The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will see

[Rage]

The scariest documentary on the post-industrial American economy you will ever see.


Park Avenue- Money, Power and the American Dream

@pmaitra, @Sakal Gharelu Ustad, @panduranghari, @Singh, @thakur_ritesh


Academy Award-winning director, Alex Gibney presents his examination of how the wealth and income gaps between rich and poor Americans has become so stark, particularly since the 1980s, as illustrated by this famous boulevard in New York City. Gibney contends that America's richest citizens have "rigged the game in their favor," and created unprecedented inequality in the United States.

Nowhere, Gibney asserts, is this more evident than on Park Avenue in New York. 740 Park in Manhattan is currently home to the highest concentration of billionaires in the country. Across the river, less than five miles away, Park Avenue runs through the South Bronx, home to the poorest congressional district in the United States.

In Park Avenue: Money, Power and the American Dream, Gibney states that while income disparity has always existed in the U.S., it has accelerated sharply over the last 40 years. As of 2010, the 400 richest Americans controlled more wealth than the bottom 50 percent of the populace — 150 million people. In the film, Gibney explains why he believes upward mobility is increasingly out of reach for the American poor, and will soon be in other capitalist states.

 

[Razor]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

deleted after correction
PS: I'll watch it later.

 

[Rage]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

@civfanatic, @Energon, @W.G.Ewald, @aerokan

 

[Rage]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

The documentary is not scary, in my opinion, because it reveals the extent of the disparity in incomes and wealth that exists in the United States, much of which we already know about. It's scary because it reveals the extent of the lobbying that goes on in the American Congress by the wealthy super-elite: including payouts to over half the bench of both Houses: the Senate and the House of Representatives, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, by the Koch bros.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

The documentary is not scary, in my opinion, because it reveals the extent of the disparity in incomes and wealth that exists in the United States, much of which we already know about. It's scary because it reveals the extent of the lobbying that goes on in the American Congress by the wealthy super-elite: including payouts to over half the bench of both Houses: the Senate and the House of Representatives, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, by the Koch bros.

My grandfather came to America from Germany with no money and a Gymnasium-level education. He ran his own textile company and in 1932 was earning $250000 annually. He didn't lobby anybody, he just worked hard.

My mother's grandfather ran a brickyard in New Jersey and supplied bricks for places like Wall Street, The family owned extensive land in Middlesex County. He didn't lobby anybody. He just made and sold bricks and drank applejack.

Today they would be considered robber barons.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

A very relevant database: The World Top Incomes Database

I will check the facts and the documentary later.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

One word - plutocracy.

I have mixed feelings about the documentary. The parting words were very significant - "As long as our political leaders depend on the rich to win elections and stay in office, they will write laws to protect the castles, and the wealth and power, on the other side of the river, . . ." This also vindicates my dwindling faith in democracy.

What next, Jennifer Government?

 

[Singh]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

An excellent article on the subject. Just quoting the last paragraph

Therefore, if we are to make a new beginning of putting government back in its cage and restoring liberty to the people, we first must stop denying the mess we are in and begin denying governments and their private sector partners in crime the tools of tyranny and the instruments of oppression with which to tyrannize the people: Eliminate standing armies, deny governments all but the bare minimum of regulatory and police power and eliminate all direct taxes.

Why James Madison Was Wrong About A Large Republic - Forbes

==

 

[blank_quest]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

. Govt should act as a "Watch-DOG".DOG seems to be a derogatory word and so does the Govt as it is a necessary evil.Govt should be stripped off of all expansionist tendency as propounded under Neo-liberalism and must act most prominently as a power agent under the nucleus of small sphere of regulatory and security mechanism.
Everyone knows that Capitalism is NOT BAD per se but the dangerous MIX of Capitalism (as Political Affinity and vested interest) and Executive Power generates Crony Practices which distorts the Mobility of Rural/BPL chunk of Society. Socialism ( by means of Welfare State ) is killed when Vested interest overtakes "rational" decision and Kills the economy too in large framework of timeline . This very thing is happening in India too.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

. Govt should act as a "Watch-DOG".DOG seems to be a derogatory word and so does the Govt as it is a necessary evil.Govt should be stripped off of all expansionist tendency as propounded under Neo-liberalism and must act most prominently as a power agent under the nucleus of small sphere of regulatory and security mechanism.
Everyone knows that Capitalism is NOT BAD per se but the dangerous MIX of Capitalism (as Political Affinity and vested interest) and Executive Power generates Crony Practices which distorts the Mobility of Rural/BPL chunk of Society. Socialism ( by means of Welfare State ) is killed when Vested interest overtakes "rational" decision and Kills the economy too in large framework of timeline . This very thing is happening in India too.

I think most watchdogs bark a couple of times and then go back to licking their balls.

 

[Energon]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

A few of things to note before I get into the thick of it:
1. In terms of the general level of national prosperity based on indicators like lifespan, medical care, infrastructure etc. we are still better off today than any time before.
2. The United States has always had poverty and the entire area "north of the river" as featured in the documentary used to look like a war zone until the early 1990s. So even that has improved. In spite of all the hyperbole even the poorest people in the United States do not suffer like their counterparts in the developing world
3. People have been predicting the demise of the country since the day it was formed.

