Taliban Takeover of Afghanistan 2021: Impact on India

Anandhu Krishna

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1971 war was fought in December. While advances in that weather may make offensives in Kargil, Drass near impossible.
But it definitely possible to multiple sectors like Poonch, Rajouri, Akhnoor, Uri etc.

Don't forget Azerbaijan, a small nation with 10-15 million population lost nearly 3000 troops to gain 70% of Karabakh but still pressed on with it.

Its something we should have done in 71 or even in 99. Indhira had the plan to go deeper into pok in 71. She didnt coz of US pressure. Its really pathetic we are still folding to the same pressure.
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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1971 war was fought in December. While advances in that weather may make offensives in Kargil, Drass near impossible.
But it definitely possible to multiple sectors like Poonch, Rajouri, Akhnoor, Uri etc.

Don't forget Azerbaijan, a small nation with 10-15 million population lost nearly 3000 troops to gain 70% of Karabakh but still pressed on with it.
Where did we fight in 1971 ?.did we fight in kashmir, no we did in plains of Rajasthan and river plains of Bengal.
Not in kashmir, no major battle as far as I remember.
 

jackprince

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1971 war was fought in December. While advances in that weather may make offensives in Kargil, Drass near impossible.
But it definitely possible to multiple sectors like Poonch, Rajouri, Akhnoor, Uri etc.

Don't forget Azerbaijan, a small nation with 10-15 million population lost nearly 3000 troops to gain 70% of Karabakh but still pressed on with it.
What kind of battle happened in 1971 in mountains, tell me? In 1971 war, the battles were fought in plains - mostly and trust me, December is ideal time to play on the fields in plains of Bengal as well as in Punjab.

You want our forces to face uncertain supply lines due to snow in a campaign during December?

We are not Azarbeijan and to us, squandering precious lives of our troops for little gain is wasteful and should remain so.
 

Mikesingh

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Any chance that Indian Air Force jets currently stationed in Tajikistan ?
Yes! At Farkhor and Ayni Air Bases - MiG 29, C130, and Su 30 squadrons.

The question is whether these assets will now be used to help the Resistance led by Masood at Panjshir or is it too late? We should have provided air support in the initial stages when the Talibs were concentrating to launch offensives into the Panjshir valley. Looks like we have missed the bus by doing nothing but just sitting on our haunches watching the scene unfold which the Taliban seem to be getting control of finally.

It's strange that no one in the West is coming forward to help the fighters of Panjshir, the last hold-out against the world's most dangerous terrorist groups including the Al Qaeda which is helping the Taliban, as well as the Pak forces to capture Panjshir.
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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What kind of battle happened in 1971 in mountains, tell me? In 1971 war, the battles were fought in plains - mostly and trust me, December is ideal time to play on the fields in plains of Bengal as well as in Punjab.

You want our forces to face uncertain supply lines due to snow in a campaign during December?

We are not Azarbeijan and to us, squandering precious lives of our troops for little gain is wasteful and should remain so.
Precisely, india was defensive in the west and offensive in the east.
There was very little war in kashmir to begin with , heck we waited till December so that chinks cannot intervene in the war .
So December is not a ideal time to fight in mountains.
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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Yes! At Farkhor and Ayni Air Bases - MiG 29, C130, and Su 30 squadrons.

The question is whether these assets will now be used to help the Resistance led by Masood at Panjshir or is it too late? We should have provided air support in the initial stages when the Talibs were concentrating to launch offensives into the Panjshir valley. Looks like we have missed the bus by doing nothing but just sitting on our haunches watching the scene unfold which the Taliban seem to be getting control of finally.

It's strange that no one in the West is coming forward to help the fighters of Panjshir, the last hold-out against the world's most dangerous terrorist groups including the Al Qaeda which is helping the Taliban, as well as the Pak forces to capture Panjshir.
Sir , I have a question.
Do we really keep fighter squadrons there as of now ?
I dont think so
 

Jimih

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The world expected ANA to act like how Saleh's forces acted in Panjshir, the takeover by taliban was a given but it wouldn't have been easy at all, like it was for Taliban to take Panjshir.
The repercussions of Panjshir massacre will be felt for years and will not end positively for Taliban. It will have echos of 1979 Herat uprising.

