TEDBF or ORCA Updates

Defcon 1

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Several jets like Gripen & T-50 run production based on American engines. They'll sell us F-414... especially guaranteed if we select F-18 (just gotta copy-paste its butt then), but otherwise too.

What we should do is get ToT for F-414 EPE & start building it in house, as well as grow 120kN+ engine based on that, instead of wasting time with Snecma whose own engine is much less powered.
F414 EPE doesn't exist Today. Developing it would be a significant financial commitment. Considering the fact that DRDO was too stupid to shell out 500 million to fix kaveri with the help of french, I doubt they will be will to shell even Higher to pay for development and TOT of f414 EPE.
 

HariPrasad-1

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We should try to make it a stealthier aircraft like EFT and Rafale. We can make this one frontal stealth at least. It will have many highly advance stuff and great potency except stealth. We must ensure that its RCS is somewhat comparable to best 4+++ generation aircraft available at that time.
 

Bleh

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...I doubt they will be will to shell even Higher to pay for development and TOT of f414 EPE.
I doubt that too... especially with K-10. But the french's own engine is far underpowered than GE ones!
If we're planning to use F414 in 200-300 MWF, AMCA Mk1, ORCA/TEDBF it'd be wise for GOI to get ToT of it instead of direct import & build ahead based on that (like China did with WS-10).

It is time to Compare ORCA with Su 30 MKI.
Too early... From what's available & compared from same engined AMCA, its MTOW should be ~25t with payload ~8-9t. Compared to MWF (~7t) empty weight should be atleast 10t which leaves ~5-6t for fuel.

I don't see why AF will be interested in this when they'll have AMCA with same stats & specs. Navy wanted that too, but until AF AMCA it's flown & flight-tested, they can't start developing a naval version of it.
 

Defcon 1

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I doubt that too... especially with K-10. But the french's own engine is far underpowered than GE ones!
If we're planning to use F414 in 200-300 MWF, AMCA Mk1, ORCA/TEDBF it'd be wise for GOI to get ToT of it instead of direct import & build ahead based on that (like China did with WS-10).
.
TOT cost will come out of DRDO budget. Buying cost will come out of IAF budget. Departmentalism to f*ck procurement again
 

Bleh

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TOT cost will come out of DRDO budget. Buying cost will come out of IAF budget. Departmentalism to f*ck procurement again
Budgets can be allocated... But even now, IAF still owes HAL ₹20,000 crores!!!
The jets need to be cheaper & ToT of F414 (whatever version) would not only be a good backup, but a more promising prospect of developing 110kN engine. GTRE-Safran collaboration over K-10 is a gamble.

Lack of vision in leadership of is what's been fucking India.
 

Bleh

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@Kuntal This ORCA model clearly resembles Tejas AF version...View attachment 41470 ...Will you be interested in making one based on the LCA Navy Mark2 (latest delta design, not one with tail-stabilisors)?

I'll provide some reference image... just get rid of the LEVCONs & add canards, diverterless intakes, extra engin, fuel tanks etc.
Its belly is already widened. 13 hardpoints like above. View attachment 41471

View attachment 41475
View attachment 41472
View attachment 41474

If you can ignore the tail-stabilisors, same design from different angle. View attachment 41473View attachment 41476
Below tailed delta version, uncranked leading-edge.
Dz8cmNGXQAABx1e.jpg
 
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HariPrasad-1

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ORCA is more like Indian equivalent of Rafael than Su-30.
I am not talking about weight class. I am talking about capabilities. It can carry almost same pay load (May be 1 ton less than MKI). It will have higher range (Ultra long range) . It will have more advance features including AESA and top class weapons. It will have much lower operating cot and life cycle cost than MKI with same or even better capabilities.
 

HariPrasad-1

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I don't see why AF will be interested in this when they'll have AMCA with same stats & specs. Navy wanted that too, but until AF AMCA it's flown & flight-tested, they can't start developing a naval version of it.
I had same question but it is said that this one will cost a lot lower than AMCA. It will have ultra long range. It can have lower RCS than Rafale. If its electronics are better, it can prove to be better than Rafale. By the time this comes, we will have to look for other option as stop gap measure.
 

