The End of the Chinese Dream

mylegend

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Please indicated where you get the poll and number of protest.
Are you really dumb enough to drink tap water... even after boiling it? It is so filthy I feel grimy after a shower. I have the guy deliver to my water cooler before I ever drink shyte out of the tap.


There are many dorms without running water. There are 100,000 protests a year over unpaid wages, 46% polled said factories owed them back pay. It is clear they are not paying. You can walk to work somewhere else and not get paid there too. Their life of slave labour sucks and they don't even have clean air to breath or clean water to drink. They spend a months wages just trying to get back home. They have no houkou so they have no rights to services either. It is better to be an Indian farmer with a small plot of land than one of these migrant slaves.
 
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mylegend

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[FONT=arial, 宋体, sans-serif]Check the [/FONT]Gini index in India, and also check GDP per Capital yourself.[FONT=arial, 宋体, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
Actually, yes there is some explanation that could help.

Till now, we were told that all thing nice and beautiful is commonplace in China and some ridiculed that India was a slum with people living below $2 (even on this thread)

How come, we see such horrors in beautiful, resurgent China, where CCP has lived all from poverty where the housing is shocking, filthy and there are beggars and people surviving on less that 31 cents!!

Either these footages of the videos are wrong, or those who have showcased China as a paradise are but the 50 cents army, which too has been forcefully denied by the Chinese posters as being true!

In short, those of us who have not been to China or have had the time to observe China in details feel a bit let down that 50 centers have been giving us a wrong picture of China, if indeed these videos are true!
 

no smoking

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I guess you should learn more about the true color of CCP instead of brain washed by them. Also learn more about how capitalism and free market work
Brainwashed? Maybe or maybe not! If that is my case, then I was brainwashed by my own eyes! I used to work in both State-own-sector and private company (part-time). I did see how corruptive CCP was and I also felt the ugly face of your private businessman by myself. There is one thing can be sure that public interest is never the concern of these private entrepreneur. And it will never be.

As to learning mare about free market? I just wonder how much you know about it? I has been working and living in Australian for 10 years as the accountant in verious companies. How much more you want me to learn? If we really use free market capitalism since 1949, we would have been even worse than today's india ( at least india was far better than China in 1949).
 

mylegend

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What a joke, look at China in 1978...
Brainwashed? Maybe or maybe not! If that is my case, then I was brainwashed by my own eyes! I used to work in both State-own-sector and private company (part-time). I did see how corruptive CCP was and I also felt the ugly face of your private businessman by myself. There is one thing can be sure that public interest is never the concern of these private entrepreneur. And it will never be.

As to learning mare about free market? I just wonder how much you know about it? I has been working and living in Australian for 10 years as the accountant in verious companies. How much more you want me to learn? If we really use free market capitalism since 1949, we would have been even worse than today's india ( at least india was far better than China in 1949).
 

Ray

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This is strange logic.
If you can only take your pride of your country when the disparity is between 3000 and 1000 $( a number you take from air), then there is hardly any country in this list. Is your country in that list? Does it means you cant take pride in what your country has achieved because of that?

Last time I checked none of the typical chinese "boasting" here said anything about everyone is equal in China. Care to find one such post to back your claim? I am pretty sure every chinese posters here are well aware of the huge disparity between poor and rich in China. The ones claiming China is communist is mostly indian posters. Now tell me how you can be communist and yet has one of the largest disparity between poor and rich in the world?:rofl:
Not all of the Chinese posters out here are that naive to say that there is EQUALITY in income in China. That would be so obviously a patent falsehood!

The land of milk and honey agenda is done out here very professionally and is left alluringly suggestive without being explicit.
 

Ray

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[FONT=arial, 宋体, sans-serif]Check the [/FONT]Gini index in India, and also check GDP per Capital yourself.[FONT=arial, 宋体, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
A citizen cannot eat GDP!

A nation's prosperity in no way means all are having a whale of a time!
 

RedDragon

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Anyway, Chinese people's dream will become true, China will become one of the most powerful country in the world. Stand, high, at the east of the World.
 

Ray

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Anyway, Chinese people's dream will become true, China will become one of the most powerful country in the world. Stand, high, at the east of the World.
May Allah, God and Mao go with you and realise your dreams!
 

RedDragon

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But China is not perfect.

Before the reform we 吃大锅饭 emphasize equal, so everybody not matter how much he worked, no matter how smart he is, earn almost the same salary, so we are lazy and not productive.

After the reform we emphasize productive, 让一部分人先富起来,"let part of us become rich first" You work more, you are more smart, you have more relationship, you will earn more. But now it is the time to help the other part people become rich. As a country, we should be common rich.
 

Ray

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I thought it was perfect and that is why Kickok was kicked around by the 50 cents Brigade, just because he was trying to take a different tack!
 

AprilLyrics

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so, what should we chinese do now?

abandon CCP,accept western democracy?change all the institution and copy the way of US?

lets be realism.....

do u chinese guys want a huge change in china now?wont china be in chaos if we do that?

CCP is reforming itself gradually.it is adapting the modern world.as i have said,china is getting better,though there is also problems exposed.

there is no perfect party or government in this world.we should accept those who can make our lives better.or what?stop the improving and turn to a chaos?
 

ice berg

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so, what should we chinese do now?

abandon CCP,accept western democracy?change all the institution and copy the way of US?

lets be realism.....

do u chinese guys want a huge change in china now?wont china be in chaos if we do that?

