The Atheism/Agnosticism Thread

Do you think God exists?


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Tactical Doge

𝕱𝖔𝖔𝖑𝖘 𝖗𝖚𝖘𝖍 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑𝖘 𝖋𝖊𝖆𝖗
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No idea about Einstein & Bhaba. They could believe in Santa if the wanted. Sure didn't have any evidence to show for it.

Not qualified to say.

Again csame as the above duo. And as @LondonParisTokyo mentioned about belief absence... If you believe you have an imaginary friend (who BTW watched with popcorns as muzzies raped half your population) someone could believe in fairies, or unicorns, or closet monsters, or peeper from different dimensions.

Benifit of doubt is a rabbit hole.

You'll have to believe in everything of everyone.

And people have every right to laugh.
Okay fine
I understand your Stance
I quoted Tesla on his views on Spirituality, you said he is a nutjob, said you "thought" I quoted Einstein or something

Then I quoted Einstein himself on his views of the same, I believe you missed his point on a supreme Consciousness of the universe so to say

My point with AI was, if we could simulate a Human consciousness, and that is a big IF, that would be end of spirituality and studies as we know it, how do we even classify that "thing" is it alive, is it gaining knowledge and reaching at inferences all on it's own, and how does it concede with our view of "life"
 

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WHAT IS POLITICAL RELIGION?
Political religion, according to Phillipe Burin, is the instrumentalization of religion by a ruling power with the aim of “encompassing the entire life of society in the political (sphere)”. This can take place due to the commonalities that exist between traditional religion and politics, such as the provision of an identity and a common goal. Political scientist, Hans Maier, takes the concept further and claims that political religion often involves the “…creation of an empire ‘of this world’ where the gods of this empire are human and worldly…” Although the concept of political religion was mainly used in the context of Europe, scholars such as Zuo Jiping have managed to use the concept to analyse China.

ANTI-RELIGIOUS SENTIMENT IN CHINA’S FORMATIVE YEARS
The Marxist ideology that laid the ideological framework for the multitude of communist movements had considered the very existence of religion to be the antithesis of human self-realization. Arguing that “religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature”, Karl Marx believed that religion merely provided the proletarian with a temporary relief and drained their capacity to confront the horrifying nature of capitalism. Thus, communist movements around the world such as the Communist Party of China (zhongguo gongchangdang 中国共产党), or CPC in short, had adopted the same policy stances.

However, it is worth noting that such anti-religion stances were not at all aberrant to the nascent stages of modern Chinese society. Even in the very last days of the 19th century, social and political policies aimed at modernization were already in place. For example, the movement to “destroy/confiscate temples to build schools” (huimiao banxue 毁庙办学) demonstrated the increasing delegitimization of religion in state-building even in years prior to CPC rule. By the early 1920s, such delegitimization was not limited to local, traditional religions but had been extended to other religions such as Christianity, which was viewed as an extension of foreign imperialism. Thus, the CPC could be argued to be merely “carrying the torch” when it came to power in China in 1949.

THE BIRTH OF MAO ZEDONG THOUGHT
In contrast to following the Marxist tradition of atheism and rejecting religion (termed by Marx himself as “the opium of the masses”), the emergence of a political religion in China could be seen in the early 1940s. Having risen to power by replacing Bo Gu (who was then-leader of the CPC) with his surrogate Zhang Wentian at the 1935 Zunyi Conference (zunyi huyi 遵义会议), Mao consolidated political power in the early 1940s during the Yan’an Rectification Movement (yan’an zhengfeng yundong 延安整风运动) by being appointed as the Chairman (zhuxi 主席) of the CPC with ultimate decision-making authority.

With Mao’s authority having no challenger, other leading party cadres quickly got in line and proclaimed their fealty to Mao Zedong. Despite having once been Mao’s superior in the party hierarchy, Zhou Enlai, too, declared that Mao’s leadership was flawless and that any direction dictated by Mao is the direction of the party. The Yan’an Rectification Movement also saw party cadres, new and old alike, studying Mao’s Zedong Thought (mao zedong sixiang 毛泽东思想). It was this studying of Mao’s works as a Marxist theoretician that would mark the start of ideological divergence of the CPC away from the Communist International (‘Comintern’) organization, as historian Maurice Meisner argues.