Having said all of that I have no doubt that as a society we are in serious trouble because of a series of screw ups.

Our first mistake has been the violation of our foundational principle which made us prosperous in the first place... the rule of law. The incestuous relationship between big business and Washington is the very definition of a defunct legal system. We experienced one of the greatest financial disasters in history orchestrated by delusional and unscrupulous financiers backed by equally greedy political representatives, yet the number of people who have actually gone to prison since the debacle can be counted on one hand.

One obvious correlation here is the rise of the finance industry and the army of finance executives. I'm not in finance and perhaps that makes me more cynical. Regardless,I have no doubt that the bulk of this entire industry is horsecrap. Since the late 80s the finance sector has undergone an exponential growth. However It is now blatantly clear that most of this growth was fueled by delusions of grandeur. Frankly this image of our post industrial economy riding on the waves of the finance industry is an utter farce. I'm not saying there's no value to certain financial products but people can't keep making imaginary money based on ludicrous financial vehicles and then be surprised when the whole thing blows up.

I think the massive divergence in pay between workers and executives is very telling of our current predicament. The problem is that we spent many years engaging the Soviet Union in rhetoric about the greatness of free market capitalism (even though our real system was that of a very liberal and well balanced social republic) but then at some point we started believing our own bull$hit. We then started mistaking significant achievement with unabashed entitlement and lack of arbitrary achievement with stupidity and laziness. This is exactly why as per our current social values an executive who runs a large business into the ground is considered a far greater asset to the society than a special ed teacher or a nurse working at a county hospital. Trust me, the latter two work far, far harder than any executive even though they expect a fraction of the salary.

If we are to fix our problems we first need to get a reality check and stop lapping up all the rhetoric that politicians now spew like diarrhea. The democrats are now the party of liars ((ala Chuck Schumer) and the republicans have decided to take the delusional blowhard route. It is such an embarrassment to see the likes of Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman being recognized as national political figures. Sarah Palin, a woman who can't tell the hole in the wall from her own ass is a "spokesperson" for a "tax plan" that is as retarded as she is yet she is a public figure. It is also hard to imagine that we give time of the day to a guy like Paul Ryan, whose entire life philosophy and political outlook is based on the ramblings of a bat$hit cray woman.

As a realist I don't think there will be any sort of a solution to the corruption orchestrated by politicians and big business unless there's a well organized and drastic public reaction.

 

[Energon]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

My grandfather came to America from Germany with no money and a Gymnasium-level education. He ran his own textile company and in 1932 was earning $250000 annually. He didn't lobby anybody, he just worked hard.

My mother's grandfather ran a brickyard in New Jersey and supplied bricks for places like Wall Street, The family owned extensive land in Middlesex County. He didn't lobby anybody. He just made and sold bricks and drank applejack.

Today they would be considered robber barons.

If your grandparents had migrated today their chances of replicating this success would be somewhere between zero and nil. To think that your paternal grandfather could ever enter the textile business in present times let alone stay afloat for more than a few hours is laughable. Take a close look at the markets, all commodities are split between a handful of conglomerates and there is no room whatsoever for an independent operator like your grandfather. The same goes for your maternal grandfather. There is no way he could ever dream of competing with the behemoths who control the masonry and quarry industries.

I don't know what you mean by a gymnasium level education, but if that is what your grandfathers had and if it was anything lower than an advanced degree in a marketable field chances are they would both be laying bricks and speaking Spanish by the end of the year. But if it's any consolation your maternal grandfather would have access to copious amounts of applejack (and ipods). But coming to think of the applejack would eventually end up screwing him over because he would have to jump through hoops to get proper medical care to control his impending type II diabetes and getting a dentist to fix those dental caries is out of the question.

Lastly, I highly doubt your grandparents would be considered robber barons in today's world, statistically speaking it is far more likely they would be called moochers.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

If your grandparents had migrated today their chances of replicating this success would be somewhere between zero and nil. To think that your paternal grandfather could ever enter the textile business in present times let alone stay afloat for more than a few hours is laughable. Take a close look at the markets, all commodities are split between a handful of conglomerates and there is no room whatsoever for an independent operator like your grandfather. The same goes for your maternal grandfather. There is no way he could ever dream of competing with the behemoths who control the masonry and quarry industries.

I don't know what you mean by a gymnasium level education, but if that is what your grandfathers had and if it was anything lower than an advanced degree in a marketable field chances are they would both be laying bricks and speaking Spanish by the end of the year. But if it's any consolation your maternal grandfather would have access to copious amounts of applejack (and ipods). But coming to think of the applejack would eventually end up screwing him over because he would have to jump through hoops to get proper medical care to control his impending type II diabetes and getting a dentist to fix those dental caries is out of the question.

Lastly, I highly doubt your grandparents would be considered robber barons in today's world, statistically speaking it is far more likely they would be called moochers.

