TEDBF or ORCA Updates

[Bleh]

Tedbf is your MWF with a twin engine configuration and refined aerodynamics. They have studied it before for airforce but later moved on to AMCA back then it was MCA.

Nope. Either of these. Testing going on. Will be finalised by early-2021 (more likely to be the twin-engined NLCA Mk2 as IAF pulled out of ORCA).

BTW got any pictures of that MCA design?

 

[Flying Dagger]

Nope. Either of these. Testing going on. Will be finalised by early-2021 (more likely to be the twin-engined NLCA Mk2 as IAF pulled out of ORCA).
View attachment 60764

BTW got any pictures of that MCA design?

I don't sorry. IAF will jump in if they deliver tedbf in time.

 

[FalconZero]

hvt stated that it will most likely have delta wing + tail

He also shared the design of NLCA which was shelved to give a better idea :

 

[Paras.Sharma]

Anything over 115kN will eat up its range considerably.
MTOW will already be about 33-35 ton being conservative, if compared to same sized AMCA's 30ton with same. engines. As I explained before, absence of internal weapon bay will also allow more internal fuel than AMCA.
Oh yes. But I just used as an example of wing design difference. ORCA is rated to have 220-230kN max thrust compared to 150kN of Rafale. Plus ^above quote's points.

So I made some rough estimates:
Rafale emt. - 9.5-10t, MTOW - 25t
Su-30 emt. - 17.5t, MTOW - 38.5t
AMCA emt. - 12.5t. MTOW - 30t
ORCA emt. - 15t, MTOW 33-35t

Anyways, after 123 + 100-150 Tejas Mark 1 & 2 replace all the Mig-21 then Mig-27. Post-2035 AMCA & ORCA will start replacing Jaguars, then Mirage-2000, then older Mig-29.
Who knows what'll happen after 2050.

As per my understanding our AC can only handle 30 ton max aircraft load so TEDBFs MTOW should be less then or equal to 30 ton..

 

[sakalasiva]

How close TEDBF in comparison with Rafale in terms of compatibility.

 

[Trololo]

Repeating myself again: Let the STOBARs continue with the MiG 29Ks. Build CATOBARs for TEDBF, Rafale, or anything else. At some point the STOBARs might as well be converted to helicopter carriers when we build a marine corps equivalent, or increase the amphibious numbers in the army. The MiG 29K is a great aircraft for the subcontinent waters and a little beyond the Malacca region. But with its limited capabilities we shouldn't depend on these STOBARs to see us though a major conflict in the SCS. Also Rafales or F18s or TEDBFs on these STOBARs are pointless because they will be able to carry very little useful load.

 

[sakalasiva]

How close TEDBF in comparison with Rafale in terms of capabilities

 

[Bleh]

How close TEDBF in comparison with Rafale in terms of capabilities

You should've read old posts. That's what the thread is for.

Anyways here's the link to a rough estimation I made & got verified by several people in the know. https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/tedbf-or-orca-updates.81942/post-1718286

 

[Vamsi]

TEDBF's official design

 

[Bleh]

Essentially a stealthy version of that only....
@Kuntal

 

[Marliii]

Essentially a stealthy version of that only....
@Kuntal
View attachment 74140

That look like a stealthier version of euro fighter typhoon is there any information IAF will join this project?

 

[WarriorIndian]

I dont think TEDBF is going to get ahead of anything more than just a technology demonstrator. Navy wouldn't want a 4+ Gen TEDBF when AMCA is just around the corner.

 

[Marliii]

I dont think TEDBF is going to get ahead of anything more than just a technology demonstrator. Navy wouldn't want a 4+ Gen TEDBF when AMCA is just around the corner.

Who is gonna make a naval amca? Its an air force fighter and reconfiguring it for naval operations is gonna take a lot of time.reconfiguring fighters isn't that good most naval fighter jets are designed from scratch for naval operations .only exceptions are rafale m mih29k .if we do not develop TEDBF which plane will navy use for IAC 1 migs I really want all indian navy pilots going for patrols to return safely and not in body bags migs have to be replaced asap and AMCA naval version is at least 15 years away and TEDBF will be somewhat stealthy looking at these pics

 

[Killbot]

I dont think TEDBF is going to get ahead of anything more than just a technology demonstrator. Navy wouldn't want a 4+ Gen TEDBF when AMCA is just around the corner.

AMCA is not a carrier based fighter program. Most likely not going to be, either.
Do you think that the Navy Chief is stupid to have expressed the support that he expressed to TEDBF?

 

[Bleh]

..is there any information IAF will join this project?

Navy wouldn't want a 4+ Gen TEDBF when AMCA is just around the corner.

No & no.

IAF has their AMCA Mark1 & Mark2, they don't need another semi-stealth design beside Tejas Mark (this MWF might see a stealthier Mark3 descendant on similar lines).

IN knows they can't have AMCA. Unless tailor-made for naval ops, jets can't takeoff with meaningful battle loads from skyjumps, exactly what Mig-29K & Su-33 suffer from. Plus both AMCA & TEDBF are parallel projects, scheduled for 1st flight in 2024-5 & 2026 respectively.

 

[Killbot]

No & no.

IAF has their AMCA Mark1 & Mark2, they don't need another semi-stealth design beside MWF.

IN knows they can't have AMCA. Unless tailor-made for naval ops, jets can't takeoff with meaningful battle loads from skyjumps, exactly what Mig-29K & Su-33 suffer from.

Based on the render, can you estimate the frontal RCS of the aircraft? Could you give a figure for TEDBF, considering the airframe will have a significant amount of composite, based on what we can see from Tejas series?

 

[Marliii]

No & no.

IAF has their AMCA Mark1 & Mark2, they don't need another semi-stealth design beside MWF.

IN knows they can't have AMCA. Unless tailor-made for naval ops, jets can't takeoff with meaningful battle loads from skyjumps, exactly what Mig-29K & Su-33 suffer from.

Bleh what are the design changes from older design to the new design of TEDBF?

 

[Bleh]

Based on the render, can you estimate the frontal RCS of the aircraft? Could you give a figure for TEDBF,

It's obvious that they're building on the Rafale... even @Kuntal was surprised how much it resembles his Rafale altered ORCA render. So a safe bet would be between Rafale & AMCA.
0.1m² would be a conservative & achievable target (expect frontal stealth tho, with .01-.05m² RCS).

Bleh what are the design changes from older design to the new design of TEDBF?

They're dead no older design. That above one I made by extrapolating the NLCA Mark2 design with MWH canard layout... This TEDBF seems very close to that, only with some stealth shapings.

Had on these two, I'm making a orthographic projection (top-front-side views) for the next render... Will share here too.

 

[Marliii]

It's obvious that they're building on the Rafale (even @Kuntal was surprised how much it resembles his Rafale altered ORCA render). So a safe bet would be between Rafale & AMCA.
0.1m² would be a conservative & achievable target.



They're dead no older design. That above one I made by extrapolating the NLCA Mark2 design with MWH canard layout... This TEDBF seems very close to that, only with some stealth shapings.

Had on these two, I'm making a orthographic projection (top-front-side views) for the next render... Will share here too.

Bleh there were some recent reports of jf17 RCS being 10m sq from bulgarian source what is your estimate on this?

 

[Bleh]

Bleh there were some recent reports of jf17 RCS being 10m sq from bulgarian source what is your estimate on this?

Su-30MKI has RCS of 20m² as per official statement. FC-1 was designed to be cheap, not stealthy. It has bloody exposed metal hinges on cockpit canopy.. Its RCS can be anything!
Blk3 should have it a bit lower but not much. Similqr to Mig-29 modern versions, about 5m².