the prototype of Navy version of J11 roll out?

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
736
终于从东北回来了,闷了说两句。
东北
话说昨天在火车上做了个梦,随便说两句。

为了这个特殊的生日,小宠物孵出来了。但从出生到长大成人是个很漫长的过程。所以,今后的工作更加繁重,但我们都很开心。小宠物外表挺像他远亲大表哥,但由于基因不一样,五脏六腑更加健全健康。尤其是小宠物的腿脚很利索,因为目前妈妈还不能帮他,他要自己挣扎着飞向远方。就他自己来说还是很有志向的。

要过生日了,所以说了几句梦话祝福。

本故事纯属梦话版,什么霸,什么派的就全当看笑话了。且此故事如有雷同,绝不可能
CJDBY is a famous chinese military forum...Just now someone posted a thread and suggests that the prototype of navy version of J11 has rolled out.

here are some translated key points:

1. the prototype of navy version of Chinese indigenious J11 has rolled out.but it will still take long time to finish all tests.

2. the navy version of J11 looks like Su33.but its inner structure and components are different from Su33.

3.Because it is the derivative of J11B, its configure is more advanced than Su33.

4.the aircraft catapult for AC can not be finished for time being.


5. the prototype has good ratio of T/W 。so it can take off /land on AC without the help of aircraft catapult...

:tank:
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
736
What engine is it using?
the thread starter didn't refered to it.

but he said that he had just returned from Manchuria.

As we know, J11 is prouduced and developed by SAC(Shenyang Aircraft Company) and SAC is located in Manchuria...:thank_you2:

all the thread starter posted is just subtle suggestion....maybe he is also afraid to tell the truth too plainly....

nowI tried my best to tranlate the orginal thread ...

"I have just came back from manchuria....and had a sweat dream on the train back home....the followings are what were shown in my dream....

To celebrate the birthdy( Octo 1st is the birday of PRC), a certain baby pet got born. but it will still take long time to bring up the baby pet .

The baby pet looks like his cousin.but because it has different genes, it has more healthy and better organs.

Espeically its feet are much better (than its cousin's),because its mother still can not help it and it has to fly competely by itself...

all the above are all my dreams on train....so if what I posted happen to be as same as the truth,it is a completely concidence and the National Securty Authorities should not invite me to have coffee...
 

SATISH

DFI Technocrat
Ambassador
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,037
Likes
288
Country flag
"I have just came back from manchuria....and have a sweat dream on the train back home....the followings are what were shown in my dream....

To celebrate the birthdy( Octo 1st is the birday of PRC), a certain baby pet got born. but it will still take long time to bring up the baby pet .

The baby pet look like his cousin.but because it has different genes, it has more healthy and better organs.

Espeically its feet are much better (than its cousin's),because its mother still can not help it and it has to fly competely by itself...

all the above are all my dreams on train....so if what I posted happen to be as same as the truth,it is a completely concidence and the National Securty Authorities should not invite me to have coffee...
So what does he mean to say?...the engine is not decided yet and is going to use the same AL 31 used in SU 30 MKK? Or is he trying to tell the AC does not have a catapult? If they are using the same engines then Chinese high command are high on dope as you are yet to operate a naval aircraft. And the engine used by sea based aircraft are totally different compared to the engines used in the land based aircraft. If all this must fructify you must first have a full fledged aircraft carrier to test all the systems. It took MiG 12 years to make MiG 29K even though MiG 29 was a proven airframe.
 

Atul

Founding Member
Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
514
Likes
9
J-11, is it not the re-engineered, SU-27. (i mean built under license from sukhoi)

China will use domestic WS-10A engines instead of the Russian Saturn-Lyulka.
 

SATISH

DFI Technocrat
Ambassador
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,037
Likes
288
Country flag
J-11, is it not the re-engineered, SU-27. (i mean built under license from sukhoi)

China will use domestic WS-10A engines instead of the Russian Saturn-Lyulka.
Without Russian help it will take them more time to increase thrust and optimize the engine for sea conditions. They still dont have experience operating full fledged aircraft carriers nor aircrafts out of ship decks.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
736
So what does he mean to say?...the engine is not decided yet and is going to use the same AL 31 used in SU 30 MKK? Or is he trying to tell the AC does not have a catapult? If they are using the same engines then Chinese high command are high on dope as you are yet to operate a naval aircraft. And the engine used by sea based aircraft are totally different compared to the engines used in the land based aircraft. If all this must fructify you must first have a full fledged aircraft carrier to test all the systems. It took MiG 12 years to make MiG 29K even though MiG 29 was a proven airframe.
as we see, to avoid the attention of CHinese National Scurity Authorities,
the original leak is full of subtle suggestions......

