Surgical strikes inside Pak. Possibility?

Should India carry out surgical strikes in Pak after next big terrorist attack


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Abhijat

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I don't understand a simple thing, maybe someone here can guide me.

We all accept that cross border terrorism is a State sponsored terrorism. So they have active backing of state and it's apparatus .

So when you have to deal with a problem, do we target the final output , in this case terrorist themselves , or the root , i.e state and their sponsors.

Secondly, do we seriously believe that this kind of ideological warfare can be dealt using method of conventional warfare alone ?
 

Nicky G

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Pakistan never accepted that they did anything in India. Similar way why should we declare IF we are doing anything there.
The point is, even if we do anything there, they will NOT STOP. Unless until you balkanize them.
That's the only reasonable and sustainable final solution for our Paki woes; unfortunately, its not something achieved in a hurry and most of the steps towards that can't by necessity be public - which is a key element of any GoI response to a large scale terror attack on India, particularly civilians.

Paki balkanization should be a continuous proactive process and not merely a response to a terror strike. From some recent developments, we have some indications of some activity in hat context.
 

tsunami

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Pakistan never accepted that they did anything in India. Similar way why should we declare IF we are doing anything there.
The point is, even if we do anything there, they will NOT STOP. Unless until you balkanize them.
That is why counter terrorism with terrorism is the best policy. Doval fir champion :D
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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That is why counter terrorism with terrorism is the best policy. Doval fir champion :D
Terrorism is a policy of weak state, which cannot win in traditional war. India has tactical and numerical superiority over Pak and can hit them hard. Force projection is not such a bad idea.
 

Screambowl

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Terrorism is a policy of weak state, which cannot win in traditional war. India has tactical and numerical superiority over Pak and can hit them hard. Force projection is not such a bad idea.
This is not a permanent solution. But yes, as a Psywar, can be used to bring down their motivation, if succeeds. But that can be done without declaring and evidences. In world theatre Pakistan is not a very googled country and in two days the news of this will be embedded in archives.
 

tsunami

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Terrorism is a policy of weak state, which cannot win in traditional war. India has tactical and numerical superiority over Pak and can hit them hard. Force projection is not such a bad idea.
USA, Israel(ISIS), China(By it's proxy Pakistan) all have terrorism as a policy. They are not weak states. You know freedom fighter of One is a terrorist for another.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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USA, Israel(ISIS), China(By it's proxy Pakistan) all have terrorism as a policy. They are not weak states. You know freedom fighter of One is a terrorist for another.
USA- in Afghan case did not have clear tactical superiority over USSR
China- does not have it either over India
Israel- less said the better about that puny little state which cannot go to war with all foes all the time
 

tsunami

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I will still say if we have to do something in public, Airstrike is the best possible option we have and if we have to make more damage to Porkistan then best option is terrorism now. But in Any case WAR is not an option.
 

tarunraju

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If there is a 26/11-styled event, then India must carry out surgical strikes on Paki soil, even if there's an escalation. Pakistan won't go nuclear over surgical strikes. So there's plenty of headroom. If they keep their interceptors hot in the wake of a terrorist attack on India, then our strike corps must be huge, and we must establish air-superiority over the area we plan to hit.

The trouble is that terrorist establishments (command&control, and training) have moved to urban and suburban areas of Pakistan. They no longer operate out of huts in the open. So we will have to be absolutely certain about what we want to bomb, or the pro-India global sympathy will quickly turn into pro-Pakistan sympathy. We have an anti-national Indian media, and there are mother-selling cucks like Praveen Swamy wasting oxygen in India. So the Indian establishment has to do a lot of preparatory work.
 

LalTopi

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I think we should look at it using Game Theory in terms of assessing relative Payoffs. First of all I think that we would all agree that the adversary, I.e the real opponent making the decisions is tha Pak military generals; Pak overall population and politicians are just pawns in the game, not the decision makers.