These events in Yan’an would lay the foundation of the popular worship that Mao could constantly count on for the next 30-odd years of his rule. Mass movements had always inspired Mao and his popular following amongst the masses gave him the legitimacy needed for his next course of political action. Standing atop the Gate of Heavenly Peace in Tiananmen Square, he would launch political campaigns to purge his political opponents by utilizing his popular following amongst the masses. This was the Weberian concept of charismatic authority taken to the extreme. To the people, Mao was a living prophet who could single-handedly deliver salvation to the people. And the political religion that was Mao would reach its peak during the Cultural Revolution (wenhua dageming 文化大革命) starting in the mid-1960s.

THE WORSHIP OF A LIVING GOD
Having lost the lion’s share of his political capital by the early 1960s with the failure of the Great Leap Forward (da yuejin 大跃进), Mao set out to reconsolidate his political power. Then-Defence Minister of the People’s Republic of China, Lin Biao, initiated numerous campaigns to ameliorate Mao’s image, the most successful of which was the “Learn from Comrade Lei Feng’s Good Example” (xuexi leifeng haobanyang 学习雷锋好榜样) in which recently-deceased soldier, Lei Feng, was portrayed by the party apparatus as a role model whom the masses should seek to emulate. In fact, a now-iconic song written as part of the Lei Feng campaign actively called on citizens to follow Lei Feng’s example and “internalize Mao Zedong’s teachings” and to use those teachings to as a weapon to defend the motherland.

If Mao was popular amongst the citizenry before, the official institutionalization of this new “political religion” that revolved around Mao would set him on the path to becoming a living god. Similarly, during the Eleventh Plenary Session of the Eighth Central Committee in 1966, the groundwork for societal change was reinforced when Lin Biao proclaimed that party members had to either adhere to Mao Zedong Thought or leave the party.

Shortly afterwards, on the eve of the Cultural Revolution, Mao launched his campaign against chief rival, Liu Shaoqi, by attacking Shaoqi’s deputy, Peng Zhen. Claiming that Peng was a major proponent of revisionism in the CPC, Mao mobilized a revolutionary movement against him. The Central Cultural Revolution Group (zhongyang wenge xiaozu 中央文革小组) was formed in early 1965 and populated by Mao’s supporters. By May of that year, the now-infamous May 16 Circular had purged Peng Zhen and his allies and called on party members to “follow Comrade Mao’s instructions…(and)thoroughly criticize and repudiate the reactionary bourgeois ideas in the sphere of academic work, education, journalism, literature and art, and publishing, and seize the leadership in these cultural spheres”. In short, this meant that Mao now held the reins and could directly dictate the Cultural Revolution.

THE RED GUARD AS THE ARMY OF GOD
With the state’s organizations thrown into a state of turmoil, a group of students from Tsinghua Middle School (qinghua fuzhong 清华附中) and Peking University (beijing daxue 北京大学) brought forward handwritten posters with large-sized Chinese characters accusing the school’s administrators of being “anti-revolutionaries”. By the middle of June 1966, students from at least 5 other schools in Beijing formed organizations known collectively as the Red Guards. Viewing Mao as their prophet, the oath of the Red Guard (as translated) was:

“We are the guards of red power. Chairman Mao is our mountain of support. Liberation of all mankind is our righteous duty; Mao Zedong Thought is the highest guiding principle for our actions. We vow to protect the Party Central and our great leader Chairman Mao. With resolution, we will shed our last drop of blood!“

Thus, what started as a group of students was now a collective political force on the scene known as the Red Guards. Liu Shaoqi, as Vice Chairman of the CPC, had reckoned that all top-down political efforts should be managed through work teams despatched from the party. To Liu, such work teams could serve as a guide to students and prevent any worsening of the rapidly deteriorating situation on the ground. This worsened his already terrible relationship with Mao, who had sided with the Red Guards and expressed his warm support to them though a return letter. He had written: “…your posters (…) state clearly your anger (..) I want to extend you warm support (…) Whether in Beijing or the whole country, whoever adopts the same revolutionary attitude as yours will have our uniformly warm support…”