I expect a chapter of long civil war to begin, we will see regular skirmishes with time, before the full blown civil war.
 

jackprince

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I really like your posts buddy and have been following them closely but I differ with you on this particular point. Long post, bear with me.

Current Fallout -
- With the Telebunnies winning and resistance wiped out, India has lost whatever little leverage it had. For example, if there was a sharing of power with NA and NA had Indian backing, India would also have leverage in the high table via NA.

- The Paki + Turkey + China axis will be supremely emboldened by this win, particularly if rumors are true that Pak has helped Telebunnies win this round. This is coming after Armenian win and this newfound confidence will be channeled against India next and her destruction.

- Pak, Turkey, and China literally own Telebunny a$$ now. I'm sure the support didn't come for free - rather absolute allegiance to the nexus. Also, Pak gets its strategic depth + US weapon systems left behind. Strategic depth is important - for example, what if Pak bases some of its nuclear assets out of Afg, in case of total annihilation of mainland or shift its terror training to Afg to avoid FATF sanctions. It's basically freehand for Chinese to exploit resources and Pak to leverage Afg for nefarious designs.

- India has had historical ties with the Northern Alliance, even from days when shit was really bad. We never let NA really die off and what a sad way to end it.

- Everyone and their dad will take India and Russia as cucks now. Not that we care but it emboldens the enemy to try all sorts of misadventure. We have superpower aspirations however we are always scared to play it big, take major decisions, or play it dirty. This is not how superpowers act.

What we could have done -
- I too feel all this talk of taking POK and opening support route etc. are bunkum. We can't make plans based on future if/else scenarios which are highly questionable.

- However, Tajiks seem to have had access to Panjshir via aerial route and this route would have been vital. Telebunnies gave enough time to the NA to prepare, I think cos of doubts if they can take the NA head on. Hence the Paki intervention. This time was crucial. We could have sent men and material to prepare the NA defenses (we are champs with mountain and jungle/guerilla warfare).

- Taking the Tajiks + Russia into confidence (basically play a leadership role) and keeping the airspace open. If that means basing some SU-30s in Tajik airbase and threatening PAK with retribution, if they bring their air cavalry, so be it.

- Would be a good testing ground for our anti-drone technologies as well. Now I know, we don't have enough yet for our own armed forces. Now this is the problem, why no planning in advance? We never foresee such security scenarios and are always in reactionary mode.

- Keep LOC hot. The ceasefire was nonsense and the moment Telebunnies get settled, Pak will throw it out of the window anyways. Give them threats, that if they do any misadventure in Afg, we will cross LOC and do a land grab. Fcuk what the world things - the retribution message should be loud and clear to them.

- Finally, try to hold NA defenses as long as possible so that a ceasefire and doldrum are reached. Paki + Telebunnies are forced to negotiate with NA.

PAK is our nemesis and everywhere they are involved, we should make their life hell because every waking minute, they are planning the same. With Telebunnies making noises on Kashmir even before they have declared their government, our blood should boil to know who the string pullers are behind the puppet. Well, let's see what the future holds now.
I like what you say and I too am totally in favour of it.

However, the problems are:

1. Fighters from Tajik base would not be able to threat PAF as India doesn't have the support system in those areas. In today's fight a fighter without force multipliers like AWACS or ground based radar network is way too vulnerable. Especially since PAF will definitely send out its AWACS with its fighters to face India.

2. We can't send in our own boys as that would be death sentence for them if Panjshir falls. Also, the hills of Panjshir is completely different than the terrain we have mastered.

But, I would like if India retaliates against PAF and lights up LOC in warning, which Modi wont do because like it or not, such a move will cost us too much diplomatic coins.

As for high table of Kabul. It is a loss, but not a big one. Unless India accepts the inevitable and takes away PoK and GB, India would always remain a minor player in the region.

I am sure RA&W knew that ANA was going to fall and had prepared Massoud's NA with support. Yet, it seems it wasn't enough as Porkis brought in high tech war in the game. It obviously was out of syllabus for RA&W, as they didn't think that Porkis would dare to show its hand so openly.

