist, because the Spanish are like the Arabs, a people that conquered for power and religion, not to kill people like Hitler


look at the people of Bogota Colombia, it is multiracial
1588847515436.png
 

Assassin 2.0

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you are pretty wrong, Spanish were never racist in fact the conqueror of Mexico, Hernan Cortes had children with native Americans, and we have near 50% of the entire population of Latin America of Mixed Blood. Spanish/African or Native, Spain never was racist, because the Spanish are like the Arabs, a people that conquered for power and religion, not to kill people like Hitler
That is called womb colonization.
Breeding with others cannot be established as love or as non racism. You can be racist but still breed with local population.
When Portuguese established colonial rule on brazil they pushed ethnic tribal people into sugar manufacturing business meanwhile women were used for breeding hence today ethnic tribal population of Brazil is non existent.
Put men under chains and use women for breeding cannot be called as very moral thing it is done to destroy local population.
 

MiG-29SMT

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That is called womb colonization.
Breeding with others cannot be established as love or as non racism. You can be racist but still breed with local population.
When Portuguese established colonial rule on brazil they pushed ethnic tribal people into sugar manufacturing business meanwhile women were used for breeding hence today ethnic tribal population of Brazil is non existent.
Put men under chains and use women for breeding cannot be called as very moral thing it is done to destroy local population.
No it is not, since I am Spanish and native American I will not considered racist, first because Spain never killed the men, nor killed women, Spain conquered the Americans like the Greeks or Arabs did in the past, it was an Idea, the reason to expand their culture, was a perfect empire, no of course not but it was very successful, and still today I speak Spanish and have Spanish cultural traits, but I am Mexican so no it is not womb colonialism, first because we were not consider colonies but just oversea territories, basically we were part of Spain, we got independent because some fools took the British Idea to divide the empire for their selfish interests, but the Latin American Experience was different to the Asian or African colonies and much similar to the USA.
 

Assassin 2.0

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No it is not, since I am Spanish and native American I will not considered racist, first because Spain never killed the men, nor killed women, Spain conquered the Americans like the Greeks or Arabs did in the past, it was an Idea, the reason to expand their culture, was a perfect empire, no of course not but it was very successful, and still today I speak Spanish and have Spanish cultural traits, but I am Mexican so no it is not womb colonialism, first because we were not consider colonies but just oversea territories, basically we were part of Spain, we got independent because some fools took the British Idea to divide the empire for their selfish interests, but the Latin American Experience was different to the Asian or African colonies and much similar to the USA.
Buddy you can believe anything which you like even Brazilians don't agree with what Portuguese did with there ethnic indigenous population they don't care about that they still speak Portuguese language but consider themselves as Brazilians.
So it's a messed up thing.
But all i know for a fact is reducing numbers of local people in a area and establishing colonial rule on them doesn't happen without a war and sense of authority no one allows foreigners to settle up with ezzz and i take deceive strategy to breed with locals in order to gain ever lasting influence.

So you are Spanish - Mexican so certain type of bias is pretty obvious from you 😀
 

MiG-29SMT

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Buddy you can believe anything which you like even Brazilians don't agree with what Portuguese did with there ethnic indigenous population they don't care about that they still speak Portuguese language but consider themselves as Brazilians.
So it's a messed up thing.
But all i know for a fact is reducing numbers of local people in a area and establishing colonial rule on them doesn't happen without a war and sense of authority no one allows foreigners to settle up with ezzz and i take deceive strategy to breed with locals in order to gain ever lasting influence.

So you are Spanish - Mexican so certain type of bias is pretty obvious from you 😀
no I am Mestizo, I have 3 Spanish great grand fathers, but I have native blood too.

I am probably 70% Spanish/ 5% Lebanese/jew and 30%-35% native american.

I understand the History of Mexico as a continuation of the crusades and al-andalus, basically, Spain was fighting a holy war when they conquered the Americas, thus the queen gave order to Christianize all the peoples thus any christian convert became a citizen, and the natives self governed for nearly 100 years.


