India and the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO)

Should India get permanant membership in the SCO?

  • Yes, India should join SCO as full member

    Votes: 15 55.6%
  • No, India's observer status is enough

    Votes: 10 37.0%
  • Not now, but maybe in the future

    Votes: 2 7.4%

  • Total voters
    27
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Yes Chinese are generating tax revenue by robbing the Afghans of their resources what a joke and USA are China's security even funnier and not only USA is involved all NATO is their to help Chinese generate tax revenue even funnier you are living in a dream world, Chinese are not paying one penny for resources they are STEALING from Afghanistan.
 

Koji

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Yes Chinese are generating tax revenue by robbing the Afghans of their resources what a joke and USA are China's security even funnier and not only USA is involved all NATO is their to help Chinese generate tax revenue even funnier you are living in a dream world, Chinese are not paying one penny for resources they are STEALING from Afghanistan.
FDI is now considered stealing?
 
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So this 8 year war in Afghanistan was to have Chinese FDI in Afghanistan, that is why we are no longer looking for Osama and Taliban is slowly becoming good Taliban very convincing.
 

Koji

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So this 8 year war in Afghanistan was to have Chinese FDI in Afghanistan, that is why we are no longer looking for Osama and Taliban is slowly becoming good Taliban very convincing.
No, the war in Afghanistan was to put a legitimate government (friendly to the Americans) in power and to stabilize the country. Now, the Americans realize that they need help and that's why they're welcoming the Chinese.
 

AkhandBharat

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FDI is now considered stealing?
FDI is not considered stealing. Buying Copper and Natural gas at dirt cheap prices is.

IN Afghanistan’s Logar Province, just south of Kabul, the geopolitical future of Asia is becoming apparent: American troops are providing security for a Chinese state-owned company to exploit the Aynak copper reserves, which are worth tens of billions of dollars. While some of America’s NATO allies want to do as little as possible in the effort to stabilize Afghanistan, China has its eyes on some of world’s last untapped deposits of copper, iron, gold, uranium and precious gems, and is willing to take big risks in one of the most violent countries to secure them.
NYT Op-Ed
 

Koji

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Oh god, it's good business to buy at a low price. And you're going to hold it against them!? LOL

At least the some of the money is going to the Afghan government, and that's more than most countries can offer.
 
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I am unwilling to believe USA/NATO fought a war to benefit China, if you want to believe it that's fine with me.
 

Koji

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I never said that. I'm saying that the Chinese are helping NATO/USA in completing their objectives. Some of which include business development in Afghanistan, increase employment, and to form a more stable government.
 

AkhandBharat

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Oh god, it's good business to buy at a low price. And you're going to hold it against them!? LOL

At least the some of the money is going to the Afghan government, and that's more than most countries can offer.
I am not holding it against them. I'm just saying that its stealing and exploitation. Ofcourse China will take everything it gets without firing a single shot!

I am unwilling to believe USA/NATO fought a war to benefit China, if you want to believe it that's fine with me.
USA/NATO fought the afghan war for its prestige. To protect its citizens and show the world that it is still alive and kicking ass. However, China didn't send any soldiers to Afghan is now reaping profits even though they didn't spend a single dollar stabilizing the country.

I never said that. I'm saying that the Chinese are helping NATO/USA in completing their objectives. Some of which include business development in Afghanistan, increase employment, and to form a more stable government.
Chinese are not helping USA in jack shit. All they are doing is exploiting the opportunity to grab resources at dirt cheap prices with USA spending billions of dollars protecting them.
 

Koji

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Don't be so Zero-Sum. Both the Americans and Chinese benefit out of this, or why else would the Americans be protecting the Chinese businesses?
 

AkhandBharat

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You agreed yourself that China is buying natural resources from Afghan at cheap prices. What has China done to stabilize Afghan? How many soldiers did China send? How much material support did China provide to NATO forces? What was the chinese contribution to afghan other than plundering their resources?
 

Koji

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The contribution does not have to be in military terms. The military objective in Afghanistan is two fold: eliminate the Taliban, and to install a stable government.

The Chinese are helping USA/NATO in the latter objective by providing jobs, developing industry in Afghanistan, and providing the government with some tax revenue.

Thus they are helping the US by giving some Afghans jobs, which prevents them from being disgruntled and potentially becoming suicide bombers.

Again, if the Chinese are not contributing, why else would American soldiers guard Chinese businesses?
 

Vladimir79

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Or, Russia is happy that US is cleaning up after itself with no strings attached and is getting a kick out of the mujahideen's losses today.

(not that I'm saying they dont deserve it in the first place)
Russia does attach strings, without our transit, NATO forces are stranded. If they try something stupid, we can strand their troops. A good leverage I think. :D
 

AkhandBharat

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The contribution does not have to be in military terms. The military objective in Afghanistan is two fold: eliminate the Taliban, and to install a stable government.

