TEDBF or ORCA Updates

[aerokan]

Tailfins like F22 and better lift like NLCA using levcons (like Su57) without the disadvantages of canards.
I always wanted to see Levcons with tailfins for our delta planes with TVS (where possible) instead of delta-canards to achieve high AoA instead of increased RCS of delta canards. I am actually surprised to see it coming true

If anyone still have doubts... don't forget that we are at the forefront being involved in one way or the other of the only 2 fighters in the world which actually have levcons (Su57 and NLCA).

@Bleh Consider completing the triangle shape in your renders (existing tejas Mk1 wing + moving levcon like Su57).

 

[Bleh]

Greater pitching authority?
Additional lift producing ability?

Close coupled canards would help in increasing lift, not tailplanes.

@Bleh Consider completing the triangle shape in your renders (existing tejas Mk1 wing + moving levcon like Su57).

How & which one?.. Do elaborate.

 

[WolfPack86]

MOD asks IAF to consider joining ORCA/TEDBF Program headed by Navy

The Ministry of Defence (MOD) of India, recently cleared Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Indian Navy proposed Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) for a carrier-based fighter jet worth around 13000 crores, which has set the ball rolling to commence design and developmental phase for a new 24.5-tonne fighter jet which will replace Mig-29K fleet from 2032 onwards. idrw.org has been informed that MOD also has asked Indian Air Force (IAF) to consider an Air force deviate which ADA has proposed based on the TEDBF also called as Omni-Role Combat Aircraft (ORCA) to make the whole program financially viable and also share costs in its development phase which both MOD and Indian Navy will contribute for the marked 13000 cores sought by the ADA for its development. ADA has proposed Twin-engine Medium Class Omni-Role Combat Aircraft (ORCA) as an Air force deviate for IAF which will be 1.5 tonnes lighter than the TEDBF and will have Maximum take-off weight of 23 tonnes which is still 5.5 tonnes more than the proposed MWF-Tejas Mk2. ORCA psychically will be same and share the same engine and design characters of the TEDBF but will come equipped with Uttam AESA Fire Control Radar (FCR) more fine-tuned for Airforce needs along with other avionics which will be similar to the MWF-Tejas Mk2 raising commonality between two jets to 60% as per information provided to idrw.org. The Indian Air Force (IAF) recently told the government that “it is committed” to buying nearly 300 indigenously made fighters and basic trainers from the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which included another 10 Squadrons of MWF-Tejas Mk2 and 36 Advance Medium Combat (AMCA) Mk1 fighters along with 83 indigenously made Tejas Mark-1A fighters. ORCA nowhere figured in that list proposed by IAF. Defense Analysts in India have been calling to cancel fighter jet procurement for 114 jets from foreign manufacture and instead place an order for 36 additional Dassault Rafale and make the rest of the numbers with either MWF-Tejas Mk2 or ORCA. Defense Analysts Ranesh Rajan speaking to idrw.org said that, for IAF to support 4 active fighter jet programs (Tejas Mk1A, Mk2, ORCA, AMCA), it will need to cut its losses and cancel its plans to procure 114 jets from an International OEM so that it can make space for ORCA and AMCA both from 2030 onwards and Private sector participation in the production of this two jets should be must for IAF to get on board.

MOD asks IAF to consider joining ORCA/TEDBF Program headed by Navy – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[Karthi]

 

[Synergy]

Perhaps navy wanted to retire mig29k earlier with imports. By 2027-28 probably. ( As it will take that much time to procure either f18 or rafale M).

ott : what's the basic problem with MiG 29K? it's the problem of only MiG 29K or whole MiG 29 fleet?

 

[IndianHawk]

ott : what's the basic problem with MiG 29K? it's the problem of only MiG 29K or whole MiG 29 fleet?

Mig29 K had structural issues when it lands on carrier it needed long time in maintenance. Most of these issues were solved ( perhaps with more spare parts).

Airforce mig29 had no such issue and are formidable after upg upgrade.

 

[IndianHawk]

ADA has proposed Twin-engine Medium Class Omni-Role Combat Aircraft (ORCA) as an Air force deviate for IAF which will be 1.5 tonnes lighter than the TEDBF and will have Maximum take-off weight of 23 tonnes which is still 5.5 tonnes more than the proposed MWF-Tejas Mk2.

So tedbf will be 24.5 tons and orca 23 tons.
Is it confirmed or idrw as usual doing guess work?

If orca is restricted to 23 tons it will beat eurofighter typhoon in twr. And will easily be among the best air superiority fighters out there.

other avionics which will be similar to the MWF-Tejas Mk2 raising commonality between two jets to 60% as per information provided to idrw.org. The Indian Air Force (IAF) recently told the government that

Common sense . Most internals will be same between mwf / orca / tedbf . It will save whole lot of money plus upgrades would also be very similar.

Commonality between orca and tedbf will be even higher at almost 85-90 % .
Like I said before not building orca would be stupid.

 

[Kuntal]

View attachment 52904
Explaination of my specification estimates:

• Length adjusted for wings to start exactly where canards end, like in that official silhouette. No gap. No overlap. Turned out slightly longer than Rafale, unclear how much. 15m+
• No change in wings, but fuselage of Rafale. Similar wing area of MWF & Rafale, less overall wingspan than latter. 9m+
• MTOW should increase owing to 15kN & 40kN greater dry & wet thrust overall.
• Minor range increae possible due to more internal fuel. 50:50

@Kuntal is one of your TEDBF concepts like this?