And, yes, India did lose some in this game. But, it didn't have any option either. Given Russia is reluctant to play and rather willing to screw over the former allies of US to undermine US authority in global scale, India obviously was not getting much support in Tajikistan. Also, recent souring of relationship with Iran under Chinese influence also blocked another route for India.

So, it is best for India now to dust of its hand and prepare for the next event.

1. Support any resistance financially and with equipment.

2. Prepare to take PoK and GB in the first opportunity.

Like it or not, except for FATF connection where Pak can shift terror camps to Afghanistan to get out of grey list, Pakistan had gained little and lost more. They have always gotten bitten by the snakes they fed. Nothing says that it will any different now.

As for FATF, the FATF don't care for geography so much as the money trail. Even with camps shifted to Afghanistan, the money trail would link to Pak and if India plays well, Pak will remain in grey. Especially after showing its hand in Afghanistan.
 
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Mikesingh

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What is Panjshir Up Against?

Maj Gen Rehmani the SSG commander on the ground directing ops to capture Panjshir. He is desperately asking XI corps commander to send in an NLI battalion and the third battalion of the SSG, which has now been staged forward to Landi Kotal making it into a complete SSG brigade for launching an offensive as two battalions are already deployed at Panjshir.

One arty regiment of 130 mm and a battery of 122mm guns being staged forward to provide cover to the attacking forces. A PAF drone unit is providing info as a result of which Saleh's house has been destroyed. ( not known whether by Pak's Burraq UCAVs or arty shelling).

The situation is pretty tense and it seems the fall of Panjshir is imminent if no help is forthcoming soon.
 

Jimih

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What is Panjshir Up Against?

Maj Gen Rehmani the SSG commander on the ground directing ops to capture Panjshir. He is desperately asking XI corps commander to send in an NLI battalion and the third battalion of the SSG, which has now been staged forward to Landi Kital making it into a complete SSG brigade for launching an offensive as two battalions are already deployed at Panjshir.

One arty regiment of 130 mm and a battery of 122mm guns being staged forward to provide cover to the attacking forces. A PAF drone unit is providing info as a result of which Saleh's house has been destroyed. ( not known whether by Pak's Burraq UCAVs or arty shelling).

The situation is pretty tense and it seems the fall of Panjshir is imminent if no help is forthcoming soon.
ISI chief Faiz Hameed will soon face the axe.
He wants to be next PAK COAS.
All is not well between him and Bajwa.
 

Samaritan

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I really like your posts buddy and have been following them closely but I differ with you on this particular point. Long post, bear with me.

Current Fallout -
- With the Telebunnies winning and resistance wiped out, India has lost whatever little leverage it had. For example, if there was a sharing of power with NA and NA had Indian backing, India would also have leverage in the high table via NA.

- The Paki + Turkey + China axis will be supremely emboldened by this win, particularly if rumors are true that Pak has helped Telebunnies win this round. This is coming after Armenian win and this newfound confidence will be channeled against India next and her destruction.

- Pak, Turkey, and China literally own Telebunny a$$ now. I'm sure the support didn't come for free - rather absolute allegiance to the nexus. Also, Pak gets its strategic depth + US weapon systems left behind. Strategic depth is important - for example, what if Pak bases some of its nuclear assets out of Afg, in case of total annihilation of mainland or shift its terror training to Afg to avoid FATF sanctions. It's basically freehand for Chinese to exploit resources and Pak to leverage Afg for nefarious designs.

- India has had historical ties with the Northern Alliance, even from days when shit was really bad. We never let NA really die off and what a sad way to end it.

- Everyone and their dad will take India and Russia as cucks now. Not that we care but it emboldens the enemy to try all sorts of misadventure. We have superpower aspirations however we are always scared to play it big, take major decisions, or play it dirty. This is not how superpowers act.

What we could have done -
- I too feel all this talk of taking POK and opening support route etc. are bunkum. We can't make plans based on future if/else scenarios which are highly questionable.

- However, Tajiks seem to have had access to Panjshir via aerial route and this route would have been vital. Telebunnies gave enough time to the NA to prepare, I think cos of doubts if they can take the NA head on. Hence the Paki intervention. This time was crucial. We could have sent men and material to prepare the NA defenses (we are champs with mountain and jungle/guerilla warfare).

