Taliban Takeover of Afghanistan 2021: Impact on India

[another_armchair]

If they were cowards they would not have fought there for around 20 years. They are not cowards. Their political leadership told them to leave. Indian forces would do the same if GOI told them to. That would not make them cowards.

The coward tag rests with the American establishment, not the uniformed soldier putting his life on the line for 20 grand + a few hundred/thousand dollars in allowances & perks.

It has always been a money making racket for the mil-ind complex, they get to test their skills, equipment, tactics and move on to the next theatre while the rest of the world wrings its palms in helplessness.

As said earlier, American establishment is more status-quoist than the entire Indian bureaucracy put together.

 

[nWo 4 Life]

Essentially EU nations are like the old father of a rogue loafer in Hindi daily soaps
Interesting loop-
1) US creates a war.
2) EU nations are tagged along as a symbol- most of them can't fight for shit other than France, UK and Germany
3) US ends the war. EU nations role kicks in- "Concerned for refugee influx"
4) Repeat.

Correct. Basically just making other people deal with their mess, or finish somebody else's murder mystery, if you want to be poetic about it.

 

[Detective Pennington]

The coward tag rests with the American establishment, not the uniformed soldier putting his life on the line for 20 grand + a few hundred/thousand dollars in allowances & perks.

It has always been a money making racket for the mil-ind complex, they get to test their skills, equipment, tactics and move on to the next theatre while the rest of the world wrings its palms in helplessness.

As said earlier, American establishment is more status-quoist than the entire Indian bureaucracy put together.

It brings up a good point though, if the American establishment is so status quo, how do we change it? Russians are with Pak on this issue.

 

[another_armchair]

Essentially EU nations are like the old father of a rogue loafer in Hindi daily soaps
Interesting loop-
1) US creates a war.
2) EU nations are tagged along as a symbol- most of them can't fight for shit other than France, UK and Germany
3) US ends the war. EU nations role kicks in- "Concerned for refugee influx"
4) Repeat.

EU is the AK Hangal of NATO.

Contributes pension to NATO, pulls rug over head and goes back to sleep after outsourcing its security to the yanks but cries when the son comes home in a coffin.

Don't want to shed own blood but wants Z+ category security while not having a definite plan to deal with radical Islam, the fountainhead of several genocides and terror attacks since it came into being.

 

[Lost user]

Tell you what, the reactions from this whole mess have been hilarious, to say the least

German Chancellor Angela Merkel who was recently referring to Biden as “dear Joe” has taken to blaming his administration for the mess. French President Emmanuel Macron and other European leaders are worried about a refugee crisis from Afghanistan.

Biden, Trump, any American that was remotely associated with Afghanistan is being blamed by the other Western powers.

Boris Johnson said the British and other NATO members had no choice but to cut and run from Afghanistan because the Americans had preemptively done so. Other European politicians are crying that it is the worst failure in the history of the NATO military alliance formed in 1949.

Certainly, the main culprit for the situation in Afghanistan is America. But it is delusional for the Brits and other NATO members to try to shift the blame entirely. They all went into that country using the alliance’s so-called Article Five collective defense clause. The war and 20-year occupation were illegal from the outset having no mandate from the UN Security Council nor any plausible self-defense claim.

They all went there in a show of military strength to project imperial force to the rest of the world.

All of the NATO powers are guilty of war crimes from the war in Afghanistan, including the mass killing of civilians and running detention-torture centers. Trillions of dollars funded by taxpayers were squandered, given as subsidies to military companies, while hundreds of thousands of lives were destroyed. Millions of Afghans have been made homeless.

The British are first-among-equals in their complicity with American crimes. It was former prime minister Good Ol' Tony Blair himself who acted as George W Bush’s international puppet for enabling the war.

In the end, the Americans wanted out of their swamp which they had created 40 years ago when they sponsored and funded the rise of the Mujahedeen against a Soviet-aligned government in Kabul. The Mujahedeen were the precursor to the Taliban and the Al Qaeda which has since metastasized in several countries giving the US and NATO an excuse for invading.

It is remarkably amusing how the Americans used NATO collective defense to give their imperial crimes in Afghanistan a facade of “international coalition”. Yet in the end, when it came to packing up and getting out, the United States made its decision unilaterally without consulting its so-called allies

And that’s what’s burning them.

The British and the other European governments are now left in the lurch to deal with the public anger and shame over the Afghanistan mess.

If there is possibly one positive thing to come out of the catastrophe and criminality it is the public realization that the United States and its gang of NATO accomplices are a rogue organization that is a threat to world peace and not, as they preposterously claim, to be about upholding defense and security.

Afghanistan started as an imperialist criminal enterprise. Now that the sham is exposed, all the culprits are scurrying for cover. And in their scurrying for alibis, it is only obvious that they have thrown under the bus and driven their knives out for the king rat – US of A.

