TEDBF or ORCA Updates

[IndianHawk]

Amazing Amazing Amazing , Wish for ORCAs sanction also

Read my post above . Air chief was in meeting too. Orca will definitely come. Airforce can't abandone rafale class design!!

There is 90% commonality between rafale m and rafale c. Tedbf and orca will be twins .

 

[Bleh]

I knew it since hv thakur made it his profile cover !!
If tedbf is coming then hv thakurs words about orca will also be true. It won't take much effort from tedbf to orca just have to lighten the Landing gear and some less strength / lighter parts. And some optimization for air superiority.

You know I've read that Rafale was designed like that too, originally for the Navy. Rafale-M came first then AF version was developed from it.

I feel with this we will have one more production line owned by private company. We should have one.

LCA Tejas private partnership is already to reach 45% soon. Dependance on outsiders should not be more than 50% and definitely not a critical components, only easily replaced ones or else the price would spike (every single partners is trying to make profit).

 

[IndianHawk]

It's not about technology, it's all about keeping the shrill of DDM down when first j31 lands in Pak. If we can manage the doom and gloom then, what you said will be true.
Now if DDM shows how Pak 5th gen is evading radar, downing out Jets and bombing out cities via a very cheaply produced animation, narrative will be built towards 'emergency' procurement of F35 or Su57 or anything with a 5th gen tag.

That narrative has always been there. That doesn't affect operational decision. Even ddm knows rafale blows out Chinese semi stealth out of water.

We walked away from fgfa !

Anyway AMCA prototype is supposed to fly by 2024. That will silent everyone .

 

[IndianHawk]

You know I've read that Rafale was designed like that too, originally for the Navy. Rafale-M came first then AF version was developed from it.

Yup that's the right way to do it. Naval jets can easily be converted to airforce jets . Otherway around is royal mess.

 

[IndianHawk]

I feel with this we will have one more production line owned by private company. We should have one.

For mwf and other jets Hal will only be lead integrator. Everything else will be build by private side.

 

[Suryavanshi]

So folding wings for TEDF or not?
It was rumored that TEDF will have sweep wing and dsi intake.

 

[yoggs]

That narrative has always been there. That doesn't affect operational decision. Even ddm knows rafale blows out Chinese semi stealth out of water.

We walked away from fgfa !

Anyway AMCA prototype is supposed to fly by 2024. That will silent everyone .

Also IAF has realized the advantage of having an indigenous platform. Recently IAF said that Tejas performance was best amongst IAF inventory in the war games.

 

[IndianHawk]

So folding wings for TEDF or not?
It was rumored that TEDF will have sweep wing and dsi intake.

3 designs are going through cfd analysis.
If they could keep wings small enough to fit vikramaditya / vikrant lifts then there is no need for folding wings. If they can't then wing folding is necessary.

 

[Bleh]

Yup that's the right way to do it. Naval jets can easily be converted to airforce jets . Otherway around is royal mess.

Yup. Also at this point we can guarantee there'll be no Naval AMCA version!.. And that will be wise.

Not only it would be far heavier, with already small wings not letting it take off skyjump with anti-ship strike load, but also that would take atleast upto 2030. AMCA & ORCA seems pretty much similarly times at 2025-26.
Nor will stealth even be part of the equation with 2 Brahmos-NG on both wings of the jet.

 

[IndianHawk]

So folding wings for TEDF or not?
It was rumored that TEDF will have sweep wing and dsi intake.

DSi intake could be added to mwf itself.

 

[IndianHawk]

Yup. At this pointbwe can guarantee there'll be no Naval AMCA version... And that will be wise.
Not only it would be far heavier, with already small wings not letting it take off with anti-ship strike load, but also that would take atleast upto 2030. AMCA & ORCA seems pretty much similarly times at 2025-26.
Nor will stealth even be part of the equation with 2 Brahmos-NG on both wings of the jet.

Stealth is overrated for naval jets. Read about f35B can't go supersonic without damaging stealth coating over sea.

And you are absolutely correct anti ship missile will only grow in size as they increase range and speed in future.

And AMCA with 6 ton internal fuel will be able to shoot down any air to air conflict over Indian ocean.

 

[IndianHawk]

Also we will go for a naval stealth jet after 2030s otherwise our designers won't have much work!!

Right now we are designing
Mwf
Tedbf / orca
Amca
Aura
Rustom 2 .

Simultaneously.