- Taking the Tajiks + Russia into confidence (basically play a leadership role) and keeping the airspace open. If that means basing some SU-30s in Tajik airbase and threatening PAK with retribution, if they bring their air cavalry, so be it.

- Would be a good testing ground for our anti-drone technologies as well. Now I know, we don't have enough yet for our own armed forces. Now this is the problem, why no planning in advance? We never foresee such security scenarios and are always in reactionary mode.

- Keep LOC hot. The ceasefire was nonsense and the moment Telebunnies get settled, Pak will throw it out of the window anyways. Give them threats, that if they do any misadventure in Afg, we will cross LOC and do a land grab. Fcuk what the world things - the retribution message should be loud and clear to them.

- Finally, try to hold NA defenses as long as possible so that a ceasefire and doldrum are reached. Paki + Telebunnies are forced to negotiate with NA.

PAK is our nemesis and everywhere they are involved, we should make their life hell because every waking minute, they are planning the same. With Telebunnies making noises on Kashmir even before they have declared their government, our blood should boil to know who the string pullers are behind the puppet. Well, let's see what the future holds now.
I differ with your views, We are not superpower. What we will achieve by going out of way to support NA at this stage and the way you explained. It is unnecessarily opening another front. I fully agree with the fact that the collapse of Ghani Government ,we have lost all possibilities in Afghan . The Axis is shifting fast and we are on other side of Russia & Iran which used to be on our side earlier. I only see following to move from here
  1. Do not indulge in any direct or indirect military alliance with anyone in Afghan till situation is clear.
  2. Work with Russia/Iran to see inclusion of Karzai or Abdulla in new government to have communication channels open.
  3. Even ISI could settle and from Afghan Government of Taliban , it's not going to work because the purpose of ISI is to use this situation against India which may not be the only work Afghan Government have on their cards, they need support and recognition from world to run the government.
  4. India has to use all her clout to see Pak do not come of FATF and so support from IMF is given to PAK.
  5. Economically trapped Afghan government will not pay heed to ISI and then infighting starts may lead to civil war.
  6. At this stage , everyone including China/Russia/Iran and India/US will play their cards .
  7. This situation will come and we have wait for this.
  8. Caution : We should not play second fiddle to US and must see our interest clearly , but we need US support for technology and weapons so we have work with them.
  9. We can not trust Russia any more and same is with US.
  10. In my view , internal situation is more dangerous than the situation is Afghan , there is deliberate attempt to create problems in internal fabric of India thorough various agitations and internal security is to be worried about.
  11. There has to be fast reforms in favor of National Security otherwise present version of democracy will be screwed with issued like Pegasus and many more and will loose at the hands of countries who are working on India too like Afghan
 

Kumata

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IMO, we are being un necessarily worried.. Only way to see us safe is by keeping the internal pot boiling in Pakistan internally ... they have enough players with in ready to help us... with Taliban in west... things will only improve...

it will not help that Pak is being forced to take in all refugees from Afghanistan...which will stretch them more.. off course they will get paid a bit but still will that be enough is the quesion...

Another interesting statemement which got lost in whole thing is from talibani's ... " we don;t consider durand line as sacrosant . tribals have each and every right to mingle and produce more "

Interesting times...But Panjshir would be a embarrassment for taliban in future... As some body said.. as things become more clear... there would be a Civil war .. Jihadis will try to ride the new found man hood ...and In all this Porkis will bear the brunt...

All we need to keep doing is to keep feeding the snakes in porkland...
 

Jimih

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Rudra7678

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Whatever the result, I am happy that it has shattered some myths:

Afghans cannot and will not fight an external enemy, especially if it is powerful.
They will cut deals and ensure their own clan's safety. Ahmad Massoud took money from Soviets and did not attack them in Panjshir rather propped fake battles and ambushes. ANA gave up without a fight at many places.
They never unite even in face of foreign onslaught. There is no feeling of "Afghaness", if that word has any meaning.
It is a myth that it is a "Graveyard of Empires". Both Soviets and Americans left when they felt like.
Taliban wants to act as a 'unifying force', uniting the country as a cohesive political/geographical entity but if Iran and India want, peace can never be there. It is much easier to put one faction against the other.
 

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