IndianHawk

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I still don't understand what type of guarantee we have that the Americans will sell us enough f 414's. And what about spares and support for the engines? With what confidence are we going forward with MCA and ORCA?
The only guarantee is to fast track our indegenious efforts. Americans know that if they stop selling us engines all that money will go towards indigenous engine.
 

IndianHawk

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I am not talking about weight class. I am talking about capabilities. It can carry almost same pay load (May be 1 ton less than MKI). It will have higher range (Ultra long range) . It will have more advance features including AESA and top class weapons. It will have much lower operating cot and life cycle cost than MKI with same or even better capabilities.
Orca will compare to su30 just like rafale does. Orca is basically an Indian rafale .

I called this before. They are developing mwf as mini rafale and now orca as full rafale . Only much cheaper.
 

IndianHawk

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I don't see why AF will be interested in this when they'll have AMCA with same stats & specs. Navy wanted that too, but until AF AMCA it's flown & flight-tested, they can't start developing a naval version of it.
Amca unless produced in huge numbers will be very very costly . Plus amca will take longer to mature as it requires new engine , stealth shaping , new weapons to fit in internal bays. Orca can be delivered on time thus reducing risks of amca delay. Orca weaponary and avionics will be common with mwf only larger airframe is required.
 

HariPrasad-1

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Orca will compare to su30 just like rafale does. Orca is basically an Indian rafale .

I called this before. They are developing mwf as mini rafale and now orca as full rafale . Only much cheaper.
You guys repeatedly compare weight class while I compare functionality. Su 30 MKI has higher range than Rafale. ORCA will higher range than MKI. Its payload shall be comparable. I only do not know whether it can perform Cobra maneuver and carry Brahmos. In rest all parameters, it will surpass MKI. Yes,it will be comparable to Rafale with higher range. Like Tejas MK1 is a single engine fighter capable of MMRCA role, ORCA will be a medium weight category fighter with capabilities of heavy fighter.
 

Aaj ka hero

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Did anybody posted this?
Everybody though already knew government was thinking on this line but I am not hopeful regarding the outcome of this deal.
Something is missing, if fighter planes numbers are to be filled up then simply we need tejas second line and if keeping enemies at bay is required right now untill tejas variants come online then their is NO NEED for 115 large orders repeat order of 36 can do.
But for me, if no tangible transfer happen then this deal must be canceled and money must be spend then on ORCA and k-10.
That will be more useful.
As one thing I like about other forces is that they try to maximize outcome from whatever they have,I mean to say india must buy more a-330 awacs in place of planes and refuelers that's what we need right now if they have money to spent fifteen billion dollars.
ORCA is the perfect product that can be developed according to IAF need.
 
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IndianHawk

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You guys repeatedly compare weight class while I compare functionality. Su 30 MKI has higher range than Rafale. ORCA will higher range than MKI. Its payload shall be comparable. I only do not know whether it can perform Cobra maneuver and carry Brahmos. In rest all parameters, it will surpass MKI. Yes,it will be comparable to Rafale with higher range. Like Tejas MK1 is a single engine fighter capable of MMRCA role, ORCA will be a medium weight category fighter with capabilities of heavy fighter.
Well I meant functionally orca will be able to do most of what su30 can do just like rafale can.

Orca won't need to carry bramhos as bramhos ng will be available to it . Also since orca will have two f414 it's twr will be better than typhoon. It will be a hot rod !! With more thrust available than either typhoon or rafale.

I'm not sure how its range will surpass mki ? Does super hornet surpass su30 range??
 

IndianHawk

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Since an F-35's EOTS-like targeting system is being pursued for AMCA, perhaps it can be used on ORCA first, hence ditching the IRST and sparing a hardpoint for more weaponry.

Irst will be ahead of cockpit so removing it doesn't free any pylon !! Perhaps you mean removing target pod / sensor pod with eots. That would unnecessarily complicat things for orca which is non stealth and has no dearth of pylons or payload. 12 pylons apart from pod are enough especially with multi rack for aam and bombs.
 

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