The Chinese are helping USA/NATO in the latter objective by providing jobs, developing industry in Afghanistan, and providing the government with some tax revenue.

Thus they are helping the US by giving some Afghans jobs, which prevents them from being disgruntled and potentially becoming suicide bombers.

Again, if the Chinese are not contributing, why else would American soldiers guard Chinese businesses?
There is no industry being developed in Afghan. There are mines being developed, and the ores are lifted out of Afghanistan. Heck atleast the Arabian countries have oil refineries. Afghan workers are more like modern day slaves working for a neo-colonial china working for them for a daily wage and letting China get away with plundering.

Read the Op-Ed I posted. USA is being forced to stay in China for reasons other than protecting Chinese interests. China is taking advantage of both US and Afghan.
 

Koji

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You are wrong. Australia is almost dependent on the revenues generated by the mining operations going on. Would you say that it doesn't represent substantial industry? It is more complicated than just lifting out ore. Railroads, and roads need to be built, mines need to be developed (a substantial undertaking)

Also, the refineries are not in the Middle East. Raw oil is shipped out of the Middle East to be refined in wherever they are shipped to.

And a job is a job, and it is better than unemployment.
 

AkhandBharat

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You are wrong. Australia is almost dependent on the revenues generated by the mining operations going on. Would you say that it doesn't represent substantial industry? It is more complicated than just lifting out ore. Railroads, and roads need to be built, mines need to be developed (a substantial undertaking)

Also, the refineries are not in the Middle East. Raw oil is shipped out of the Middle East to be refined in wherever they are shipped to.

And a job is a job, and it is better than unemployment.

Are you freaking kidding me? Australia and Afghan are one and the same? Australia controls at what price it sells its resources and to whom. Afghan cannot. See the big picture here?

Here's a list of oil refineries in middle east:

Saudi Arabia

* Riyadh Refinery (Saudi Aramco), 120,000 bbl/d (19,000 m³/d)
* Rabigh Refinery (Saudi Aramco), 400,000 bbl/d (64,000 m³/d)
* Yanbu' Refinery (Saudi Aramco), 230,000 bbl/d (37,000 m³/d)
* Jeddah Refinery (Saudi Aramco), 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m³/d)
* Ras Tanura Refinery (Saudi Aramco), 525,000 bbl/d (83,500 m³/d)
* Aramco/Exxon Yanbu' Refinery (Saudi Aramco/ExxonMobil), 400,000 bbl/d (64,000 m³/d)
* Aramco/Total Jubail Refinery,400,000 bbl/d (64,000 m³/d
* Chevron

Iran

* Abadan Refinery (NIOC), 450,000 bbl/d (72,000 m3/d)
* Arak Refinery (NIOC), 150,000 bbl/d (24,000 m3/d)
* Tehran Refinery (NIOC), 225,000 bbl/d (35,800 m3/d)
* Isfahan Refinery (NIOC), 265,000 bbl/d (42,100 m3/d)
* Tabriz Refinery (NIOC), 112,000 bbl/d (17,800 m3/d)
* Shiraz Refinery (NIOC), 40,000 bbl/d (6,400 m3/d)
* Lavan Refinery (NIOC), 20,000 bbl/d (3,200 m3/d)
* Bandar Abbas Refinery (NIOC), 232,000 bbl/d (36,900 m3/d)
* Kermanshah refinery (NIOC),21,000 bpd

Iraq

* Basrah Refinery (INOC), 126,000 bbl/d (20,000 m3/d)
* Daurah Refinery (INOC), 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m3/d)
* Kirkuk Refinery (INOC), 27,000 bbl/d (4,300 m3/d)
* Baiji Salahedden Refinery (INOC), 140,000 bbl/d (22,000 m3/d)
* Baiji North Refinery (INOC), 150,000 bbl/d (24,000 m3/d)
* Khanaqin/Alwand Refinery (INOC), 10,500 bbl/d (1,670 m3/d)
* Samawah Refinery (INOC), 27,000 bbl/d (4,300 m3/d)
* Haditha Refinery (INOC), 14,000 bbl/d (2,200 m3/d)
* Muftiah Refinery (INOC), 4,500 bbl/d (720 m3/d)
* Gaiyarah Refinery (INOC), 4,000 bbl/d (640 m3/d)

Israel

* Haifa Refinery (ORL), 180,000 bbl/d (29,000 m3/d)
* Ashdod Refinery (Paz), 95,000 bbl/d (15,100 m3/d)