With the public revelation of the letter, the Red Guards became an unstoppable political force: hordes of Red Guards sprang from schools and officers all over the state. Newspapers such as the People’s Daily and Liberation Army Daily rapidly increased their coverage of Mao. His quotes were plastered on the front page of newspapers, with one editorial going as far as stating that “…regardless of time or authority, those who dare to oppose Mao Zedong will be hunted and eliminated by our Party and country“. Chairman Mao’s Quotations (mao zhuxi yulu 毛主席语录), or the Little Red Book, was regarded as a Bible, and highly sought after by both CPC cadres and Red Guard alike. Daily study sessions were made compulsory for both students and workers. No one was permitted to challenge or question the Little Red Book’s contents, as it would mean questioning the wisdom of infallible Mao Zedong. Anyone who dared do so possibly faced the death penalty.

The final seal of approval for the Red Guards came two months later in the middle of August when Mao stood atop the Tiananmen Gate and personally reviewed nearly half a million Red Guard personnel who had travelled to Beijing from all over China. Through his audiences with the Red Guard, the worship and portrayal of Mao as a living god reached even greater heights.

SMASHING THE OLD WORLD TO CREATE A NEW ONE
With Cultural Revolution now underway, societal change rapidly followed. As part of the campaign to Destroy the Four Olds and Establish the Four News (posijiu li sixin 破四旧立四新), traditional customs, culture, habits and ideas soon came under existential threat by this sudden wave of pseudo-religious fervour. Red Guards swept through the country, wrecking destruction upon places that had been spared by previous Red Guards. In the town of Qufu, Red Guards damaged anything Confucius-associated in their attempt to “bring down the Confucian establishment” (dadao kongjiadian 打倒孔家店).

According to scholars, Yan Jiaqi and Gao Gao, certain Red Guard segments even attempted to turn China into a “Red Sea”. By mobilizing representatives, houses and shops lining the streets were given a coat of paint. Revolutionary slogans and posters pledging allegiance to Mao were plastered on all walls where available. Public humiliations and beatings as part of “self-struggle” sessions were widespread with confessions wrought from victims through repeated abuse. As former Red Guard, Zheng Zisheng, recalls, inter-factional fighting amongst the Red Guards also occurred, often with fatal consequences, as all factions sought distinctly to preserve Mao’s revolutionary lineage. In the political religion in which Mao was God, routine chaos and destruction was now the norm.

Yet the impact of Mao’s desire to eliminate traditional elements extended far beyond what has been described thus far. State symbols were also not spared. With its composer politically purged and dead whilst in prison, the “March of the Volunteers” (yiyongjun jinxingqu 义勇军进行曲) ceased to be used as the official national anthem in China. Rather, the de facto national anthem was “The East is Red” (dongfanghong 东方红), a song containing lyrics praising Mao. An examination of the opening chorus (translated into English) of the song gives some insight to the extent of the deification of Mao:

“The East is Red, the Sun rises.

From China, Mao Zedong emerges.

He strives for the people’s happiness,

Hurray, he is the people’s Messiah!”

Similar songs also emerged, branding Mao as “the Great Helmsman (duoshou 舵手), “the Great Leader (lingdaoren 领导人)” and the like. Names of people and streets were also changed to remove any feudal connotations. The famous Chang’an Avenue in Beijing was renamed “East is Red Avenue (dongfanghongjie 东方红街)”. Other similar changes included renaming roads to include references to the ongoing “revolution” such as “Cultural Revolution Road” (wengejie 文革街) or “Worker Street (gongrenjie 工人街). Store owners also began to change the names of their businesses along similar lines for fear of being labelled as a “anti-revolutionary capitalist roader” (zou zipai de fangemingfenzi 走资派的反革命分子).

Beyond the name changes, businesses opted to halt the supply of luxury goods in favour of cheap commodities. Under Mao, the Red Guards had sought to turn commercial businesses into living examples of Mao Zedong Thought, where socialist business ideas would be embraced, and capitalist ideas shunned.

