The Chinese High-Speed Train Network No One Else Really Wants

rockdog

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Railways receives defective locomotives from Chinese firm

Will replace 16 newly inducted locomotives that have ‘under-frame cracks’
By our correspondent
Feb.09,2016
LAHORE:

Pakistan Railways is going to replace 16 newly inducted locomotives brought from China-based CSR Ziyang Locomotives Co Limited after engineers found serious defects in the locomotives and declared them unsafe to operate, especially for the passenger segment.

“Railways’ engineers have found under-frame cracks in 16 locomotives; which means they [Chinese party] haven’t provided us with a quality consignment as per our agreement,” said Railways Minister Khawaja Saad Rafique in a press briefing on Monday.
Boston mayor endorsed CRCC's products.

http://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1600972799469223931&wfr=spider&for=pc











 

Wisemarko

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Calling all Chinese products junk is stupidly naive- just like calling every German product perfect. China, just like other manufacturing nations has tiers in quality and price. The high end Chinese manufacturing (phones, electronics, automobiles) is world class. At the same time, just like Opel of Germany, many Chinese brands and producers are not know for reliability or quality. Buying from them and calling rest of the country junk producers doesn’t make any sense.
 

Armand2REP

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Calling all Chinese products junk is stupidly naive- just like calling every German product perfect. China, just like other manufacturing nations has tiers in quality and price. The high end Chinese manufacturing (phones, electronics, automobiles) is world class. At the same time, just like Opel of Germany, many Chinese brands and producers are not know for reliability or quality. Buying from them and calling rest of the country junk producers doesn’t make any sense.
There is a reason Chinese products have the reputation of being cheap junk and disposable. They cut corners to make them and then don't provide the aftermarket service to fix the problems, they are quick to make excuses not to honour warranties and making absurd RMA back to China instead of taking care in the country of sale. That is why China is incapable of making valued brands and until the culture changes, you will still see German cars outselling Chinese cars in China, much less the rest of the world.
 

Wisemarko

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There is a reason Chinese products have the reputation of being cheap junk and disposable. They cut corners to make them and then don't provide the aftermarket service to fix the problems, they are quick to make excuses not to honour warranties and making absurd RMA back to China instead of taking care in the country of sale. That is why China is incapable of making valued brands and until the culture changes, you will still see German cars outselling Chinese cars in China, much less the rest of the world.
Again, huge generalization. DJI is a chinese brand and world leader in civilian drone technology (with 70% global market share). All Apple products including iPhones, most electronics and electricals are made in China- with high reliability and quality one expects. There is a reason why China has a huge trade surplus against almost all countries including developing ones: don’t underestimate their abilities by silly generations out of ignorance/jealousy. I stop here on the topic.
 

Armand2REP

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Again, huge generalization. DJI is a chinese brand and world leader in civilian drone technology (with 70% global market share). All Apple products including iPhones, most electronics and electricals are made in China- with high reliability and quality one expects. There is a reason why China has a huge trade surplus against almost all countries including developing ones: don’t underestimate their abilities by silly generations out of ignorance/jealousy. I stop here on the topic.
DJI is not even in the top 1000 companies much less a name brand, looking at reviews their after sales service is practically non-existent. Citing Apple makes no sense, China is a screwdriver assembly line for suppliers (Foxconn) of Western brands that has foreign managers overseeing production. if left to Chinese managers the quality takes a sharp decline as they cut corners to undercut the competition. There is a huge deficit certainly not because of quality, the deficit is caused by cheap prices for disposable products. Walmart has the highest return rate and it correlates with its high percentage of Made in China inventory.
 

rockdog

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DJI is not even in the top 1000 companies much less a name brand, looking at reviews their after sales service is practically non-existent.
The Best Drones of 2018
https://www.pcmag.com/roundup/337251/the-best-drones

8/9 are from Chinese companies





Citing Apple makes no sense, China is a screwdriver assembly line for suppliers (Foxconn) of Western brands that has foreign managers overseeing production. if left to Chinese managers the quality takes a sharp decline as they cut corners to undercut the competition. There is a huge deficit certainly not because of quality, the deficit is caused by cheap prices for disposable products. Walmart has the highest return rate and it correlates with its high percentage of Made in China inventory.
 

HariPrasad-1

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Pakistan got locomotive from china and it broke down in first run itself and new engine had to call upon to pull the coaches. Train was Shalimar express.
 

rockdog

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Calling all Chinese products junk is stupidly naive- just like calling every German product perfect. China, just like other manufacturing nations has tiers in quality and price. The high end Chinese manufacturing (phones, electronics, automobiles) is world class. At the same time, just like Opel of Germany, many Chinese brands and producers are not know for reliability or quality. Buying from them and calling rest of the country junk producers doesn’t make any sense.
Sometimes, i feel we also should blame some purchaser from some developing nations. Nations from mid-east have good reputation, about the Indian buyers are quite infamous in China's international business, the aftermath is: shit price for low end product...


