TEDBF or ORCA Updates

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Using specs from internet and designing fighter aircraft in defence forum is easy. To design one, build, fly and prove is not. To those people who takes the F-35, Checkmate and gives do this, do that... gyan on fighter design project must realise the ground reality that all ADA has is the experience of designing and realising one 4.5th gen light combat aircraft.

So what's the purpose of unofficial fan forum like this? We all are here for hobby.
Otherwise, it would be very intresting if every member honestly revealed their age-group, qualification, professional experience. In technical forums, philosophical comments don't add value.
Every single commenter is basically "giving gyan" (in rude/jealous language) & expects some acceptance & appreciation. But a technically qualified person can give better "gyan" on technical subjects. Anyways, that's the purpose of unofficial forums like this to share & discuss ideas, but as a hobby, DoD doesn't monitor forums like this for advice.

Tejas MK2, AMCA, TEDBF all needs to be derived from this humble background. Not just the aircraft, but the complex electronics, communication and sensor equipments too.

Certain components from existing/older jets can be used for prototyping can be used for DEM/VAL purpose like in case of YF-22/23 & X-35, etc but final IOC product may require custom components mostly because we are looking at a gen-leap. Hence a next gen jet is not dependant on a previous gen jet.

To expect Lockheed Martin, Sukhoi or Dassault level optimal designs from them doesn't realise the fact that Engineering or Aerospace-4.5th, 5th gen Fighter engineering is an extremely complex task that someone cannot just jump the shortcut substituting decades of experience executing dozens of large scale programs with all the complex aerodynamic and fluid dynamics data acquired over this time to research out and freeze the designs.

That's bcoz corrupt puppeted monarchs have ruled us after independence, stalled our R&D, kept us dependant on imports. Otherwise, Racism/Nationality doesn't define capability.
The example of our global CEOs like Sundar Pichai, Satya Nadela, etc are proof that they are frustrated by present system of employment, corruption in politics & industry, R&D funding.
For average citizens like us afriad or simply not intrested in physics, chemiistryk maths in exams, certainly it is tooooo complex. But DRDO/HAL/ADA/NAL, etc hire toppers kind of students who later do MTech & PhD. 1 of my college seniors worked on LCA in mid-2000s. He had high rank in GATE exam.

Else we should take a path like what Koreans did it with KFX. US or European handholding. But it will come with several *terms and conditions that will be okay for a American client state like S.Korea but not our policy makers and IAF

Unlike small countries like Korea divided by Communism Vs Capitalism, it is good that ours is a big tropical country we don't have to be an ally exactly of any big bossing country like USA or Russia. Our country has been a cash-cow for West who have sold arms to both sides of border.
I'm not fan of any country but Israel is also a good country to learn from, surrounded by enemies.

I am sure in whatever form the AMCA, TEDBF platforms are realized, it will be the best that our designers can come up with. The buck stops there. As we are discussing here, several compromises would've already made on the design and internal configuration.

That's your personal opinion & is acceptable but nothing can stop other's opinions, speculations, discussions. That's why this kind of forums, defence journalism, documentaries, etc exist.
This century will teach us a lesson on population control, economic regulation, education & employment reform, etc.

Dreams don't have limits. Reality is different.

There is a diff. b/w having potential & using that potential well. Every healthy human has equal potential but education, policies, opportunities, R&D, etc define success in reality.
I'm glad that "as we are discussing" at least a monarch family regime who kept us dependant on imports, is not ruling a democracy, i hope they don't come to power again.

And please. Hold the horses on these lets evolve Tejas MK2 into something like Sukhoi Checkmate and think of this twin engine design and now take-out one engine from that for this new derivative design like wild theories.

So you think that all other members & their opinions are wild & worthless & only your opinions are cultivated? Why are you personally attacking others & with what authority & qualification? Who wants to share what info & idea doesn't require permission from u or anybody.
Then it is best to shut down all forums like this & defence-journalism & stop wasting time & effort discussing when we all are non-DoD people.
Otherwise in a democracy, the govt. & all its units in all domains are questionable & answerable to citizens.
And practically speaking like an experienced engineer, every person in industry is accountable.
Freezing Russians in a popsicle land & scortched Israeli's in desert baren land are able to crack wonders & some people in this comfortable tropical country can't even tolerate some "wild" ideas also in an unofficial casual time-pass discussion forum. I wish this was a F2F live discussion.

 

[lcafanboy]

AMCA & TEDBF....

 

[flanker99]

AMCA & TEDBF....

I saw the video ..its a good beginners guide but nothing new apart from few new hurdels they had to overcome in tejas mk1

 

[Indx TechStyle]

So, any real updates on progress or project scrapped?

 

[Super Flanker]

So, any real updates on progress or project scrapped?