So for you to understand under an Indian perspective is as when the Arabs tried to conquer India, with all the bloodshed that war brings the Spanish never quell many revolts, the Empire worked well for 3 centuries, was it perfect, no of course not, there were some problems, some injustices, even some kind of racism, but it never went so far as HItler`s or even the Hypocrite British Empire that really wiped out the natives in the American territories.


Spain was not a perfect empire builder, but it built a civilization, similar to India or China.

I can relate more to the Russian empire since it was a multi racial empire built on an Idea of a single nation.


The British even compared to Hitler were less racist, it was a more humane Empire. Hitler was a killing Machine, Spain was a religious Empire like the Arab Empire.
 
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Assassin 2.0

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I understand the History of Mexico as a continuation of the crusades and al-andalus, basically, Spain was fighting a holy war when they conquered the Americas, thus the queen gave order to Christianize all the peoples thus any christian convert became a
101 of how to destroy local culture population traditions ethnicity. It's kinda impose foreign based ideology and ideology gain influence by bringing them under there religious Bias.
They didn't cared to respect local beliefs.
Even ISIS is fighting a Holy war by this logic they are asking people in middle east in bokom haram to convert or die is it justified.
So for you to understand under an Indian perspective is as when the Arabs tried to conquer India, with all the bloodshed that war brings the Spanish never quell many revolts, the Empire worked well for 3 centuries, was it perfect, no of course not, there were some problems, some injustices, even some kind of racism, but it never went so far as HItler`s or even the Hypocrite British Empire that really wiped out the natives in the American territories.
Arabs and mughal sultanat never harmed those who accepted the islam. ruler Timur's attack on India was marked by systematic slaughter and other atrocities on a massive scale which were inflicted mainly on the subcontinent's Hindu population.[42] His army looted Delhi, sparing only the Muslim neighbourhoods of the city. The Hindu population was massacred or enslaved.[43] One hundred thousand Hindu prisoners were killed by his army before he attacked Delhi for fear of rebellion and many more were killed afterwards.
But they never succeeded because of rebellion.
Even arungzeb many times ordered to kill all Hindus in north india. But was Countered by different people everytime.

If Hindus would have had simply accepted the Islam and destroyed its older culture then today i wouldn't be having a debate with you. I would have been calling arab rule as a religious war and a justified one.
The British even compared to Hitler were less racist, it was a more humane Empire. Hitler was a killing Machine, Spain was a religious Empire like the Arab Empire.
Depends on the way you see things. Everyone have their fair share of human right abuse and racism in history. Hitler can be only called as worst killing machine if you think that European life is more expensive than Asian African life 🤔.
 

asianobserve

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this is Havana cuba it had blacks and mulatos tell me was Hitler going to treat the poles who are blond better than Spanish treated blacks or natives?
and by the Way the main slave owners in America were the British and dutch
View attachment 47289

The Spanish were simply following Worldwide trend of race views. They were no different from almost all countries in the same age. And even during the times that the World were mostly racist (yes, even among Asian regions, countries or kingdoms there were internal racism, mostly directed against darker skinned groups) the Spaniards did not kill 4-6 million people in 5 years just because those people were of different race or religion. The Spanish's preferred route at the height of their empire was religious assimilation (not social assimilation though). We know that since we were a former Spanish colony.

In any case, in the 1940s while racism was still in vogue, the level of violence or barbarity on racial basis has gone down dramatically by thos time than say a 100 or even 50 years earlier. In fact by this time slavery has long been abolished. So this makes Hitler's and German NAZIs racial barbarity even more evil and perplexing.
 

asianobserve

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101 of how to destroy local culture population traditions ethnicity. It's kinda impose foreign based ideology and ideology gain influence by bringing them under there religious Bias.
They didn't cared to respect local beliefs.
Even ISIS is fighting a Holy war by this logic they are asking people in middle east in bokom haram to convert or die is it justified.

Arabs and mughal sultanat never harmed those who accepted the islam. ruler Timur's attack on India was marked by systematic slaughter and other atrocities on a massive scale which were inflicted mainly on the subcontinent's Hindu population.[42] His army looted Delhi, sparing only the Muslim neighbourhoods of the city. The Hindu population was massacred or enslaved.[43] One hundred thousand Hindu prisoners were killed by his army before he attacked Delhi for fear of rebellion and many more were killed afterwards.
But they never succeeded because of rebellion.
Even arungzeb many times ordered to kill all Hindus in north india. But was Countered by different people everytime.