This is a recently lecture from online school for "international business tips" , please check the video inside.

Article:
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=Mz...e=1&scene=1&srcid=0523xouYvfqyvWBwiS6CeXKG#rd

Teaching Video:
https://v.qq.com/x/page/w06126pspqj.html

Even the make up of Indian accent is kind of offensive, still it reflects the mindset of Chinese vendors, if you can read the comments, everyone complaints that hardly to make even one penny profit from Indian buyer. This kind of manner, will be harmful to both sides.
 

carp

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Chinese government to cover up crash buried entire coach along with bodies of dead people trapped inside...... Insane and no humanity..... Shame :scared2::frusty:
Well, then India and China are both better off not doing business any more, especially the high speed train stuff. Both will be happy.
 

carp

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May 18, 2018 8:00 a.m. ET
By Trefor Moss, WSJ
PANG-ASOK, Thailand— Li Guanghe has built some of the most technically complex railroads in China. Now he faces his toughest challenge yet: working abroad to deliver a flagship rail project in Thailand that could make or break China’s hopes of selling high-speed trains abroad.

Exporting high-speed rail is one of the ambitious elements of President Xi Jinping’s Belt and Road initiative, which aims to upgrade trade and transport networks from Africa to the Pacific. But despite throwing its diplomatic weight behind high-speed rail, China has struggled to convince would-be partners to commit to the costly technology.

Singapore Express
China is planning to link Kunming to Singapore by high-speed rail, with a route that passes through Pang-Asok.


After years of stalling, Thailand in November started work on the $5.5 billion first phase of a high-speed railway that Beijing hopes will eventually form part of a China-to-Singapore route—a potentially lucrative prize for Chinese rail contractors. Now the heat is on Mr. Li to complete the initial 157-mile stretch connecting Bangkok with the city of Nakhon Ratchasima.

“There’s a lot of pressure,” said Mr. Li, a chief engineer with state-run China Railway DesignCorp. , and the man in charge of the project. Construction vehicles rumbled over the soil of this freshly turned site in Pang-Asok, a small rural town in northeast Thailand surrounded by cornfields and foothills.

“The China-Thailand railway is an important part of making the Belt and Road initiative successful,” Mr. Li said. “We want this project to be the best it can be.”

China’s domestic high-speed network is the world’s biggest, spanning over 15,000 miles. The World Bank credits the massive public-works effort with boosting China’s socio-economic development. Construction at home is set to wind down over the coming decade, however, sharpening China’s interest in exporting railways—preferably sooner rather than later.

Chinese diplomats are “making the sales pitch everywhere,” said Jonathan Hillman, a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a U.S. think tank. In doing so, they don’t always pause to consider whether the countries they’re pitching high-speed rail to really need it, he said.

Thailand and Laos are the only places where China is making concrete progress, and in these countries Chinese officials needed a decade of negotiations to extract firm commitments from their reluctant counterparts.

Li Guanghe is the man in charge of the rail project in Thailand that could make or break China’s hopes of selling its high-speed trains abroad. Photo: Trefor Moss/The Wall Street Journal

The proposed 2,200-mile Pan-Asia Railway would run south from China to Singapore, via Laos, Thailand—its 1,000-mile central section—and Malaysia. The system would be completely new; there is no high-speed rail in Southeast Asia today.

The network was originally conceived by the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, but “China is the one pushing for it to happen now,” according to Agatha Kratz, an adviser at the Rhodium Group consultancy who has written on China’s so-called railway diplomacy. “It’s made the plan its own.”

The project has been plagued by doubts over passenger demand and lack of popular support. “I won’t be able to afford a ticket on the high-speed trains,” said Sompot Kaewlaharn, a 53-year-old laborer in Pang-Asok. The old trains are slow, he admits, but like many rail services in Thailand, they’re also free to use.

“It seems the government’s doing this because they want to curry favor with China, because China’s powerful,” he said.

That view is echoed by a Thai official with knowledge of the negotiations, who said China leaned heavily on the Thais to ensure the railroad went ahead.

A model of a Chinese high-speed bullet train sits on display in Pak Chong, Thailand, Dec. 21. Photo: Li Mangmang/Xinhua/ZUMA Press

The Thai government under Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha first approved the China-backed high-speed plan in 2014, the year the former general overthrew Thailand’s elected government. The move came amid ambitious promises by the new leadership to overhaul the country’s aging infrastructure.

Then came the collapse of talks about how much interest Thailand would have to pay on Chinese loans to fund the railway. In 2016, Mr. Prayuth disappointed Beijing by announcing that Thailand would self-fund the first phase and use Thai contractors, relying only on China for equipment and technical assistance.

“The Thais did everything they could to delay,” said Ms. Kratz.