Yes, lately there have not been any updates but that doesn't mean Project has been scrapped. Project is still going on.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Yes, lately there have not been any updates but that doesn't mean Project has been scrapped. Project is still going on.

It doesn't look like ADA and HAL are focused on TEDBF and Tejas Mk.2 for now at least. Only new fighter we are going to see in near future is AMCA.

 

[Super Flanker]

It doesn't look like ADA and HAL are focused on TEDBF and Tejas Mk.2 for now at least. Only new fighter we are going to see in near future is AMCA.

Nah I will disagree with this wholeheartedly, ADA is focusing on all 3 aircrafts be it Tejas MK-2/TEDBF or AMCA, all 3 planes are equally important, Tejas MK-2 is important because it will be the main stream single Engine 4th generation fighter of IAF and it will be used as replacement of Mirage-2000/Jaguar and MiG-29. TEDBF is important for Indian Navy. And AMCA is also important.

From my point of view, even though all projects are being worked on simultaneously, AMCA is being given more priority.

 

[SavageKing456]

It doesn't look like ADA and HAL are focused on TEDBF and Tejas Mk.2 for now at least. Only new fighter we are going to see in near future is AMCA.

This is not true imo
The updates are coming less I agree but that's due to the postponed defexpo
However the project is going OK but expect delay

 

[Gessler]

This is just my view but TEDBF program was de-facto dead when IAF failed to show interest in the Air Force version (ORCA).

The Navy doesn't have the funds to bankroll a whole new fighter development all by itself, and the Govt isn't gonna fund a program like this just for 50-odd aiframes.

Lets moderate our expectations from this program.

 

[Adm Kenobi]

just for 50-odd aiframes.

?

 

[Gessler]

?

The requirement of TEDBF once you account for the 26 jets foreign purchase.

 

[Adm Kenobi]

The requirement of TEDBF once you account for the 26 jets foreign purchase.

Have you considered possible deployment at naval air stations? The req could go be more than 100 airframes (including 26 under MRCBF) in 2030s
More than 3 quarter TEDBF,

The projected cost for development & manufacturing of prototypes is around 14,000cr iirc?

 

[Gessler]

Have you considered possible deployment at naval air stations? The req could go be more than 100 airframes (including 26 under MRCBF) in 2030s
More than 3 quarter TEDBF,

The projected cost for development & manufacturing of prototypes is around 14,000cr iirc?

These shore-based requirements will vanish as soon as Maritime Theatre Command becomes a reality and MTC commander gains operational control of IAF assets deployed in peninsular India + A&N islands.

 

[BlackViking]

These shore-based requirements will vanish as soon as Maritime Theatre Command becomes a reality and MTC commander gains operational control of IAF assets deployed in peninsular India + A&N islands.

BiRa is dead, CDS is dead

 

[Vamsi]

The requirement of TEDBF once you account for the 26 jets foreign purchase.

This is just my view but TEDBF program was de-facto dead when IAF failed to show interest in the Air Force version (ORCA).

The Navy doesn't have the funds to bankroll a whole new fighter development all by itself, and the Govt isn't gonna fund a program like this just for 50-odd aiframes.

Lets moderate our expectations from this program.

Then why did they reduced the requirement to 26 from initial 57? They could have directly gone for 57 jets

 

[Adm Kenobi]

These shore-based requirements will vanish as soon as Maritime Theatre Command becomes a reality and MTC commander gains operational control of IAF assets deployed in peninsular India + A&N islands.

Debatable,

What other option (other than TEDBF) do you suggest?

 

[flanker99]

Then why did they reduced the requirement to 26 from initial 57? They could have directly gone for 57 jets

Paisa easier to go for g2g deal if money involved is less

 

[Adm Kenobi]

Then why did they reduced the requirement to 26 from initial 57? They could have directly gone for 57 jets

The first reduction (57 to 36) was due to budget constraints, the one from 36 to 26 is because of the requirement.

You don't need 36 fixed wings to operate Vikrant, 26 is optimal.

 

[Vamsi]

The first reduction (57 to 36) was due to budget constraints, the one from 36 to 26 is because of the requirement.

You don't need 36 fixed wings to operate Vikrant, 26 is optimal.

Then which one will replace remaining MiG-29Ks??

 

[Gessler]

Then why did they reduced the requirement to 26 from initial 57? They could have directly gone for 57 jets

No money.

Debatable,

What other option (other than TEDBF) do you suggest?

More of whichever wins MRCBF.

AFAIK, the SH production line will close by 2024 if no new orders are given by US Navy. If that happens (and if SH wins the 26 jets order now) we'll be left to receive 2nd hand USN jets or RAAF's 28 SH (which are fairly new, inducted 2010) which they want to replace with F-35 when the time comes to build an airwing for IAC-2.