True.. Germany is panicking because it is not sure whether they can trust Uncle Sam, to put up a fight when Germany or its interests are subjected to military assault.. Need to remember that Germany projects its power through the imperial project of EU..Any imperial project has to be backed up by military power. France is the only decent military power in the EU, but it is only good enough to defend its own borders from a Russian assault, let alone defend eastern Europe.. So, the EU nations depend on the US to deter Russia..
As I talked about before, EU and NATO was expanded to include Baltic countries viz. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania that cannot be defended during a war with Russia.. The closure of the Suwalki gap between Belarus and Kaliningrad cuts the Baltics off..
So, the question haunting Germany and Europe is whether the Yankees will sacrifice thousands of American soldiers to claw back EU territory if Russia decides to occupy parts of EU ? The Answer is NO.. America has always been isolationist at heart, and with the woke revolution, the threshold for American military casualties where the political leadership tends to lose support has dropped a lot lower.. If it was 40000 for Vietnam, it may be just a thousand today, thanks to woke youth, who hate war.. A war with a near peer rival like Russia, entails huge NATO military deaths. The EU is utterly dependent on US security guarantees. Now, they are not sure whether the US will stay and fight or throw Eastern Europe under the bus, if things get too hot, by executing a cut and run ..

 

[Covfefe]

The coward tag rests with the American establishment, not the uniformed soldier putting his life on the line for 20 grand + a few hundred/thousand dollars in allowances & perks.

It has always been a money making racket for the mil-ind complex, they get to test their skills, equipment, tactics and move on to the next theatre while the rest of the world wrings its palms in helplessness.

As said earlier, American establishment is more status-quoist than the entire Indian bureaucracy put together.

Exactly. Feel bad for their soldiers who lost their lives here- some got permanently disabled physically, other mentally, with almost no support system back home. All their sacrifices were in vain. They were not cowards, their political leadership has been corrupt, delusional, and stupid all throughout.

 

[Covfefe]

True.. Germany is panicking because it is not sure whether they can trust Uncle Sam, to put up a fight when Germany or its interests are subjected to military assault.. Need to remember that Germany projects its power through the imperial project of EU..Any imperial project has to be backed up by military power. France is the only decent military power in the EU, but it is only good enough to defend its own borders from a Russian assault, let alone defend eastern Europe.. So, the EU nations depend on the US to deter Russia..
As I talked about before, EU and NATO was expanded to include Baltic countries viz. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania that cannot be defended during a war with Russia.. The closure of the Suwalki gap between Belarus and Kaliningrad cuts the Baltics off..
So, the question haunting Germany and Europe is whether the Yankees will sacrifice thousands of American soldiers to claw back EU territory if Russia decides to occupy parts of EU ? The Answer is NO.. America has always been isolationist at heart, and with the woke revolution, the threshold for American military casualties where the political leadership tends to lose support has dropped a lot lower.. If it was 40000 for Vietnam, it may be just a thousand today, thanks to woke youth, who hate war.. A war with a near peer rival like Russia, entails huge NATO military deaths. The EU is utterly dependent on US security guarantees. Now, they are not sure whether the US will stay and fight or throw Eastern Europe under the bus, if things get too hot, by executing a cut and run ..

It's high time that Germany pays for the protection it desires- both in money and sacrifices. Let their countrymen know the value of "ubiquitous freedom" they enjoy.

 

[Detective Pennington]

It's high time that Germany pays for the protection it desires- both in money and sacrifices. Let their countrymen know the value of "ubiquitous freedom" they enjoy.

Trump tried to do this, he was immediately lambasted by the smug globalist elite about how he was destroying our alliances. When you have an entire philosophy (globalism) that captured the minds of half the nation that it's some cool thing to destroy your own national interests in the name of a more interconnected world, there is only so much you can do unfortunately.

 

[Tactical Doge]

the way they have run away from the field , it is cowardice. women from afghan have more courage than so called super powers.

For the last time
Don't call all Americans cowards
The soldiers themselves didn't choose a cowardly exit
It is the leadership making the calls
But I would agree that the American suppa pawa image is greatly tarnished

 

[Jimih]

Essentially EU nations are like the old father of a rogue loafer in Hindi daily soaps
Interesting loop-
1) US creates a war.
2) EU nations are tagged along as a symbol- most of them can't fight for shit other than France, UK and Germany
3) US ends the war. EU nations role kicks in- "Concerned for refugee influx"
4) Repeat.

US is the only reason for refugees running into EU nations plus the UK.

 

[Detective Pennington]

US is the only reason for refugees running into EU nations plus the UK.

In fairness, it's hard to say who is more responsible, Russia + Assad or US helping free Syrian army.

