The Real Reason Russia is Warming Up to Pakistan

[punjab47]

In terms of second point (I can't scroll down post to edit on mobile) a someone pointed out India wants a short high intensity war limited to Kashmir Raaj.

If Pakistan has even 1 2 squads of comparable aircraft that they deploy there, it stops us from taking it fast without fgfa.

Compared to now where it's mig21s vs su30s & mig29ks.

 

[Indibomber]

Article is SOPT on, there is no other reason for US to forge a nuclear alliance with Iran, should Russian warm up to Pakistan. Three routes to Central Asia Iran, Pakistan both far away from US. There needs to be a third route (Short one) and that's from Free Baluchistan. Time to tighten the screw on bakistan and get back POK.

 

[bose]

It is very famous misconception that someone else is pushing Russian towards China.

Most likely its a propaganda, spread by Russian lackeys.

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The Western Europe & Americans even after the fall of USSR were still not prepared to treat Russia as equals and still suspicious of Russia rise in future... Why NATO have to expand to Poland ? The conduct of Americans / Europeans in Georgia and now in Ukraine is dis graceful ...

American / European poaching into the erstwhile Warsaw pact countries just shows their intent of going back to the understanding of not poaching into erstwhile Warsaw pact countries ...

Even India had better relations with Russia and then also they offered PAK-FA project partnership to China first.

Correct me, if I am not wrong.

It is true that India had and still continues to have good relationship with Russia... Russia does not have the resources to continue a project like PAK FA on its own, If I am not wrong India then has no plan to have fifth generation fighters then... It was offered to China first when they refused India pulled into it...

It is to be remembered the way Russians helped India into Nuclear submarine and SU-30 MKI projects to name a few... Can you imagine French allowing Russian missiles into Rafale or American allowing R77 on to their F-16 ?

Till date it is Russia that has come forward with helping India with building joint fighter engines... We have seen how Secna pulled out of Kaveri upgrade ...

 

[hit&run]

In every disease there is a host and a vector/pathogen. Here we are only deliberating on the host, that is why the diagnosis is incomplete.

Russia is warming up to Pakistan because Pakistan is warming up to Russia. Russia is not reaching out to Pakistan but Pakistan is.

Pakistan-Russia relationship is in infancy and Pakistanis knows it very well. Pakistan after losing USA and not much in awe of China as China doesn't doll free money or world class weapons like USA spoiled them with, Pakistani is reaching out to other powers. Russia is the obvious choice for them, and on top of it, Russia in the neighborhood and they know all the roads to reach down.

Pakistan fear its isolation as India is getting stronger. Though no one will substitute luxury like USA, Pakistan will settle down for 'some thing is better than nothing'. Pakistan will try its luck with Russia and keep looking for its weaker moments to fill the gap and offer whatever it can afford. It is good use of diplomatic resources as not only it will yield into a cordial relationship if not strategic partnership from a hostile relationship, but will create doubts in mind of India vis a vis Russia.

Russia on the other hand is watching India growing leaps and bound diversifying its acquaintances and associates; will not mind Pakistan warming up to them. They can't tell Pakistan stop knocking their door and piss-off for sake of India; will offer Pakistan a sit in the living room and serve a cup of tea if not dinner and wine.

India has to think for the best and prepare for the worst. It helps in any and every case.

 

[Yumdoot]

With increasing western pressure from western countries like USA and its lackeys it is pushing Russian more towards China... Russia understands it but there is hardly any other options left for it... It is to be remembered that Russia is not USSR and will need support from either China or any big emerging economic power to sustain itself economically.... Russia does not have anything worthwhile to mention except Oil & military hardware...

Add:
1) top quality arable Land; and
2) top quality human resource; and
3) trade routes that Far East and CAR and Europe need; and
4) Neeeuuuuuukkkkkkkeeeeesssss
5) Nearly zero debt and dependency on foreigners.

I guess enough for 14.6 crore people (contrast that to 12.4 crore for Japan)

You just have to see their economy and society working. They have been sanctioned for over 100 years by now, in one form or the other.

Chinese have only just started. A guy in shanty town with more money does not mean a qualitatively better man. Takes a culture to make a man.

US recently tried to sanction Russian Oil by manipulating true international transactional prices. Result:
1) India and China gained massively. Not the Western Europeans or Americans,
2) Saudis (US allies) decided to encash the once in a lifetime opportunity to kill US shale industry,
3) US enconomy had 500 billion USD in junk bond financing to the Shale industry. So with the shale industry went down the junk bonds,
4) Saudis already had the money to keep financing ISIS. US could not even get Assad out despite that help from Saudis. Ultimately US decided to dump Saudis alongwith their ISIS creations. And you know what it means, for US, in future, to dump the likes of SA & ISIS ,
5) Iran got out of the doghouse with common support, active and passive from the whole of Asia. With no bloody way of ensuring that the Iranians do not have nukes. Iranians are more than capable of making nukes without anybodies help. Not even Russian help is required, much less that of others,
6) The threats to China are only threatening to boomerang on the ^DJI.