View attachment 52904
Explaination of my specification estimates:

• Length adjusted for wings to start exactly where canards end, like in that official silhouette. No gap. No overlap. Turned out slightly longer than Rafale, unclear how much. 15m+
• No change in wings, but fuselage of Rafale. Similar wing area of MWF & Rafale, less overall wingspan than latter. 9m+
• MTOW should increase owing to 15kN & 40kN greater dry & wet thrust overall.
• Minor range increae possible due to more internal fuel. 50:50

@Kuntal is one of your TEDBF concepts like this?

Yes. But the wing design is different. Wing span is greater than the MWF, and it's purely delta wing without any sweep in the front section.

 

[ARVION]

Kuntal Biswas Sir's ji aap ka kauti kauti dhanya waad's .

@Kuntal

 

[aditya10r]

View attachment 54580View attachment 54581View attachment 54582View attachment 54583

Kuntal Biswas Sir's ji aap ka kauti kauti dhanya waad's .

@Kuntal

 

[ARVION]

View attachment 54580View attachment 54581View attachment 54582View attachment 54583

Kuntal Biswas Sir's ji aap ka kauti kauti dhanya waad's .

Sorry's to say's , but it look's like a ,

Dasault's Mirage 4000 with a DSI's and a Canarde's .

 

[A chauhan]

View attachment 54580View attachment 54581View attachment 54582View attachment 54583

Kuntal Biswas Sir's ji aap ka kauti kauti dhanya waad's .

@Kuntal

Fabulous job ! I guess it will be the nearest possible match of ORCA

More a match for TEDBF @Kuntal

 

[aerokan]

Fabulous job ! I guess it will be the nearest possible match of ORCA

More a match for TEDBF @Kuntal

Doubt it.. They look super shiny and all and looks beautiful but it hurts my eyes whenever i see canards overlapping the wings of all these renders coming out for a long time now.. If the canards are over the wings and overlapping..the canard movement is very very limited and how can they effectively redirect/push/control the airflow? Leading edges of Canards and wings at different angles and not being parallel will eff up the frontal stealth or low observability in this case. Incase of twin engine config.. the inlets and engines are as straight as i can see which will expose the engine blades. If anyone sees it differently.. enlighten me.

 

[A chauhan]

Doubt it.. They look super shiny and all and looks beautiful but it hurts my eyes whenever i see canards overlapping the wings of all these renders coming out for a long time now.. If the canards are over the wings and overlapping..the canard movement is very very limited and how can they effectively redirect/push/control the airflow? Leading edges of Canards and wings at different angles and not being parallel will eff up the frontal stealth or low observability in this case. Incase of twin engine config.. the inlets and engines are as straight as i can see which will expose the engine blades. If anyone sees it differently.. enlighten me.

This is ADA's preliminary design, changes may follow, close coupled canards act as lerx (Su57). However later they will set it like Rafale it seems.

 

[Kchontha]

Mid air refueling prob should be a retractable one......

 

[Karthi]

Doubt it.. They look super shiny and all and looks beautiful but it hurts my eyes whenever i see canards overlapping the wings of all these renders coming out for a long time now.. If the canards are over the wings and overlapping..the canard movement is very very limited and how can they effectively redirect/push/control the airflow? Leading edges of Canards and wings at different angles and not being parallel will eff up the frontal stealth or low observability in this case. Incase of twin engine config.. the inlets and engines are as straight as i can see which will expose the engine blades. If anyone sees it differently.. enlighten me.

You feel like that Probably because of the angle , Canards will have enough room for movements , More over ORCA is not a Stealth aircraft . It can achieve stealth through Electronic measures and can use Radar absorbing materials and paints .

 

[Emperor Kalki]

This is ADA's preliminary design, changes may follow, close coupled canards act as lerx (Su57). However later they will set it like Rafale it seems.

ADA has not released any official design for TEDBF. It just got an approval.

 

[aerokan]

This is ADA's preliminary design, changes may follow, close coupled canards act as lerx (Su57). However later they will set it like Rafale it seems.

Su57 and LCA Navy has LEVCON's... (not exactly LERX) ..only 2 planes in the world with advancements like that)
Since what we are seeing are only renders.. i am hopeful that we follow up on the advancements we made on LEVCON's and 3D wing design without going back. Let's see if we progress or go back.

 

[A chauhan]

Su57 and LCA Navy has LEVCON's... (not exactly LERX) ..only 2 planes in the world with advancements like that)
Since what we are seeing are only renders.. i am hopeful that we follow up on the advancements we made on LEVCON's and 3D wing design without going back. Let's see if we progress or go back.

I just gave example to quote pros of CCC didn't exactly mean that. Just that.

 

[aerokan]

You feel like that Probably because of the angle , Canards will have enough room for movements , More over ORCA is not a Stealth aircraft . It can achieve stealth through Electronic measures and can use Radar absorbing materials and paints .

Not with the renders i am seeing. But i remember reading official statement saying that there will be no gap, no overlap between wings and canards. These renders are overlapping. I don't think my eyes are bluffing due to angle. I checked that so many times before i raised this issue.. before as well. Let's see if anyone else sees no overlap like you.

Yes..ORCA is not a stealth aircraft but it's Low Observable. Or atleast i hope ORCA don't go back from Tejas LO since it is not finalized. We can change a good number of things over the life of an aircraft but the physical design is something which is not going to be modified that easily. If we are to be spending heavily on Radar absorbing materials and stealth RAM paints to achieve LO.. then why can't we just go with 5th gen stealth frames instead and call it a day? And electronic counter measures are overrated.. Rafale hides it's engines nicely without impacting it's airflow. That's design optimization. ORCA needs design optimization.. not costly paints.

Also ORCA's design is nowhere gonna look anything like the renders that are getting posted.