If Hindus would have had simply accepted the Islam and destroyed its older culture then today i wouldn't be having a debate with you. I would have been calling arab rule as a religious war and a justified one.

Depends on the way you see things. Everyone have their fair share of human right abuse and racism in history. Hitler can be only called as worst killing machine if you think that European life is more expensive than Asian African life 🤔.
You have to understand the mindset of the Spaniards, they thought that it was their duty to God to convert people to Catholicsm and at the same time they were giving a great favor to the natives that they colonized by converting their religion to Catholicsm. But the Spaniards at least gave the natives an opportunity to be assimilated religiously. Their preferred route was through explanations (a combination of promise higher social worth and heaven if they convert plus eternal damnation if they don't). And as I said above the Spanish normally did not kill natives on ethnic or religious grounds.
 

MiG-29SMT

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101 of how to destroy local culture population traditions ethnicity. It's kinda impose foreign based ideology and ideology gain influence by bringing them under there religious Bias.
They didn't cared to respect local beliefs.
Even ISIS is fighting a Holy war by this logic they are asking people in middle east in bokom haram to convert or die is it justified.

Arabs and mughal sultanat never harmed those who accepted the islam. ruler Timur's attack on India was marked by systematic slaughter and other atrocities on a massive scale which were inflicted mainly on the subcontinent's Hindu population.[42] His army looted Delhi, sparing only the Muslim neighbourhoods of the city. The Hindu population was massacred or enslaved.[43] One hundred thousand Hindu prisoners were killed by his army before he attacked Delhi for fear of rebellion and many more were killed afterwards.
But they never succeeded because of rebellion.
Even arungzeb many times ordered to kill all Hindus in north india. But was Countered by different people everytime.

If Hindus would have had simply accepted the Islam and destroyed its older culture then today i wouldn't be having a debate with you. I would have been calling arab rule as a religious war and a justified one.

Depends on the way you see things. Everyone have their fair share of human right abuse and racism in history. Hitler can be only called as worst killing machine if you think that European life is more expensive than Asian African life 🤔.
Islam is not Christianity they are from the same origin but not the same, plus being a different culture does not mean each culture is right. the aztecs did wars just to capture people and eat them pretty much were like Hitler, but when Cortes came put an end to that barbaric mentality, no more human sacrifice, no more cannibalism, no more wars to make slaves, you do not know what culture they were?, I am happy Spain came to Mexico, my blood also is from Spain, you like it or not some cultures are more civilized, some are more barbaric, the Aztecs were a savaged culture, their political system was cruel, Spain put an end to that like the allies put an end to that when they destroyed Hitler, the Nazis were a culture, a culture of death, Spain with all its defects was a universal culture by becoming Christian you became citizen, and the heathen were not killed by religion in fact the only enslaved natives were those who continue those horrible culture of death and fought Spain, a Christian native was Free, a peaceful native was free, did we win yes we stopped making human sacrifices, we stopped cannibalism and we stopped pictographic languages, we lived in peace no more wars to find victims for human sacrifice.
 

MiG-29SMT

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The Spanish were simply following Worldwide trend of race views. They were no different from almost all countries in the same age. And even during the times that the World were mostly racist (yes, even among Asian regions, countries or kingdoms there were internal racism, mostly directed against darker skinned groups) the Spaniards did not kill 4-6 million people in 5 years just because those people were of different race or religion. The Spanish's preferred route at the height of their empire was religious assimilation (not social assimilation though). We know that since we were a former Spanish colony.

In any case, in the 1940s while racism was still in vogue, the level of violence or barbarity on racial basis has gone down dramatically by thos time than say a 100 or even 50 years earlier. In fact by this time slavery has long been abolished. So this makes Hitler's and German NAZIs racial barbarity even more evil and perplexing.
the Philippines were not like America, most Spanish immigration went to America, we still speak Spanish and we have more connection to Spain in culture but at least you were converted as we were, and Mexico city did administer the Philippines during the colony, we had connection as countries, Spain was a great empire, not perfect but it brought a simple language and an universal religion.
 

asianobserve

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the Philippines were not like America, most Spanish immigration went to America, we still speak Spanish and we have more connection to Spain in culture but at least you were converted as we were, and Mexico city did administer the Philippines during the colony, we had connection as countries, Spain was a great empire, not perfect but it brought a simple language and an universal religion.