Different times have different business models. Today, any common guy from basic computer science background can move to US and achieve big success. The world has shifted towards a knowledge based industry and that is where the innovation potential lies.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

Sorry to say but I was not very impressed with the documentary. High on emotions and less on information and analysis.

And I think that some of the quoted statistics were false.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

Sorry to say but I was not very impressed with the documentary. High on emotions and less on information and analysis.

And I think that some of the quoted statistics were false.

Right. It was rhetorical, and therefore, understandably, focused on the "pathos" part of the message, and also, probably meant to disparage the republicans.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

Right. It was rhetorical, and therefore, understandably, focused on the "pathos" part of the message, and also, probably meant to disparage the republicans.

Every country has their own set of problems.

The west badly needs to learn the savings lesson from the east. Overspending can get you out of one recession but not the spiral that it creates.

And Democrats are more like the US version of SP, BSP!

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

May be you have seen this already but I found this one pretty interesting:

@pmaitra, @Rage, @panduranghari, @Singh, @thakur_ritesh @civfanatic, @Energon, @W.G.Ewald, @aerokan

And this is not the scariest one for sure!

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

If your grandparents had migrated today their chances of replicating this success would be somewhere between zero and nil. To think that your paternal grandfather could ever enter the textile business in present times let alone stay afloat for more than a few hours is laughable. Take a close look at the markets, all commodities are split between a handful of conglomerates and there is no room whatsoever for an independent operator like your grandfather. The same goes for your maternal grandfather. There is no way he could ever dream of competing with the behemoths who control the masonry and quarry industries.

I don't know what you mean by a gymnasium level education, but if that is what your grandfathers had and if it was anything lower than an advanced degree in a marketable field chances are they would both be laying bricks and speaking Spanish by the end of the year. But if it's any consolation your maternal grandfather would have access to copious amounts of applejack (and ipods). But coming to think of the applejack would eventually end up screwing him over because he would have to jump through hoops to get proper medical care to control his impending type II diabetes and getting a dentist to fix those dental caries is out of the question.

Lastly, I highly doubt your grandparents would be considered robber barons in today's world, statistically speaking it is far more likely they would be called moochers.

Yeah, well, your view is typical of the malaise of the time and is unsupported by any facts. You predict failure because you yourself are risk-averse. As one American politician referred to people like you: "Pointy-headed professors who can't park their bicycles straight. Your motto is "it can't be done because I don't have the balls to try." And you insult my ancestors by calling them "moochers." You are an ass. They created jobs for scores of workers. What have you done?

The Messiah likes this.

Of course he does. He agrees with you because he also snipes from the sidelines of life and despises humanity.

Gymnasium (school) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A gymnasium (pronounced with a [É¡] in several languages) is a type of school providing advanced secondary education in some parts of Europe and the CIS, comparable to English grammar schools or sixth form colleges and U.S. college preparatory high schools. Historically the German Gymnasium also included in its overall accelerated curriculum post secondary education at college level and the degree awarded substituted for the bachelor's degree (Baccalaureat)[1] previously awarded by a college or university so that universites in Germany exclusively became graduate schools. In the US the German Gymnasium curriculum was used at some rather reputable universities like the University of Michigan as model for their undergraduate college programs.[2] .

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

If your grandparents had migrated today their chances of replicating this success would be somewhere between zero and nil. To think that your paternal grandfather could ever enter the textile business in present times let alone stay afloat for more than a few hours is laughable. Take a close look at the markets, all commodities are split between a handful of conglomerates and there is no room whatsoever for an independent operator like your grandfather. The same goes for your maternal grandfather. There is no way he could ever dream of competing with the behemoths who control the masonry and quarry industries.

I don't know what you mean by a gymnasium level education, but if that is what your grandfathers had and if it was anything lower than an advanced degree in a marketable field chances are they would both be laying bricks and speaking Spanish by the end of the year. But if it's any consolation your maternal grandfather would have access to copious amounts of applejack (and ipods). But coming to think of the applejack would eventually end up screwing him over because he would have to jump through hoops to get proper medical care to control his impending type II diabetes and getting a dentist to fix those dental caries is out of the question.

Lastly, I highly doubt your grandparents would be considered robber barons in today's world, statistically speaking it is far more likely they would be called moochers.

Your position seems to be that the individual can accomplish nothing today, and must be dependent of the government for everything. I assume you voted for Obama.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: The scariest docu on the post-industrial American economy you will

Putin says he will sign anti-US adoptions bill | www.ajc.com

Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday he will sign a controversial bill banning Americans from adopting Russian children, a defiant move against the U.S. that has angered some Russians who argue it victimizes children to make a political point.

The law would block dozens of Russian children expected to be adopted by American families from leaving the country and cut off one of the main international routes for Russian children to leave often dismal orphanages. Russia is the single biggest source of adopted children in the U.S., with more than 60,000 Russian children being taken in by Americans over the past two decades.

Things are so bad in American that Putin doesn't want any Russian orphans to go there.