At the moment the Pak generals achieve positive Payoff by commiting proxy terrorist attacks in India. They get Payoff - the benefit of positive adulation from Islamic supremacists and the overall Pak population. Any criticism can be deflected by claims that it is third party actors commiting the terrorist atrocities and not the Pak military. Also the Pak military keeps getting funded as they keep pedalling the inherent Moslems persecuted by Hindhus myth and the need for an effective Pak military to counter Hindhu kufars.

Now the Payoffs from the Indian perspective. Up until the recent Modi government, perceived options were limited. terrorist acts in India were negative Payoffs, but the alternatives were considered even worse. CSD was obviously considered as a non starter because of the fears of escalation to nuclear conflict. Indian leaders have to consider the the death of millions on the Indian side, whereas Pak generals don't give a shit if millions die from their side. Basically Pak generals were by accident or design positively playing the 'Game'.

So what can be done to reduce the Payoffs from the Pak Generals perspective. First of all I still think CSD is a non starter, as the payoffs from a nuclear conflict remain the same, I.e miliions die from both sides, but Pak Gemerals don't give a shit and indeed they think it's for the greater Islamic good. Without a credible ABM shield in the 90%+ effective range, I cannot see the relative payoffs changing.

On the other hand my view is that any strikebacks on Pak military/civilian or terrorist assets, without giving the Pak generals an excuse for all out war, would achieve negative Payoff for them, as it would make them look impotent/incompetent/stupid from the perspective of the Pak population and Islamists generally. On the other hand liberal Pak politicians (I'm sure there must be some hiding somewhere) would archive positive Payoff by being in a position to finally take on the generals.

So what form can such strikebacks that don't escalate into a full blown nuclear war be? Well first of all, I think support for freedom movements and balkanisation by proxy is a definite tactic that seems to be working at the moment. Whether or not the current Modi government is actually supporting the Baloch freedom movements etc. the Pak generals seem impotant to doing anything about it. Hence the negative Payoff and their whinging, which is good news for us.

Additionaly any strikebacks at specific targets would also achieve the same objective as long as the Pak generals cannot have an excuse to escalate to full blown war. Indeed the strikebacks don't even have to be particularly accurate as long as ithey cause negative publicity in Pakistan and the Pak generals are impotant to do anything about it. Take out terrorist leaders, or camps by all means. But even if there is 'collateral damage' as long as it is mostly to infrastructure rather than people, we can always go oops, so sorry. Blow up a bridge, a ship whatever. Just says Oops, so sorry collataral damage. Keep firing off artillery, as Modi government is doing finally! Pakis will critcicse, but Pak generals cannot do anything about it and will look impotant.

The ultimate objective of Game Theory is to induce alternative behaviours in your opponent. During the Cold War, Game Theory was used to prevent all out war between the US and USSR, whilst still each side asserting their interests. Game Theory is said to have been used by Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis, to browbeat the Soviets into recalling their ships. The object of giving the Pak generals any negative Payoff, is to stop them from at a minimum supporting terrorist acts, and ideally, the Pak population eventually to take much of the power away from their generals and to start acting like a modern responsible state.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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I think we should look at it using Game Theory in terms of assessing relative Payoffs. First of all I think that we would all agree that the adversary, I.e the real opponent making the decisions is tha Pak military generals; Pak overall population and politicians are just pawns in the game, not the decision makers.

At the moment the Pak generals achieve positive Payoff by commiting proxy terrorist attacks in India. They get Payoff - the benefit of positive adulation from Islamic supremacists and the overall Pak population. Any criticism can be deflected by claims that it is third party actors commiting the terrorist atrocities and not the Pak military. Also the Pak military keeps getting funded as they keep pedalling the inherent Moslems persecuted by Hindhus myth and the need for an effective Pak military to counter Hindhu kufars.

Now the Payoffs from the Indian perspective. Up until the recent Modi government, perceived options were limited. terrorist acts in India were negative Payoffs, but the alternatives were considered even worse. CSD was obviously considered as a non starter because of the fears of escalation to nuclear conflict. Indian leaders have to consider the the death of millions on the Indian side, whereas Pak generals don't give a shit if millions die from their side. Basically Pak generals were by accident or design positively playing the 'Game'.