But all these will be done ( design part) by 2030.
Barring only amca mk2.
We need 3-4 more things to design to keep people employed. Lol.

 

[Suryavanshi]

I have no doubt we can make naval AMCA but there is no need right now.
Aircraft Carriers jets are supposed to perform anti ship and Bombing role, if u want paylaod u will have to sacrifice stealth and Vice versa.
In the future after AMCA program matures we might juts field a few prototype if needed.

 

[aditya10r]

We need 3-4 more things to design to keep people employed. Lol.

A good transport fleet will be required post 2030.
Our il-76s are getting too old and our An-32s need immediate replacement.There is room for more C-130/Airbus A-400M class aircraft.Plus our civil aviation sector will grow meaning requirement for Airbus a330/a350 type jets.

___________________________________________________________

This timeline(2020-25) is the best time to kickstart such a program.A c-17,c-130 and An-32 replacement aircraft.Later such skills can be used to build civil aviation industry.

 

[aditya10r]

I have no doubt we can make naval AMCA but there is no need right now.
Aircraft Carriers jets are supposed to perform anti ship and Bombing role, if u want paylaod u will have to sacrifice stealth and Vice versa.
In the future after AMCA program matures we might juts field a few prototype if needed.

A stealth platform on carrier sounds like a disaster.
The carrier wont have the facilities to maintain and an expensive jet up and running.Plus stealth jet which has shit payload and range launched from a carrier will cut it range and payload even more.

BAD IDEA

 

[Bleh]

I have no doubt we can make naval AMCA but there is no need right now.
Aircraft Carriers jets are supposed to perform anti ship and Bombing role, if u want paylaod u will have to sacrifice stealth and Vice versa.
In the future after AMCA program matures we might juts field a few prototype if needed.

What we meant was, it would take drastic design changes while modification work on that too can only start after AMCA is flown & at least some basic aerodynamic tests are completed.

A stealth platform on carrier sounds like a disaster.
The carrier wont have the facilities to maintain and an expensive jet up and running.Plus stealth jet which has shit payload and range launched from a carrier will cut it range and payload even more.

BAD IDEA

Those are challenges that may be overcome in future decades... with larger carriers, new material & RAM technology, stealthy missiles & external pods & drop tanks. Who can say, right?

 

[Suryavanshi]

A good transport fleet will be required post 2030.
Our il-76s are getting too old and our An-32s need immediate replacement.There is room for more C-130/Airbus A-400M class aircraft.Plus our civil aviation sector will grow meaning requirement for Airbus a330/a350 type jets.

___________________________________________________________

This timeline(2020-25) is the best time to kickstart such a program.A c-17,c-130 and An-32 replacement aircraft.Later such skills can be used to build civil aviation industry.

We also have heli buisness going on.
Optimize LUH for Civilian purpose.
HCH in the future.
SeaHawk like platform for the Navy.
IMRH for militray and civilian purpose.

God I love this.

 

[IndianHawk]

A good transport fleet will be required post 2030.
Our il-76s are getting too old and our An-32s need immediate replacement.There is room for more C-130/Airbus A-400M class aircraft.Plus our civil aviation sector will grow meaning requirement for Airbus a330/a350 type jets.

___________________________________________________________

This timeline(2020-25) is the best time to kickstart such a program.A c-17,c-130 and An-32 replacement aircraft.Later such skills can be used to build civil aviation industry.

We could take a short cut by joining kc390 program with Embraer .

If we take over Embraer we will have a regional jet ej145 as well as a military transporter kc390.

Otherwise we are anyway going forward with saras 2 and RTA 70/90.
Transporter are far far easier then fighter jets.

Our designers after developing lca , mwf ( design froze) and tedbf will find transporter design as paid holidays.

Civilian passenger jet is more difficult as it will have to beat competition in fuel efficiency and maintenance only then it could sell.

 

[IndianHawk]

A stealth platform on carrier sounds like a disaster.
The carrier wont have the facilities to maintain and an expensive jet up and running.Plus stealth jet which has shit payload and range launched from a carrier will cut it range and payload even more.

BAD IDEA

Yup f35 has flying costs of 35k usd per hour . On aircraft carrier it will be even higher. And then it is compromised in everything from speed to Manuevering to payload.

 

[aditya10r]

Yup f35 has flying costs of 35k usd per hour . On aircraft carrier it will be even higher. And then it is compromised in everything from speed to Manuevering to payload.

ITS A FLYING SCAM.