 

[nWo 4 Life]

True.. Germany is panicking because it is not sure whether they can trust Uncle Sam, to put up a fight when Germany or its interests are subjected to military assault.. Need to remember that Germany projects its power through the imperial project of EU..Any imperial project has to be backed up by military power. France is the only decent military power in the EU, but it is only good enough to defend its own borders from a Russian assault, let alone defend eastern Europe.. So, the EU nations depend on the US to deter Russia..
As I talked about before, EU and NATO was expanded to include Baltic countries viz. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania that cannot be defended during a war with Russia.. The closure of the Suwalki gap between Belarus and Kaliningrad cuts the Baltics off..
So, the question haunting Germany and Europe is whether the Yankees will sacrifice thousands of American soldiers to claw back EU territory if Russia decides to occupy parts of EU ? The Answer is NO.. America has always been isolationist at heart, and with the woke revolution, the threshold for American military casualties where the political leadership tends to lose support has dropped a lot lower.. If it was 40000 for Vietnam, it may be just a thousand today, thanks to woke youth, who hate war.. A war with a near peer rival like Russia, entails huge NATO military deaths. The EU is utterly dependent on US security guarantees. Now, they are not sure whether the US will stay and fight or throw Eastern Europe under the bus, if things get too hot, by executing a cut and run ..

They tried to solve this problem by announcing their intentions to make an "EU Army". To UK, the prospect was so outrageous that it only further solidified support for Brexit and the Leave ideologues never failed to bring it up in a debate about Brexit; Nigel Farage especially. With UK out, the plan has stopped, who knows if it will be revived again.

As to your point, about whether America will intervene to support Europe in case of a Russian military attack, the answer is we will have to wait and see what America does now.

Like I had said before, according to Brown University’s Watson Institute, the US government had spent more than $2.2 trillion – an average of about $110 billion, or more than $300 per American, per year – losing in Afghanistan.

Some of those costs – for example, more than $500 billion ($25 billion per year) in interest on war borrowing, and nearly $300 billion ($15 billion per year) in medical and disability costs for the US armed forces’ wounded – will unfortunately continue to gnaw American taxpayers far into the future. There's no way around those.

But items like the US Defense Department’s “Overseas Contingency Operations” budget ($933 billion, or $47 billion per year), the State Department’s OCO ($59 billion, or $3 billion per year), and DoD’s “base budget increases” for the war ($443 billion, or $22 billion per year) are fair game for cuts.

Let’s call it $70 billion a year in savings. Of course it will be more than that, but let's take a conservative estimate: 70 billion dollars.

The big problem now, of course, is getting politicians to resist the wheedling of “defense” contractors and armed forces bureaucrats. They want that money rolled over into exciting new, and invariably bad, ideas for US military adventurism (e.g. “confronting China” or “countering Russia”), rather than simply removed.

That’s a difficult problem, but it’s also an incredibly important problem. If the people who keep getting them into expensive fiascoes like Afghanistan are allowed to just roll old money over into new scams when the old ones finally collapse, those scams will keep coming and keep getting more expensive. The US “defense” budget must be cut by at least $70 billion per year going forward.

As to what should be done with that savings, lots of people have lots of ideas. The most prudent would be to leave $70 billion per year more in ordinary Americans’ pockets through some kind of bottom-bracket tax cut. But before they can do anything with it, they have to pry it out of the military-industrial complex’s grasp.

Whether they can or will is what is to be seen. If they manage to shake off the War Machine's chokehold on their jugular, perhaps we will see the revival of American isolationism. If not (which seems more likely), let's just say this isn't the last time you've seen USA get involved in another foreign war again.

 

[Covfefe]

US is the only reason for refugees running into EU nations plus the UK.

US is the only reason that beer, and not vodka, is the drink of Germans today

 

[Varoon2]

That is a great example of a news organ incapable of organising a debate. Suppressing those in the know (reporters who are there on the ground) who were invited to give their account of events invalidates the exercise. The chair's assertion that various western governments are pressurising independent supporters to whitewash the Taliban is unlikely beyond belief.

But it was nice to see Arnab, Major Gaurav et al really sock it to the Western media, who are so eager to show India in a bad light, for any little thing.

 

[Jimih]

In fairness, it's hard to say who is more responsible, Russia + Assad or US helping free Syrian army.

First of all why US is in Syria?
Russians are invited guests of Assad not Yankees.

Why US is concerned about installing democracies all over the world? It should first set its own house in order and save itself from upcoming civil war.