Man some year the last one was.

 

[pmaitra]

In every disease there is a host and a vector/pathogen. Here we are only deliberating on the host, that is why the diagnosis is incomplete.

Russia is warming up to Pakistan because Pakistan is warming up to Russia. Russia is not reaching out to Pakistan but Pakistan is.

Pakistan-Russia relationship is in infancy and Pakistanis knows it very well. Pakistan after losing USA and not much in awe of China as China doesn't doll free money or world class weapons like USA spoiled them with, Pakistani is reaching out to other powers. Russia is the obvious choice for them, and on top of it, Russia in the neighborhood and they know all the roads to reach down.

Pakistan fear its isolation as India is getting stronger. Though no one will substitute luxury like USA, Pakistan will settle down for 'some thing is better than nothing'. Pakistan will try its luck with Russia and keep looking for its weaker moments to fill the gap and offer whatever it can afford. It is good use of diplomatic resources as not only it will yield into a cordial relationship if not strategic partnership from a hostile relationship, but will create doubts in mind of India vis a vis Russia.

Russia on the other hand is watching India growing leaps and bound diversifying its acquaintances and associates; will not mind Pakistan warming up to them. They can't tell Pakistan stop knocking their door and piss-off for sake of India; will offer Pakistan a sit in the living room and serve a cup of tea if not dinner and wine.

India has to think for the best and prepare for the worst. It helps in any and every case.

Good and well argued post. I will add one thing though. Just like you correctly said PRC does not give out free money, I am quite convinced that neither will Russia give free money. Russia has, in the past, sold Mil-17 transport helicopters to Pakistan, but they made sure they were paid for in full. Only the US will pay Pakistan to pay for US weapons; while Saudi Arabia will also pay Pakistanis to do all types of dirty work, to get them to build Saudi nukes, or to finance the Pak-Afghan Mujahideen.

 

[Yumdoot]

PNS Ghazi was a muft ka maal. So called loan.

So were the 60 Chinese F-6 jets. Absolutely free.

Even India has been beneficiary of Friendship Prices when we needed it.

Till date nobody has explained how everything in America gets 'stolen' by Chinese without any changes in the procurement, manufacturing and contracting in US.

Money really has very little to do with all this. Unless off course you are a poor country like India.

 

[pmaitra]

Thanks @Yumdoot. I stand corrected. Yes, there are friendship prices at times.

 

[hit&run]

Good and well argued post. I will add one thing though. Just like you correctly said PRC does not give out free money, I am quite convinced that neither will Russia give free money. Russia has, in the past, sold Mil-17 transport helicopters to Pakistan, but they made sure they were paid for in full. Only the US will pay Pakistan to pay for US weapons; while Saudi Arabia will also pay Pakistanis to do all types of dirty work, to get them to build Saudi nukes, or to finance the Pak-Afghan Mujahideen.

Glad you added a very important point with an example; examples make any argument strong.

I was about to add a different example but thought it's not yet reached to its conclusion. The deny that has come from Russia on selling SU-35 to Pakistan may have been vindicating your theory that Russian do not sell their weapons for free or on easy loans; as Pakistan might have asked for the same.

 

[Dark Soul]

There is little doubt that Russia is throwing its lot in with China. How much that is going to impact relations with India remains to be seen. A lot of things need to play out before we can make a definitive inference regarding this situation in my opinion.

Su-35 for Pak or not, for India its the clearest signal yet, if we don't push for indegenization ASAP, we are screwed. From the IAF chief's interview though, they are still fixated on the French bird, even if they have been forced into 120 odd Tejas.

but our spoiled brat IAF only wants Firangee Maal. they don't want to support our own Tejas Fighters. look at our navy and then Airforce. no wonder first one is booming while former is declining.

 

[suny6611]

but our spoiled brat IAF only wants Firangee Maal. they don't want to support our own Tejas Fighters. look at our navy and then Airforce. no wonder first one is booming while former is declining.

tejas is to replace MIG 21............ so all spec. r better than Mig 21.

BUT

IAF has just 1 problem & that is the time taken to reach these spec.

u tell me : if u want to buy a new car then will u buy

a maruti 800 ( old tech = Mig 21 )
or
a tata nano ( just ok tech but very high in maintenance = tejas)
or
jazz ( latest tech+ low maintenance +very good fuel avg. & a show off in style= rafele)

 

[punjab47]

tejas is to replace MIG 21............ so all spec. r better than Mig 21.