here are my digestions of those subtle suggestions:

1.the prototype of Navy J11 has rolled out but it will still take long time to finish all test.( To celebrate the birthdy( Octo 1st is the birday of PRC), a certain baby pet got born. but it will still take long time to bring up the baby pet .
)

2. it has inner stuctures different from Su33( its cousin),although it looks like Su33.
It should be derivatives of J11B and has better and more advanced configure than Su33
.
(The baby pet look like his cousin.but because it has different genes, it has more healthy and better organs)

3. aircraft catapult is not ready yet...so Navy J11 has to fly by itself for time being,so it has a much better performance of take-off and landing than Su33
(Espeically its feet are much better (than its cousin's),because its mother still can not help it and it has to fly competely by itself)
 

SATISH

DFI Technocrat
Ambassador
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,037
Likes
288
Country flag
as we see, to avoid the attention of CHinese National Scurity Authorities,
the original leak is full of subtle suggestions......

here are my digestions of those subtle suggestions:

1.the prototype of Navy J11 has rolled out but it will still take long time to finish all test.( To celebrate the birthdy( Octo 1st is the birday of PRC), a certain baby pet got born. but it will still take long time to bring up the baby pet .
)

2. it has inner stuctures different from Su33( its cousin),although it looks like Su33.
It should be derivatives of J11B and has better and more advanced configure than Su33
.
(The baby pet look like his cousin.but because it has different genes, it has more healthy and better organs)

3. aircraft catapult is not ready yet...so Navy J11 has to fly by itself for being,so it has a much better performance of take-off and landing than Su33
(Espeically its feet are much better (than its cousin's),because its mother still can not help it and it has to fly competely by itself)
I am still worried about how they are going to test the aircraft without an Aircraft carrier deck that is floating. The land based aircraft will rand only on a flat surface but the landing controls in a Naval aircraft is different as the deck will be moving in both Pitch and the Yaw axis. The Aircraft will land at higher speeds than the aircraft landing on land so as to have enough thrust to take off and re-attempt a landing if it misses the arrestor cables. And where are you people planning to test the carrier version?...Last time I heard the Varyag was converted into a hotel. So you need Russian help for this as they are your only shot and the other aircraft carrier users either wont provide you a testing deck or the people who can provide you(Thailand) dont operate a full fledged STOBAR carrier.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
736
if the leak is true, then Russia will have no chance to market it Su33 to CHina any more.

Frankly speaking, I always think that China's negotication with Russia for "order of SU33" is just a sounding balloon.......
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
736
I am still worried about how they are going to test the aircraft without an Aircraft carrier deck that is floating. The land based aircraft will rand only on a flat surface but the landing controls in a Naval aircraft is different as the deck will be moving in both Pitch and the Yaw axis. The Aircraft will land at higher speeds than the aircraft landing on land so as to have enough thrust to take off and re-attempt a landing if it misses the arrestor cables. And where are you people planning to test the carrier version?...Last time I heard the Varyag was converted into a hotel. So you need Russian help for this as they are your only shot and the other aircraft carrier users either wont provide you a testing deck or the people who can provide you(Thailand) dont operate a full fledged STOBAR carrier.
well ,you seem to have forgot that it was in mini russia(Ukrain) that Su33 was developed .....

the Mini Russia now almost has sold out all that it has to chinese..
 

SATISH

DFI Technocrat
Ambassador
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,037
Likes
288
Country flag
if the leak is true, then Russia will have no chance to market it Su33 to CHina any more.

Frankly speaking, I always think that China's negotication with Russia for "order of SU33" is just a sounding balloon.......
SU 33 and the Flanker series Production might be closed in a few years because Russians are planning a N-PAKFA or a N-LFI. They are even thinking of moving away from the SU 33 to the MiG 29K as it is more capable and a smaller platform. MiG 29K weighs 21 tons and carries all of the Russian AShM arsenal When compared to the 33 ton Su 33
 

SATISH

DFI Technocrat
Ambassador
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,037
Likes
288
Country flag
well ,you seem to have forgot that it was in mini russia(Ukrain) that Su33 was developed .....

the Mini Russia now almost has sold out all that it has to chinese..
Except the engine Design.
 

ppgj

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,029
Likes
165
And the engine used by sea based aircraft are totally different compared to the engines used in the land based aircraft.
satish, i may be wrong but i do doubt that. for ex mig29k and mig 35 use the same engine RD-33MK. my understanding is that only the airframe needs modification in terms of strengthening the fuselage so it can take the stress of landing operations aboard the carrier. another modification is the drooping nose for better visibilty for the same operation. engine will be the same.
 