Kuwait

* Mina Al-Ahmadi Refinery (KNPC), 470,000 bbl/d (75,000 m3/d)
* Shuaiba Refinery (KNPC), 200,000 bbl/d (32,000 m3/d)
* Mina Abdullah Refinery (KNPC), 270,000 bbl/d (43,000 m3/d)

Oman

* Mina Al Fahal Oman Refinery Company (ORC) 85,000 bbl/d (13,500 m3/d)
* Sohar Refinery Company (SRC) 116,000 bbl/d (18,400 m3/d)
* Dukum Refinery Company (DRC) 200,000 bpd (Proposed)

United Arab Emirates

* Al-Ruwais Refinery (Abu Dhabi Oil Refining Company), 280,000 bbl/d (45,000 m3/d)
* Umm Al-Narr Refinery (Abu Dhabi Oil Refining Company), 90,000 bbl/d (14,000 m3/d)
* Jebel Ali Refinery (ENOC), 120,000 bbl/d (19,000 m3/d)
* Hamriyah Sharjah Refinery (Sharjah Oil), 71,300 bbl/d (11,340 m3/d)

Qatar

* Um Said Refinery (QP Refinery 100%), 147,000 bbl/d (23,400 m3/d)
* Lafan Refinery (Qatar Petroleum 51%, ExxonMobil 10%, Total 10%, Idemitsu 10%, Cosmo 10%, Mitsui 4.5%, Marubeni 4.5%), 146,000 bbl/d (23,200 m3/d)
* AL-Shahene Refinery (2012), 250,000 bbl/d (40,000 m3/d)

Bahrain

* Bapco Sitrah Refinery (Bapco), 267,000 bbl/d (42,400 m3/d)

Yemen

* Aden Refinery, (Aden Refinery Company), 120,000 bbl/d (19,000 m3/d)
* Marib Refinery, (Yemen Hunt Oil Company), 10,000 bbl/d (1,600 m3/d)

Jordan

* Jordan Refinery ,Zarqa, Az Zarqa, (Jordan Petrolum Refinery Company), 65,000 bbl/d (10,300 m3/d)

The raw oil that does get shipped to foreign refineries are shipping at market prices determined by OPEC. The same can't be said about China which you agreed upon. Rail roads are not an industry. They are infrastructure projects which aid in industrial development and by themselves do not hold any value. China is building roads from afghan through pakistan through the karakoram highway into xinjiang. That is not helping Afghan in any way. Its a ruse for getting cheap raw materials to fuel its exports, nothing more.
 

Koji

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Here is the total number of refineries:

List of oil refineries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check the #'s in the middle east vs the world.

Better yet, check the largest refineries.


Conclusion? Only a minimal amount of oil is refined in the Middle East.



And since when does railroads and roads not count as important FDI?? Laughable.
 

AkhandBharat

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Are you freaking kidding me? Australia and Afghan are one and the same? Australia controls at what price it sells its resources and to whom. Afghan cannot. See the big picture here?

Here's a list of oil refineries in middle east:

Saudi Arabia

* Riyadh Refinery (Saudi Aramco), 120,000 bbl/d (19,000 m³/d)
* Rabigh Refinery (Saudi Aramco), 400,000 bbl/d (64,000 m³/d)
* Yanbu' Refinery (Saudi Aramco), 230,000 bbl/d (37,000 m³/d)
* Jeddah Refinery (Saudi Aramco), 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m³/d)
* Ras Tanura Refinery (Saudi Aramco), 525,000 bbl/d (83,500 m³/d)
* Aramco/Exxon Yanbu' Refinery (Saudi Aramco/ExxonMobil), 400,000 bbl/d (64,000 m³/d)
* Aramco/Total Jubail Refinery,400,000 bbl/d (64,000 m³/d
* Chevron

Iran

* Abadan Refinery (NIOC), 450,000 bbl/d (72,000 m3/d)
* Arak Refinery (NIOC), 150,000 bbl/d (24,000 m3/d)
* Tehran Refinery (NIOC), 225,000 bbl/d (35,800 m3/d)
* Isfahan Refinery (NIOC), 265,000 bbl/d (42,100 m3/d)
* Tabriz Refinery (NIOC), 112,000 bbl/d (17,800 m3/d)
* Shiraz Refinery (NIOC), 40,000 bbl/d (6,400 m3/d)
* Lavan Refinery (NIOC), 20,000 bbl/d (3,200 m3/d)
* Bandar Abbas Refinery (NIOC), 232,000 bbl/d (36,900 m3/d)
* Kermanshah refinery (NIOC),21,000 bpd