BUT

IAF has just 1 problem & that is the time taken to reach these spec.

u tell me : if u want to buy a new car then will u buy

a maruti 800 ( old tech = Mig 21 )
or
a tata nano ( just ok tech but very high in maintenance = tejas)
or
jazz ( latest tech+ low maintenance +very good fuel avg. & a show off in style= rafele)

Rafale cost 5-7x price of Tejas & can't use cheaper Indian missiles.

If you make order for car, but every 2 week keep changing they will kick you out.

Hal only tolerate because it's public firm,

 

[Dark Soul]

tejas is to replace MIG 21............ so all spec. r better than Mig 21.

BUT

IAF has just 1 problem & that is the time taken to reach these spec.

u tell me : if u want to buy a new car then will u buy

a maruti 800 ( old tech = Mig 21 )
or
a tata nano ( just ok tech but very high in maintenance = tejas)
or
jazz ( latest tech+ low maintenance +very good fuel avg. & a show off in style= rafele)

yes i can understand but bro we are not living in 1st world country. we can not afford 126 Rafales. AF should buy atlast 40+ /tejas and 100+ Mk2s.

 

[raja696]

Another terror strike on Indian soil from PAKI sponsors with proofs . We dont need surgical strikes in to POK we should aim at taking back POK . If china says back off , world will have sympathy why we did it. See its terrorism and they are being trained in POK. Hence POK taken back by India to end terrorism. Then negotiate pakis to give up terror and we will talk about demilitarization of POK . If they agree support Baluchistan freedom struggle and try to formant more trouble for pakis. So they dont give up terror, finally own whole Kashmir.... access to central Asia ahhh... I wish I am in RAW lol may be I am kid in dreaming so...

 

[suny6611]

Rafale cost 5-7x price of Tejas & can't use cheaper Indian missiles.

If you make order for car, but every 2 week keep changing they will kick you out.

Hal only tolerate because it's public firm,

r u sure about every 2 week ................ i only know that IAF changed spec. in many many more years.

try to understand :
IAF gives a set of specs in 1992(?)
HAL/ADA etc try to reach them by 2002(?)( 10 years)
the war plane needs have changed world over from 1990s to 2000s
some spec. , demands change .,.
then the 1st flight(IOC) is in after more then 10 years....... again some spec. demands change
being in house IAF can have the liberty to demand the VERY BEST.


the time taken in this project has become the killer.

if IAF was given tejas for IOC in the 1990s then their spec could not change or even if they did then then we all would have seen mark II or III by now.

in house has to be cheaper & all other a/cs will cost 5-7x price. but u tell me what r the options in IAF hands.

they r hunger for the airplanes ...rather as of now starved !!! we have money so 5-7x priced plane will do as of now !!

IF, a BIG IF, HAL( with help of any PVT. player) goes ahead & can deliver say 40 50 tejas per year then other than T 50 IAF will not like to buy any other a/c

u go ahead & give what options they have....

 

[suny6611]

yes i can understand but bro we are not living in 1st world country. we can not afford 126 Rafales. AF should buy atlast 40+ /tejas and 100+ Mk2s.

i agree.

IAF has agreed to pickup 120 tejas mark IA & the order for mark II is already there.

but time & delay is a major problem at HAL dur to :

1) the funds, decisions & order placement is not done at MOD in time.( eg the engines +MMRCA etc)
2) shortage of man power at all HAl divisions.
3)Non-availability of infrastructure, test facilities.....well DID MOD even tried to buy or invest in the same in last 10 12 years.

in fact the previous govt was treating the defense sector as a step child & tried to starve them to death, by doing so the kick backs to them was for sure

 

[Compersion]

If we are not able to get full technology transfer for the GE engines the Russians have no excuse to do anything silly with the Pakis ...

Nixon would have given us the GE engines and much more to see how the Russian would react. But we have history with Russians and that counts in their reaction - It wont be severe.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Two sentences:

1. India is going to destroy CPEC.
2. Russia has no reason to be in the IOR. IOR is India's ocean.

Amen to the second point.

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

yes i can understand but bro we are not living in 1st world country. we can not afford 126 Rafales. AF should buy atlast 40+ /tejas and 100+ Mk2s.

Actually we can. We are buying them MMRCA deal.
The question also arises how effectively can Tejas be used against Chinese.

 

[tejas warrior]

Actually we can. We are buying them MMRCA deal.
The question also arises how effectively can Tejas be used against Chinese.

MMRCA deal have been Cancelled officially. Means we are not buying(read no money) 126.