SATISH

DFI Technocrat
Ambassador
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,037
Likes
288
Country flag
satish, i may be wrong but i do doubt that. for ex mig29k and mig 35 use the same engine RD-33MK. my understanding is that only the airframe needs modification in terms of strengthening the fuselage so it can take the stress of landing operations aboard the carrier. another modification is the drooping nose for better visibilty for the same operation. engine will be the same.
You forgot corrosion resistance and increase in thrust for carrier operations mate. That is why Klimov and the MiG took 10 years to make that 21 ton aircraft to be a success. Read the Specs of the Sea wasp and the ordinary RD 33 engine and you will know the upgrades.That is why the RD 33MK is a better engine and smokeless compared to the earlier versions.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
736
SU 33 and the Flanker series Production might be closed in a few years because Russians are planning a N-PAKFA or a N-LFI. They are even thinking of moving away from the SU 33 to the MiG 29K as it is more capable and a smaller platform. MiG 29K weighs 21 tons and carries all of the Russian AShM arsenal When compared to the 33 ton Su 33
mig29 is a poorer platform with much less upgrade potential than flankers..

Russia's SU33 is outdated ,just because Russia has no money to upgrade its inner organs.


Russia give up su33 and select mig29 ,perhaps because Russian eventually realize now that Chinese won't buy their Su33 and Russia itself can not afford the cost of such a restart of the assembling line of Su33.:goodstuff:
 

SATISH

DFI Technocrat
Ambassador
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,037
Likes
288
Country flag
mig29 is a poorer platform with much less upgrade potential than flankers..

Russia's SU33 is outdated ,just because Russia has no money to upgrade its inner organs.


Russia give up su33 and select mig29 ,perhaps because Russian eventually realize now that Chinese won't buy their Su33 and Russia itself can not afford the cost of such a restart of the assembling line of Su33.:goodstuff:
So what MiG 29K is a stop gap for their Kuznetsov. And what makes you thik the MiG 29K is less efficient than SU 33? It still carries the Zhuk AE radar armed to the teeth with 6 missiles and one AShM Slung underbelly.The carrier can accomodate more aircrafts. Why upgrade when you can have a stop gap measure? And above all MiG 29 can take off with full weapons load and fuel compared to Su 33. Are Americans stupid to operate F 18 and scrap out F 14s?

By the time SU 33s are retired we might see even a N PAKFA on the future Russian carrier.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
736
So what MiG 29K is a stop gap for their Kuznetsov. And what makes you thik the MiG 29K is less efficient than SU 33? It still carries the Zhuk AE radar armed to the teeth with 6 missiles and one AShM Slung underbelly.The carrier can accomodate more aircrafts. Why upgrade when you can have a stop gap measure? And above all MiG 29 can take off with full weapons load and fuel compared to Su 33. Are Americans stupid to operate F 18 and scrap out F 14s?

By the time SU 33s are retired we might see even a N PAKFA on the future Russian carrier.
well, guy, the radar,avionics and other inner organs can be easily upgraded and fixed on any airframe that is big enough..

flankers are much bigger than Mig29. any advanced inner organ like Zhuk AE radar also can easily be fixed on SU33, if enough money is provided.

However, due to the shortcoming of its airframe, Mig29 can not have voyage and hang time as long as flankers,however much its airframe is revised.
besides, the load of Mig29 is also much less than flankers.

BTW, any modification of armframe can cause the change of gravity center and other problems.
the success development of J11B just proves that CHinese now can be free to modify the structure and solve the problems caused by such structure modification.:twizt:
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,280
What is useful payload that these plane can have while take off. What is recoverable payload? If these things are considerably higher then MiG 29K then only it can be proven as superior
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
736
What is useful payload that these plane can have while take off. What is recoverable payload? If these things are considerably higher then MiG 29K then only it can be proven as superior
well,anyhow, SU33 can carry more missles than mig29.
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,280
well,anyhow, SU33 can carry more missles than mig29.
Pure guesswork in operating from carrier a there is a significant reduction in useful payload and with SU 33 having heavier plane requiring more power for take off there should be some significant reduction. If you have some figures please put it here

PS: pl prove that SU 33 is outdated as compared to the J 11 which is till now sought off by China but Russian refused.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top