Iraq

* Basrah Refinery (INOC), 126,000 bbl/d (20,000 m3/d)
* Daurah Refinery (INOC), 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m3/d)
* Kirkuk Refinery (INOC), 27,000 bbl/d (4,300 m3/d)
* Baiji Salahedden Refinery (INOC), 140,000 bbl/d (22,000 m3/d)
* Baiji North Refinery (INOC), 150,000 bbl/d (24,000 m3/d)
* Khanaqin/Alwand Refinery (INOC), 10,500 bbl/d (1,670 m3/d)
* Samawah Refinery (INOC), 27,000 bbl/d (4,300 m3/d)
* Haditha Refinery (INOC), 14,000 bbl/d (2,200 m3/d)
* Muftiah Refinery (INOC), 4,500 bbl/d (720 m3/d)
* Gaiyarah Refinery (INOC), 4,000 bbl/d (640 m3/d)

Israel

* Haifa Refinery (ORL), 180,000 bbl/d (29,000 m3/d)
* Ashdod Refinery (Paz), 95,000 bbl/d (15,100 m3/d)

Kuwait

* Mina Al-Ahmadi Refinery (KNPC), 470,000 bbl/d (75,000 m3/d)
* Shuaiba Refinery (KNPC), 200,000 bbl/d (32,000 m3/d)
* Mina Abdullah Refinery (KNPC), 270,000 bbl/d (43,000 m3/d)

Oman

* Mina Al Fahal Oman Refinery Company (ORC) 85,000 bbl/d (13,500 m3/d)
* Sohar Refinery Company (SRC) 116,000 bbl/d (18,400 m3/d)
* Dukum Refinery Company (DRC) 200,000 bpd (Proposed)

United Arab Emirates

* Al-Ruwais Refinery (Abu Dhabi Oil Refining Company), 280,000 bbl/d (45,000 m3/d)
* Umm Al-Narr Refinery (Abu Dhabi Oil Refining Company), 90,000 bbl/d (14,000 m3/d)
* Jebel Ali Refinery (ENOC), 120,000 bbl/d (19,000 m3/d)
* Hamriyah Sharjah Refinery (Sharjah Oil), 71,300 bbl/d (11,340 m3/d)

Qatar

* Um Said Refinery (QP Refinery 100%), 147,000 bbl/d (23,400 m3/d)
* Lafan Refinery (Qatar Petroleum 51%, ExxonMobil 10%, Total 10%, Idemitsu 10%, Cosmo 10%, Mitsui 4.5%, Marubeni 4.5%), 146,000 bbl/d (23,200 m3/d)
* AL-Shahene Refinery (2012), 250,000 bbl/d (40,000 m3/d)

Bahrain

* Bapco Sitrah Refinery (Bapco), 267,000 bbl/d (42,400 m3/d)

Yemen

* Aden Refinery, (Aden Refinery Company), 120,000 bbl/d (19,000 m3/d)
* Marib Refinery, (Yemen Hunt Oil Company), 10,000 bbl/d (1,600 m3/d)

Jordan

* Jordan Refinery ,Zarqa, Az Zarqa, (Jordan Petrolum Refinery Company), 65,000 bbl/d (10,300 m3/d)

The raw oil that does get shipped to foreign refineries are shipping at market prices determined by OPEC. The same can't be said about China which you agreed upon. Rail roads are not an industry. They are infrastructure projects which aid in industrial development and by themselves do not hold any value. China is building roads from afghan through pakistan through the karakoram highway into xinjiang. That is not helping Afghan in any way. Its a ruse for getting cheap raw materials to fuel its exports, nothing more.
Here is the total number of refineries:

List of oil refineries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check the #'s in the middle east vs the world.

Better yet, check the largest refineries.


Conclusion? Only a minimal amount of oil is refined in the Middle East.



And since when does railroads and roads not count as important FDI?? Laughable.
What is laughable is you beating around the bush trying to put china in a goody two shoes when they are not. The refineries are there in middle east and there are more being developed there. Moreover, you have no answer to the argument that OPEC ensures that oil prices are the same everywhere. Why would China "invest heavily" in Africa and places like Afghan? They are war-torn places which china takes advantage of. Thats why.

Is communist china going to develop copper refineries in Afghan? Ofcourse not! The CCP party will have a riot on its hands. Developing railroads to carry ores out of afghan is not FDI. It doesn't contribute to the economy of afghan, so it is not an "investment".
 

Koji

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Providing jobs is not contribution to the economy? That is news to me!
 

Vladimir79

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I think the real problem here is explotation of the Afghani people by stealing their resources. You say, oh, well China pays them for it... but the question is pays who? The Karzai government is corrupt from top to bottom, pay a little bribe here and get permission. Then China goes into the provinces to extract but then who you have to pay... The Taliban protection money. So in the end, the Afghani people get a road to nowhere and no funds. Explotation at its finest is something China excels at.
 

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