LIFE AFTER THE LIVING GOD
Having discussed the rise of Maoism, the question of whether Mao had truly attained the atheism in the Marxist sense appears to be a foregone conclusion. Despite religion being something antithetical to Mao Zedong Thought and Marxism, the very reverence of Mao and his works leads to the suggestion that China was not on the path Mao had hoped it to be. On the contrary, the very idea of Mao as a messiah and the claim that his teachings could deliver mankind from all ills point towards the undoubted presence of a political religion during the very heights of the Cultural Revolution. Traditional beliefs and customs were simply replaced with the ideology that was Mao Zedong Thought, with Mao himself occupying the place once reserved for ancient deities such as Confucius.
 

Blood+

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UK Core is still church based and it's still based on ages old law and order which they received from their ancestors which were hard-core religious peeps. UK is not a atheist country they have working churches most of the people still celebrate Christian festivals and it's just going through a cultural change by many new people going into different religions.

In reality UK is officially a Christian country.
What they used to be or what they inherited from their erstwhile religious ancestors are of no consequence. The fact is, the majority of the white Britishers have distanced themselves from religion and god and more of them keep leaving their religion every day. It's the citizens that matter.
Well what people here are doing? They are trying to do brainwashing.
More like reverse the effect of brainwashing that the believers received as kids.
REALITY REMAINS SIMPLE RELIGION BRINGS HOLIDAYS GATHER FAMILIES TOGETHER
Atheists can do the same, what makes you think we can't??
IT BRINGS MORTALITY (FEAR OF GOD)
Yeah, through fear of eternal damnation!! While we intent to bring it through enlightment. That's the difference between the two groups.
IT BRINGS IDENTITY
You have got your name, you have got your family name, you have got your nationality - what more identity can a person want??!!
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR SOME PEOPLE IN BAD TIME IT GIVES THEM PEACE for most of the population this is what religion is its part of their life.
A false hope is just that - a false hope.


Basic agenda of atheist state's and ideology just like every religion is to spread by ridiculing enemy for example religion.
No one should be forced into leaving their religion, there is no two way about it. We want to do it through self enlightenment, by teaching the masses to question their beliefs and then come to a conclusion on their own accords!! That's what the west and north Europeans did and take a look - they are among the wealthiest and happiest of folks on this planet!!
When atheist comes in power they attack Hinduism first in india why because it's a separate ideology.
That's votebank politics for you. By the way, I suppose by atheists, you mean the Congis?? I don't think they are atheists at all, some of them maybe but it's definitely not their party line.
 
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Bleh

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I believe you missed his point on a supreme Consciousness of the universe so to say
Either that, or I'd don't have to agree with him... It was his personal concept, & baseless, not some universally accepted theory like relativity. Stephen Hawkings was or your Tesla could be of different opinion.

My idol said so, is counterproductive way of thinking. You idol is just a guy.
 
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Tactical Doge

𝕱𝖔𝖔𝖑𝖘 𝖗𝖚𝖘𝖍 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑𝖘 𝖋𝖊𝖆𝖗
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My daddy said so, is counterproductive way of thinking. Daddy is just a guy.
I don't know in what sense you typed this but I request you to clarify/delete this part
I find it offensive
 

N4tsula67

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Of course, it is. That's why I never do that. I learn from them but never quote them.

Uhhh....they conducted a study on school-going children and came to this conclusion, so ain't exactly appealing to authority in this case.
Citation for this study on schoolkids.
What were the other factors different between them?
 

Tactical Doge

𝕱𝖔𝖔𝖑𝖘 𝖗𝖚𝖘𝖍 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑𝖘 𝖋𝖊𝖆𝖗
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Either that, or I'd don't have to agree with him... It was his personal concept, & baseless, not some universally accepted theory like relativity. Stephen Hawkings was or your Tesla could be of different opinion.
Yeah I think I get your Stance now
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and everyone necessarily doesn't have to agree upon every single minute stuff
 