The Chinese pushed back. At the G-20 Summit in Hangzhou in late 2016, which Mr. Prayuth was attending at the hosts’ invitation, he was harangued by successive Chinese officials unhappy with delays in getting the project launched, according to the Thai official, who was present.

Over the course of the summit the Chinese diplomats wore Mr. Prayuth down until he agreed to push the start button, the person said.

China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs and a spokesman for Mr. Prayuth didn’t respond to questions.

A construction crew does ground-preparation work for the high-speed railway line, in Thailand’s Pang-Asok earlier this year, which will run parallel to an existing track. Photo: Trefor Moss/The Wall Street Journal

Mr. Li landed in July with a 58-month contract and orders from Beijing to get the railway built. He leads a team of 50 Chinese specialists and 400 Thai contractors, some of whom were working on a hot February afternoon to flatten the first two-mile strip of earth.

Mr. Li once built a notoriously difficult railroad between the Chinese cities of Yichang and Wenzhou across boggy, mountainous terrain. The Thai project is relatively straightforward, he said, but here the difficulties are cultural and political, rather than technical. Operating as a foreign guest makes for agonizing progress, he said.

Mr. Li’s senior partner in the project, Veerayuth Kaewsawang, a project engineer for the State Railway of Thailand , agreed that it can be painstaking work as they discuss every little twist and turn in the route through translators. “We negotiate about almost everything,” he said.

While China has piled pressure on its neighbors to support its high-speed rail ambitions, its desperation to land orders has given smaller countries leverage.
I think most of Chinese people don't want to see Chinese companies to build infrastructure in India, selling of cheap goods will be ok though.
 

carp

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what about the Japanese investments? They provide better technology and have some work in bullet trains in thailand. They are the ones providing higher speeds on HSR and better engines. Fore me I would love to see Chinese bullet trains and Japanese trains compete in these markets. But I would love to see Indian cars compete with Korean and Japanese automakers.
then India should focus on getting everything from Japanese for better technology higher speed and better engines, forget about Chinese stuff and Chinese people will love to see that, why not right?
 

rockdog

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then India should focus on getting everything from Japanese for better technology higher speed and better engines, forget about Chinese stuff and Chinese people will love to see that, why not right?
I think most of Chinese people don't want to see Chinese companies to build infrastructure in India, selling of cheap goods will be ok though.
Most Chinese netizen indeed were not happy their companies to build infrastructures for India, such as telecom networks, power grid, railway/metro system... But this is the business world, no one has right to stop them.

By building the OBOR surrounding India, nations around India would have more routes to dump the Chinese products to Indian domestic market.
 

Armand2REP

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By building the OBOR surrounding India, nations around India would have more routes to dump the Chinese products to Indian domestic market.
There is one big problem with OBOR that isn't an Indian problem, it is a Chinese debt problem. China loaned Sri Lanka $10 billion for a port that now sits idle and defaulted with Chinese banks on the hook. Several times more was given to Pakistan that looks set to default and many more defaults on the horizon. Most of the countries that had initially signed up are now thinking twice about taking on Chinese debt they know they can't pay back which puts the entire initiative at risk. With hundreds of billions of Chinese depositors money on the line Chinese banks should think hard if it is wise to loan out so much money they will never see again.
 

rockdog

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There is one big problem with OBOR that isn't an Indian problem, it is a Chinese debt problem. China loaned Sri Lanka $10 billion for a port that now sits idle and defaulted with Chinese banks on the hook. Several times more was given to Pakistan that looks set to default and many more defaults on the horizon. Most of the countries that had initially signed up are now thinking twice about taking on Chinese debt they know they can't pay back which puts the entire initiative at risk. With hundreds of billions of Chinese depositors money on the line Chinese banks
should think hard if it is wise to loan out so much money they will never see again.
Again dear Armand2REP, you discovered Chinese debt and economic crisis for at least 7 years, i still recommend you to use your accurate prediction to short Chinese companies and banks on stock market, you must be very rich now, how many times more than your veteran pension?
 

Armand2REP

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Again dear Armand2REP, you discovered Chinese debt and economic crisis for at least 7 years, i still recommend you to use your accurate prediction to short Chinese companies and banks on stock market, you must be very rich now, how many times more than your veteran pension?
I watched a documentary not too long ago called The Chinese Hustle that laid out the IPOs of Chinese companies on the NYSE were all scams faking their numbers by up to 10X. If we were to audit Chinese banks and corporations would we find similar fraud?
 

nimo_cn

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I watched a documentary not too long ago called The Chinese Hustle that laid out the IPOs of Chinese companies on the NYSE were all scams faking their numbers by up to 10X. If we were to audit Chinese banks and corporations would we find similar fraud?
oh yeah, I have watched that documentary. I also watched a movie "the wallstreet wolf" which basically told the same story except for that they were American companies.
 

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