CCP is reforming itself gradually.it is adapting the modern world.as i have said,china is getting better,though there is also problems exposed.

there is no perfect party or government in this world.we should accept those who can make our lives better.or what?stop the improving and turn to a chaos?
No, but you can start by having a free press and separate the judicial branch from the executive one. This will be a good start. :thumb:
 

mylegend

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No, but you can start by having a free press and separate the judicial branch from the executive one. This will be a good start. :thumb:
I could not agree more, Judicial branch must be separated from executive branch. We have seen so many case that innocents being deemed criminals, and criminals who have power being deemed innocent by the court. LiGang is the perfect case, the first person who get arrested is parent of victims parents. Free press is needed to reveal the corruption of the party. However, this is not going to happen unless 红二代红三代 can abandon their wealth and power. Almost all members of politburo 红二代红三代.
Another idea is to follow path of nationalist party in Taiwan, they initially allow municipal election in 1951, and after 90s, they allow general election.
 

kickok1975

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Today's China is at a critical point. 30 years of open door and economic reform has swiftly changed landscape of China. We made huge progress economically and enjoy more freedom compare to Mao's era. But China and her people also paid a dear price maybe no other country had ever experienced. We are living in one of the most polluted, corruptive and pressure intense country. The gap between rich and poor is so big; the trust between authority and citizen is so few; the social stability is so fragile that tens of thousands riots break up each year.
All signs have point to one obvious fact: Without political reform, China can no longer continue the same path. CCP can learn from KMT in Taiwan to initiative political reform, or stay where they are only to put Party's interest ahead of national interest. From what they did in last few years, there is little sign they are willing to start political reform. They hold even tighter grip on internet, media, and blogs and put more outspoken people into jail. Meantime, the cancer of corruption is never being such worse and their foreign policy is never being such weak. There are already many people compare current CCP to late Qing Dynasty where a regime is bound to fall.
The clock is ticking and patience is running out. It's time for CCP to savage itself.
 
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no smoking

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I thought it was perfect and that is why Kickok was kicked around by the 50 cents Brigade, just because he was trying to take a different tack!
That is a perfect strategy: if you cannot win by arguing the fact, then label your opposite with '50 cents' or '5 US cents'.
 

no smoking

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But China and her people also paid a dear price maybe no other country had ever experienced. We are living in one of the most polluted, corruptive and pressure intense country. The gap between rich and poor is so big; the trust between authority and citizen is so few; the social stability is so fragile that tens of thousands riots break up each year.
That is because there is no such large country started their industrilization from such a low point. Any major industrial country went through the same painful path, why do you think chinese could be examption? I don't think so.



All signs have point to one obvious fact: Without political reform, China can no longer continue the same path. CCP can learn from KMT in Taiwan to initiative political reform, or stay where they are only to put Party's interest ahead of national interest.
When did taiwan started their political reform? What is their GDP per capital in 1986? If you really have the knowledge of the background of taiwan's political reform, you would realise today is still not right time for any significant move yet.


From what they did in last few years, there is little sign they are willing to start political reform. They hold even tighter grip on internet, media, and blogs and put more descendants into jail. Meantime, the cancer of corruption is never being such worse and their foreign policy is never being such weak.
If there is anything to be sure, then one of them would be: democracy alone can't cure corruption or make you foreign policy strong or 'right'. Here, we have a perfect example--- India.

There are already many people compare current CCP to late Qing Dynasty where a regime is bound to fall.
And these same groups of people also think Mao is far better than Deng. So, do you want democracy or not?

The clock is ticking and patience is running out. It's time for CCP to savage itself.
But it doesn't mean you or CCP need to start screaming RIGHT NOW.
 

mylegend

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In fact, election reform begin in 1970s in Taiwan. Candidate without party affiliation is allow to run in municipal level.
That is because there is no such large country started their industrilization from such a low point. Any major industrial country went through the same painful path, why do you think chinese could be examption? I don't think so.





When did taiwan started their political reform? What is their GDP per capital in 1986? If you really have the knowledge of the background of taiwan's political reform, you would realise today is still not right time for any significant move yet.




If there is anything to be sure, then one of them would be: democracy alone can't cure corruption or make you foreign policy strong or 'right'. Here, we have a perfect example--- India.



And these same groups of people also think Mao is far better than Deng. So, do you want democracy or not?



But it doesn't mean you or CCP need to start screaming RIGHT NOW.
 

Ray

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That is a perfect strategy: if you cannot win by arguing the fact, then label your opposite with '50 cents' or '5 US cents'.
How droll!

I am not here to win anything because it really does not matter since this is no race or there are prizes being given.

It is just that some Chinese, who obfuscate and do not want to show the reality, buffet Kickok, when he hold the mirror to their faces!
 

RedDragon

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How droll!

I am not here to win anything because it really does not matter since this is no race or there are prizes being given.

It is just that some Chinese, who obfuscate and do not want to show the reality, buffet Kickok, when he hold the mirror to their faces!
"I am not here to win anything because it really does not matter since this is no race or there are prizes being given."

Yup, and so do we. Although, you illogical reply really amused me, including the "50 cents" label. But not everybody feels like me.

This forum is too important to have more than one person earn "50 cents" every post. Please don't make Chinese Government bankrupt.
 

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