Tactical Doge

𝕱𝖔𝖔𝖑𝖘 𝖗𝖚𝖘𝖍 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑𝖘 𝖋𝖊𝖆𝖗
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Godfather. Don't have godfathers whose word you take as gospel because they're leading brain in some specific field.
I don't take some words as gospels, I used them to support my argument
For instance Einstein's Supreme soul is very similar to Brahman/parmaatma

Please redact your post, don't resort to "fathers and Godfathers"
 

Assassin 2.0

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What they used to be or what they inherited from their erstwhile religious ancestors are of no consequence. The fact is, the majority of the white Britishers have distanced themselves from religion and god and more of them keep leaving their religion every day. It's the citizens that matter
This is what atheism is your superior ideology still can't generate anything a working governance system? That's a shame 😂 atheist are fast to ridicule the past but they are willing to adapt the religious governance system that's a shame that's not how a true atheist state looks like. Being distanced from God is a different thing but worshipping under atheism is a different. Atheist society which all you aim on is a society in which atheist don't use the working methods of the previous religious ideology. UK is not a atheist society sorry you are again trying to hijack a country which society is based on old teaching and inspiration which are given by their civilization.
Atheism means something new modern and more advanced.

images - 2021-05-27T201643.262.jpeg


More like reverse the effect of brainwashing that the believers received as kids.
REALITY REMAINS SIMPLE RELIGION BRINGS HOLIDAYS GATHER FAMILIES TOGETHER
Atheists can do the same, what makes you think we can't??
[/QUOTE]
Well big example like china East Germany soviet union portray that You can't celebrate anything other than political religion like victories parades or worshipping your leader have you ever heard. How can you replace a religious festival with something which is atheist in nature without bring political agenda in it because nothing other exists which give human some spirit of life.
You have got your name, you have got your family name, you have got
Well why does family name matter in atheism? For me name's family names have religious background which brings my cultural identity for Sikhs their name portray that they are sikh for Muslims likewise for xtians likewise. In a true atheist state you should be named like numbers or named after some nuclear missile 😂.
 

Bleh

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Yeah I think I get your Stance now
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and everyone necessarily doesn't have to agree upon every single minute stuff
No. My stand is, you can have whatever belief you want to have, but that doesn't make it real. So don't expect other people to take them seriously.
If you are an adult who thinks you have an imaginary friend, normal people may laugh at you. Some will do it to you face (eg: you do it to muzzies, they do it to you, crickets do it to both of you & so on).
Please redact your post, don't resort to "fathers and Godfathers"
No. I didn't mean it as offence, but I meant exactly what I wrote. I won't pretend otherwise.
 
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Tactical Doge

𝕱𝖔𝖔𝖑𝖘 𝖗𝖚𝖘𝖍 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑𝖘 𝖋𝖊𝖆𝖗
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No. My stand is, you can have whatever belief you want to have, but that doesn't make it real. So some expect other people to act like that.
If you are an adult who thinks you have an imaginary friend, people may laugh at you. Some will do it to you face.
I don't have an Imaginary friend
I do my own work doesn't have to rely on anyone else
But I will say this, there have been dire times in my life when the imaginary friend was my "Copium" provider to cope up with shit, there have been instances were I thought "fuck it" but later picked up a Gita and read it, gave me control kept me calm, I don't attribute it to some 'supernatural' power or some 'skydaddy' though, it is something innate in all of us to hold on to the lowest hanging branch, Human history stands testimony,
I respect your Stance bleh Ji, I don't expect anyone to respect mine

But for now, redact your post on father's and Godfathers please, I find it incredibly offensive, you may have meant it in a different manner, But please redact
 

Assassin 2.0

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Thank you
Good that atleast there is some common ground
There can be no common ground against atheist group's these kiddos are like they think that if a number population is atheist that country is a atheist lol. That doesn't matter if a country have a some people which don't do worship but follow religious festival some people latter in life become religious if you need to wipe religion from a country you need to transform it into true atheist state.

In USA on dollar bills it's written in god we trust hundred of different type of examples are everywhere around the world.

There is nothing like catcha pakka atheist.
Even the true atheist state's believe that it's difficult to govern country without political religion.
 

