The best critical analysis of j20 fighter

p2prada

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I see J-20 as F-117A analog, this means rather some sort of bomber or fighter bomber than multirole or air superiority fighter.
This was the first impression when the J-20 was revealed for most observers. Canards allow for superior low speed, low altitude performance as compared to a design without it.

Sure it may be able to fire BVR and WVR AAMs, but that in no way says if the aircraft is rigged for air superiority or strike.
 

niceguy2011

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You missed the point. The general public in India does not care about who has the better plane. Chinese socio economic development and economy is well ahead of India's and that is the truth and that's where we draw the line.

The fact is your country is under military sanctions from the west while we are not. So, in the time that you are building and developing your own industry, we are buying the same from outside. The only difference is while your products are indigenous ours are simply much better in both quality and technology.

We are able to match your spending through JVs as well. What takes $100Million to make in your country it takes the same fr us too. It's just that we share the money with Israel/Russia/France and make up for it by spending only $50Million while our partner spends $50Million. You see the difference. After the MRCA deal is signed the frequency of these deals will only increase.



I don't really have a come back to this hopeless statement. The MKI is better than anything you have. The T-50 does the work of 3 MKIs according to official statements. If you wanna say J-20 can do the work of 5 MKIs then be my guest. But remember you don't even have your own engines on your own aircraft.



China allowed a few pictures, so what? Both F-22 and T-50 were in airshows. Much better.
LOL, airshow, I can put a model at there.
u can go ahead to type in J 20 in youtube, U will get much much more detail videos than F22 and T50.
new videos r upload by funs almost every week. u can see every step of J20.
 
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niceguy2011

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This is only OBOGS problem, I know that people like theories that there are bigger problems but only problem is with OBOGS, nothing else. Besides this F-22A's will probably be all upgraded to latest Block upgrade, this can be another reason why they will not be used so long.

And yes, proper redesigning and problems solving will take time.
it not OBOGS problem at all. I said a much much bigger problem.
 
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p2prada

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LOL, airshow, I can put a model at there.
u can go ahead to type in J 20 in youtube, U will get much much more detail videos than F22 and T50.
Seems you missed the news. T-50s were flying in MAKS this year. Open source info. One T-50 also had a small engine issue.

Of course if you think the Russians could make models fly then that would be a compliment.

You can type whatever you want to, wherever you want to. But there is more open source info about both F-22 and T-50 than there is about J-20. Heck you don't even know the size of the radar that J-20 will be getting, nor do you know the engine designation and also nothing about being air superiority or strike.

As of today, it is equivalent to the role the Su-34 plays. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Damian

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it not OBOGS problem at all. I said a much much bigger problem.
Yeah what problem? :D

How can You know what is this problem? You have a magic crystal ball that's told You what is this serious problem?

Sorry, I don't belive Chinese informations because this are not true in 99,99%, funny that actually all official US goverment authorities informations are true in 90% of cases. If we don't know something then it is OPSEC and we never new about this. So stop wild speculations. :)
 

niceguy2011

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Seems you missed the news. T-50s were flying in MAKS this year. Open source info. One T-50 also had a small engine issue.

Of course if you think the Russians could make models fly then that would be a compliment.

You can type whatever you want to, wherever you want to. But there is more open source info about both F-22 and T-50 than there is about J-20. Heck you don't even know the size of the radar that J-20 will be getting, nor do you know the engine designation and also nothing about being air superiority or strike.

As of today, it is equivalent to the role the Su-34 plays. Nothing more, nothing less.
new videos for J20 r upload by funs almost every week. u can see every step of J20. how about F22, T50?
Radar size? Pros can figure out by compair it to those viehicles near the jet, also they will know how good it is.
We dont need to tell anything about it. another country 's GOV will have their own answer.
 
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niceguy2011

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Yeah what problem? :D

How can You know what is this problem? You have a magic crystal ball that's told You what is this serious problem?

Sorry, I don't belive Chinese informations because this are not true in 99,99%, funny that actually all official US goverment authorities informations are true in 90% of cases. If we don't know something then it is OPSEC and we never new about this. So stop wild speculations. :)
Belive in US ? ï¼µmust belive there is nucler weapon product by saadm Hussein .
 

Damian

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Belive in US ? ï¼µmust belive there is nucler weapon product by saadm Hussein .
Yes I belive more US than PRC, why, simple, PRC official are socialists/communists, so they are automaticaly liers, You should know that, You live there, and free economy don't mean free country where goverment is more honest.

I say this another way, before Chinese designers will tell that they are in par with Russia or US in designing modern weapon systems like stealth aircraft, they should first learn how properly design much simpler thing like tank, because they still don't understand simple principles of such weapon systems designing.

It is obvious that they also don't understand principles of desiginign Stealth aircraft, where most important is size of aircraft for RCS reduction.

J-20 as I said earlier is more bomber than air superiority fighter that should be small and agile.
 
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Damian

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it is ur choose to belive earth is a squre.
You don't know in what I belive, so don't judge before You will learn more.

Before I judge something I try to gather as much knowledge as possible.

And I don't give a shit about from what country is specific weapon system.

You also should know that if PRC just recently started to play with stealth technology they will be far from Russia and US that were experimenting with stealth technology from at least mid cold war, look how long take US to field F-22A, it takes time to properly design weapon system, especially as advanced as stealth fighter.
 

A.V.