We are linked through Spain. We have tamal (from tamales) that we got from Mexicans through the Manila-Acapulco Galeon Trade. There are also 2 cities that until now speaks bastardized Spanish. Although I wished that the British paid more attention to conquering the Philippines than their half-hearted attempt to occupy Manila between 1762-1764. The Spanish were pious but administrative fools and did not really educate their colonies. The British on the other hand had a better civil service and good education system. In fact, the Americans did more to educate us and organize our civil service in 50 years than the Spaniards in 400 years.

Still we cannot complain. Without Spain there probably be no united Philippines or worse we'd still be Muslims by now (except for small parts of Mindanao that were not Christianized and remained Muslims) .

Btw, my maternal great grandmother is pure Spanish, a Rodriguez by last name. I guess we have mistezo blood (prized in Spanish colonies).
 

MiG-29SMT

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We are linked through Spain. We have tamal (from tamales) that we got from Mexicans through the Manila-Acapulco Galeon Trade. There are also 2 cities that until now speaks bastardized Spanish. Although I wished that the British paid more attention to conquering the Philippines than their half-hearted attempt to occupy Manila between 1762-1764. The Spanish were pious but administrative fools and did not really educate their colonies. The British on the other hand had a better civil service and good education system. In fact, the Americans did more to educate us and organize our civil service in 50 years than the Spaniards in 400 years.

Still we cannot complain. Without Spain there probably be no united Philippines or worse we'd still be Muslims by now (except for small parts of Mindanao that were not Christianized and remained Muslims) .

Btw, my maternal great grandmother is pure Spanish, a Rodriguez by last name. I guess we have mistezo blood (prized in Spanish colonies).
I am grateful to Spain, and proud of my Spanish ancestors, so in no way I would have wanted Mexico to be a British Colony, they were racists hypocrites, I am Glad to be of the Spanish culture.


Spain was a great founder of civilizations
 

asianobserve

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I only recently discovered that the Philippines was one of the very few countries if not the only country to openly accept European Jews before the outbreak of WW2. Our then President Quezon with the help of US' high commissioner Paul McNutt and Jewish-American businessmen based in the Philippines decided to take in Jewish refugees from Europe as early as 1937. The US like most other countries prior to WW2 essentially shut their doors to German Jews fleeing NAZI persecution. But Pres. Quezon agreed to take them in. He actually wanted to accept up to 1 Million Jews for resettlement in Mindanao with a path to citizenship (Mindanao and the Philippines would be a lot better 9ff had this plan pushed through). But the process was soon bogged down when the US State Department got wind of the plan. Through US High Comm. McNautt lobbying however the US Department lobbied to allow 10,000 Jews to the Philippines on a 1,000/year quota basis. Unfortunately, soon after the US State Department approved the process the Japanese Imperial forces already invaded the Philippines. By that time only 1,266 Jews were accepted into the Philippines and the Mindanao resettlement wasn't yet implemented. In any case, the Philippines and in particular Pres. Quezon saved more Jews than Oskar Schindler.

I have always been interested in the European Jews' plight in WW2 but I never knew we played some positive part in their plight. This was not taught in our history classes.


Btw, my grandfather was an Asst. Secretary of Pres. Quezon and then the Commissioner of the Immigration of his postwar successor's successor Pres. Quirino.
 

Tactical Frog

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this is Havana cuba it had blacks and mulatos tell me was Hitler going to treat the poles who are blond better than Spanish treated blacks or natives?
and by the Way the main slave owners in America were the British and dutch
View attachment 47289
I see only Black African slaves’ descendants on this picture. Where are the native Amerindians in Cuba please ?
 

MiG-29SMT

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I see only Black African slaves’ descendants on this picture. Where are the native Amerindians in Cuba please ?
Mixed within the population, while many died, Latin american still have them and even Cuba has indian blood Cuba has close to 50% people of mixed blood including native

here is one

1588924619516.png


 
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