Blood+

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This is what atheism is your superior ideology still can't generate anything a working governance system? That's a shame 😂 atheist are fast to ridicule the past but they are willing to adapt the religious governance system that's a shame that's not how a true atheist state looks like.
That's called being pragmatic, why reinvent the wheel?? Why throw away the baby with the bathwater?? So on and so forth. But then again, your little religious mind might find it hard to wrap itself around such an idea, that's not outta the ordinary.
Being distanced from God is a different thing but worshipping under atheism is a different.
And your point being.......................what??
Atheist society which all you aim on is a society in which atheist don't use the working methods of the previous religious ideology.
Ok, so now you will decide what we do and do not want?? What makes you think we want to replicate the commies?? I'm not a commie and neither are the Scandinavians, who are overwhelmingly atheistic just like most of their western European cousins.
UK is not a atheist society sorry you are again trying to hijack a country which society is based on old teaching and inspiration which are given by their civilization.
Stop putting words in my mouth you dumbass!! I just said that the vast majority of their white population has left Christianity which is a fact you effing mong!!
Atheism means something new modern and more advanced.
The famed prejudice of the believer at play, nothing new to me.




Well big example like china East Germany soviet union portray that You can't celebrate anything other than political religion like victories parades or worshipping your leader have you ever heard. How can you replace a religious festival with something which is atheist in nature without bring political agenda in it because nothing other exists which give human some spirit of life.
So, all atheists are commies and the nordic nations do not exist in your tiny little bubble?? Why do I even try I wonder.
Well why does family name matter in atheism?
Frankly speaking, it doesn't. You were the one who was so hung up on identity (which only goes to show your insecurities), that's why I mentioned it. Otherwise, I don't give two figs about such crap, being a human and an Indian and having a first name is all the identity I would ever want.
For me name's family names have religious background which brings my cultural identity for Sikhs their
name portray that they are sikh for Muslims likewise for xtians likewise.
I've got a Hindu Brahmin sounding name, does that make me a Hindu then?? What the fuck kinda harebrained logic is that??!!
In a true atheist state you should be named like numbers or named after some nuclear missile 😂.
Why not?? One should be free to do whatever he/she wants to as long as they are not causing any harm to anyone while doing so.
 

Assassin 2.0

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being a human and an Indian and having a first name is all the identity I would ever want.
That's called being pragmatic, why reinvent the wheel?? Why throw away the baby with the bathwater?? So on and so forth. But then again, your little religious mind might find it hard to wrap itself around such an idea, that's not outta the ordinary.
Well if it's fine to believe that your queen is a head of UK Church it's fine. Even if your constitution claims that you are Christian country.
And your point being.......................what?
Ok, so now you will decide what we do and do not want?? What makes you think we want to replicate the commies?? I'm not a commie and neither are the Scandinavians, who are overwhelmingly atheistic just like most of their western European cousins
I'm not asking you to become commii but how will you replace Diwali Holi eid xmas with communist religion i gave you a genuine real life display of ATHEIST State's tackled this issue to give motivation to people.
Otherwise, I don't give two figs about such crap, being a human and an Indian and having a first name is all the identity I would ever want.
Worshipping your Flag country is also part of a religion it's called political religion. I think only identity which you should keep under atheism is that you are a animal. 😅
 

Blood+

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There can be no common ground against atheist group's these kiddos are like they think that if a number population is atheist that country is a atheist lol.
If it acts like one, looks like one, and quacks like one - then chances are it IS one!! Just because you wanna remain blissfully oblivious to what is painfully obvious to everyone else (everyone with a working brain that is), won't make it go away.
That doesn't matter if a country have a some people which don't do worship but follow religious festival some people latter in life become religious if you need to wipe religion from a country you need to transform it into true atheist state.
That's the 'no true Scotsman fallacy. another hallmark of your lot.
In USA on dollar bills it's written in god we trust hundred of different type of examples are everywhere around the world.
The USA is the Saudi Arabia of the white world. Over 60 percent of their population do not accept the theory of evolution, of course they will write such craps on their bills.
There is nothing like catcha pakka atheist.
Even the true atheist state's believe that it's difficult to govern country without political religion.
Again, only presumptions, but nothing of substance.
 
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