 

[Indrajit]

For the last time
Don't call all Americans cowards
The soldiers themselves didn't choose a cowardly exit
It is the leadership making the calls
But I would agree that the American suppa pawa image is greatly tarnished

Biden has always been anti this war, wanted to end it 10 years ago when he was VP. Trump too wanted out, he’s lucky that this didn’t happen under his watch. Even Indian favourites like Tulsi Gabbard, and no one would call her a coward, wanted to get out of Afghanistan. Americans are tired of these wars and politicians will show some reflection of the same. Let’s be clear, we may call the Americans cowards but we didn’t want to put any Indian boots on the ground. American heavy lifting has been the norm but public mood in the US is getting tired of that. It’s why Trump was elected and why Biden too was. Make no mistake, I think the American withdrawal was a disaster especially how it panned out but I don’t think we in India have earned the right to criticise the Americans for being cowards when we never lifted a finger militarily.

 

[Jimih]

US is the only reason that beer, and not vodka, is the drink of Germans today

Germany is the only reason why US is superpower today.

 

[alex86neo]

WHOSE FAULT IS IT ?

About the tragic situation in Afghanistan , I see people either cursing USA for withdrawing its troops or giving it support in initial years to fight against Russia. Or I see people questioning the silence of Muslims and so called seculars who were supporting Palestine recently and crying themselves hoarse with plea to help them against Israel. And worst I see people justifying it by drawing some parallel relevant or not relevant to the present scenario.
But sadly I do not see people questioning the citizens of Afghanistan themselves or their army or their leaders!
Twenty years later if strength of three lakh trained army personnel give up without fight against seventy thousand odd Taliban guerilla fighters , whose fault is it ?
If the President and Vice President of the country flee leaving the citizens , whose fault is this ?
Seeing the viral video of Kabul airport runway you can't help noticing that there are negligible women or children in that crowd desperate to flee the country, so desperate that they are willing to die by falling off from the aeroplane wheels ! How easily these men left their women and kids at the mercy of Taliban ! Who is to be blamed for this irresponsible, selfish cowardice ?
How a country can go on surviving on the charity of other countries be it monetary or muscular? And for how long ? Why should citizens of other countries lay their lives to save a country whose own citizens are not ready to fight for their own rights ? Why should soldiers of other countries fight it's battle if it's own army surrenders without fighting ?
Why did Afghanistani forces surrender without putting up a fight ? Is it because many of them do prescribe to the same Talibani ideology? Is it because the Talibanis had infiltrated the army ?
Why men of Afghanistan do not raise their voices to safeguard the rights of their women folk ? Is it because they too have been brain washed to believe in Sharia laws and consider going against it as sin worthy of punishment ?
Why Muslims of other countries remain silent ? Because they too prescribe to same ideology or lack the moral courage to challenge it ? If cornered they just parrot the role of USA in creating the monster of Taliban. But did USA teach Talibanis to rape the women and children? Did USA motivate Talibanis to enforce compulsory Burqa? Did USA tell Talibanis to stop women from going to schools, from working, from walking out of their houses without male escorts? Did USA teach Talibanis how to flog women for the slightest of transgression -real or imaginary ?
Who is giving sanction to all this inhumanity, this cruelty and this brutality ? USA or Islam ?
Who is allowing it to happen? USA or the collective silence of people bowing to wrong religious idealogy in the name of sick secularism !


got this on message. All points true

 

[Detective Pennington]

First of all why US is in Syria?
Russians are invited guests of Assad not Yankees.

Why US is concerned about installing democracies all over the world? It should first set its own house in order and save itself from upcoming civil war.

It's true that Russians are the good guys in Syria compared to the US, i'm just saying in terms of how much damage is being done and who is creating more refugees, it's hard to say.

 

[nWo 4 Life]

Biden has always been anti this war, wanted to end it 10 years ago when he was VP. Trump too wanted out, he’s lucky that this didn’t happen under his watch. Even Indian favourites like Tulsi Gabbard, and no one would call her a coward, wanted to get out of Afghanistan. Americans are tired of these wars and politicians will show some reflection of the same. Let’s be clear, we may call the Americans cowards but we didn’t want to put any Indian boots on the ground. American heavy lifting has been the norm but public mood in the US is getting tired of that. It’s why Trump was elected and why Biden too was. Make no mistake, I think the American withdrawal was a disaster especially how it panned out but I don’t think we in India have earned the right to criticise the Americans for being cowards when we never lifted a finger militarily.

Why should we? Put Indian boots on foreign soil or interfere militarily? Why should we go to foreign soil and kill civilians and children? For "democracy" and nation building? We never invaded other countries because we are smart and because we do not assume the position of global watchdog, invade countries and steal their resources and kill their civilians because somehow we know what they need better than they know what they need.

If you invade a country with a particular goal in mind, spend trillions of dollars and decades into it, embezzle money and engage in corruption and then call back your troops in such a haphazard manner that you basically hand it over to the opposing forces, you ARE cowards. There's no two ways about it.