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Keep this thread to technical discussions and avoid personal attacks please , not tolerated on this forum. niceguy discuss the technical details , the forum is not against any country we only discuss things , so do it that way , all non sense posts being cleaned up
 

Damian

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No, You not, and PRC is not rising, Your designers don't even know how to properly design MBT using Western or Soviet design principles, instead they designed something that is just purely stupid design that have stupidly designed front turret protection (more RHA and air than composite armor), they even proved it by using completely different turret design in ZTZ-99A2. So at least they are learning.

Also protection levels withing safe manouvering angles are not high, lack of proper turret design and lack of ballistic skirts or dynamic protection over non ballistic skirts permitts perforations at +/- 20-35 degrees from turret/hull center line.

This is only one of many examples.

So don't try to spread PRC goverment propaganda that they are abale to properly design stealth fighter if they don't even know how properly design tank.
 

Damian

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And what is turth? ;)

There is no absolute truth. Something that can be truth for You from different point of view si complete BS.

For example J-20 design.

For Chinese designers and people it is good design, but for more experienced designers that were working on Stealth technology such design is complete nonsense. But for Chinese people point of view of these different designers is nonsense.

And now who is more right? Side that just recently started to work on Stealth technology? Or these that have more experience with such technology? :)

Logic my dear friends, logic!
 

Kunal Biswas

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Look at the time period for making F22, Devlopment time and than testing at last produtions..

Same for T-50 prototypes..

J-20 is not advance it have to deal with many issue clearly posted on first page, It will take time to develop full fledged operational fighter.
 

Damian

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Indeed. What most people don't understand is that development of modern highly advanced weapon system takes time and huge amounts of money for R&D.

This problem is less visible with upgrades and modifications of existing weapon systems but developing something from scratch is very difficult, especially if this thing needs to work properly on battlefield.
 

plugwater

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Look at the time period for making F22, Devlopment time and than testing at last produtions..

Same for T-50 prototypes..

J-20 is not advance it have to deal with many issue clearly posted on first page, It will take time to develop full fledged operational fighter.
We ll never know if its developed or not. To me it will be a 4th gen fighter with 5th gen paint job.
 

Godless-Kafir

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Actually Canards when made of composites will not be visible to the Radar, Canard being smaller than a wing will only make it easier to manufacture as a single composite structure.

The engine nozzle is also spherical on the JSF not to mention we dont know how the Pak-Fa nozzle will turn out.

The WS-10 Engine is so far not shown to be reliable, the metallurgy like Single crystal technology and other critical heat resistant light weight alloys are hard to master, its perhaps a black art that the ones how have will jealously guard it and not share, as was the case with the Kaveri engine which has similar problems, i guess thats why Chinese order engines from Russia still.

The process of bonding composites is a tricky one, constant de-limanation and other structural faults are prone to plague the aircraft if they dont know how to mold them in the autocalve, not to mention get them to the desired shape.

Avionics is really the area that China will not be able to catch up in the near future. This alone will push the project way behind schedule.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Actually Canards when made of composites will not be visible to the Radar, Canard being smaller than a wing will only make it easier to manufacture a single composite structure.

The engine nozzle is also spherical on the JSF not to mention we dont know how the Pak-Fa nozzle will turn out.

The WS-10 Engine is so far not shown to be reliable, the metallurgy like Single crystal technology and other critical heat resistant light weight alloys are hard to master, its perhaps a black art that the ones how have will jealously guard it and not share, as was the case with the Kaveri engine which has similar problems, i guess the Chinese buy engines from Russia still.

The process of bonding composites is a tricky one, constant de-limanation and other structural faults are prone to plague the aircraft if they dont know how to mold them in the autocalve, not to mention get them to the desired shape.

Avionics is really the area that China will not be able to catch up in the near future. This alone will push the project way behind schedule.

Canards will be made from composite radar absorbing material but that doesn't solve the problem it will increase the size on radar, Abt engines, Look at JSF engines you will notices a jig-jazz pattern at exhausts to minimize radar signature, F-22 use so does f-35, T-50-2 new engines probably have such things..

Regarding avionics, What language used to program, Its not mil standard i heard..
 

Damian

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The engine nozzle is also spherical on the JSF not to mention we dont know how the Pak-Fa nozzle will turn out.
F-35 was never designed to be as Stealth as F-22, one of the reasons were that it was also intended for export.
 

Godless-Kafir

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You don't know in what I belive, so don't judge before You will learn more.

Before I judge something I try to gather as much knowledge as possible.


And I don't give a shit about from what country is specific weapon system.

You also should know that if PRC just recently started to play with stealth technology they will be far from Russia and US that were experimenting with stealth technology from at least mid cold war, look how long take US to field F-22A, it takes time to properly design weapon system, especially as advanced as stealth fighter.
So far most of your posts have been biased and illogical at time, not to mention you dont want to seem to gather all the facts before you start criticizing at some one.

China is not a raising power? Really? Unless you have been living inside a well the past 20years, its hard to miss, Have you seen the economic statistics?

J-20 to me seem very un-evolved still, its basically an 4th gen airframe with some saw tooth angles and a bubble canopy. However they may catch up, just because someone started late does not mean they wont catch up because these technologies are slow to evolve there is ever possibility others may catch up. Apart from Avionics i think they will get the air frame right.

Also its not a bad design haveing a big Delta Wing means there is more space for internal weapons load. The Delta wing is also the most Stealthy design by default. The Avro Vulcan was a good example of how Delta wings have low RC by default.
 

Kunal Biswas

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F-35 was never designed to be as Stealth as F-22, one of the reasons were that it was also intended for export.
Their is nothing like that, Both are good platforms, F-35 meant to be cheaper coz of one engine and same as F-16 back in 80s like f-35 now..
 

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