So what can be done to reduce the Payoffs from the Pak Generals perspective. First of all I still think CSD is a non starter, as the payoffs from a nuclear conflict remain the same, I.e miliions die from both sides, but Pak Gemerals don't give a shit and indeed they think it's for the greater Islamic good. Without a credible ABM shield in the 90%+ effective range, I cannot see the relative payoffs changing.

On the other hand my view is that any strikebacks on Pak military/civilian or terrorist assets, without giving the Pak generals an excuse for all out war, would achieve negative Payoff for them, as it would make them look impotent/incompetent/stupid from the perspective of the Pak population and Islamists generally. On the other hand liberal Pak politicians (I'm sure there must be some hiding somewhere) would archive positive Payoff by being in a position to finally take on the generals.

So what form can such strikebacks that don't escalate into a full blown nuclear war be? Well first of all, I think support for freedom movements and balkanisation by proxy is a definite tactic that seems to be working at the moment. Whether or not the current Modi government is actually supporting the Baloch freedom movements etc. the Pak generals seem impotant to doing anything about it. Hence the negative Payoff and their whinging, which is good news for us.

Additionaly any strikebacks at specific targets would also achieve the same objective as long as the Pak generals cannot have an excuse to escalate to full blown war. Indeed the strikebacks don't even have to be particularly accurate as long as ithey cause negative publicity in Pakistan and the Pak generals are impotant to do anything about it. Take out terrorist leaders, or camps by all means. But even if there is 'collateral damage' as long as it is mostly to infrastructure rather than people, we can always go oops, so sorry. Blow up a bridge, a ship whatever. Just says Oops, so sorry collataral damage. Keep firing off artillery, as Modi government is doing finally! Pakis will critcicse, but Pak generals cannot do anything about it and will look impotant.

The ultimate objective of Game Theory is to induce alternative behaviours in your opponent. During the Cold War, Game Theory was used to prevent all out war between the US and USSR, whilst still each side asserting their interests. Game Theory is said to have been used by Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis, to browbeat the Soviets into recalling their ships. The object of giving the Pak generals any negative Payoff, is to stop them from at a minimum supporting terrorist acts, and ideally, the Pak population eventually to take much of the power away from their generals and to start acting like a modern responsible state.

Excellent post. Given India is in much better position to absorb collateral damage both in terms of men and material, it should be the obvious choice.
 

tarunraju

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I think we should look at it using Game Theory in terms of assessing relative Payoffs. First of all I think that we would all agree that the adversary, I.e the real opponent making the decisions is tha Pak military generals; Pak overall population and politicians are just pawns in the game, not the decision makers.

At the moment the Pak generals achieve positive Payoff by commiting proxy terrorist attacks in India. They get Payoff - the benefit of positive adulation from Islamic supremacists and the overall Pak population. Any criticism can be deflected by claims that it is third party actors commiting the terrorist atrocities and not the Pak military. Also the Pak military keeps getting funded as they keep pedalling the inherent Moslems persecuted by Hindhus myth and the need for an effective Pak military to counter Hindhu kufars.

Now the Payoffs from the Indian perspective. Up until the recent Modi government, perceived options were limited. terrorist acts in India were negative Payoffs, but the alternatives were considered even worse. CSD was obviously considered as a non starter because of the fears of escalation to nuclear conflict. Indian leaders have to consider the the death of millions on the Indian side, whereas Pak generals don't give a shit if millions die from their side. Basically Pak generals were by accident or design positively playing the 'Game'.

So what can be done to reduce the Payoffs from the Pak Generals perspective. First of all I still think CSD is a non starter, as the payoffs from a nuclear conflict remain the same, I.e miliions die from both sides, but Pak Gemerals don't give a shit and indeed they think it's for the greater Islamic good. Without a credible ABM shield in the 90%+ effective range, I cannot see the relative payoffs changing.

On the other hand my view is that any strikebacks on Pak military/civilian or terrorist assets, without giving the Pak generals an excuse for all out war, would achieve negative Payoff for them, as it would make them look impotent/incompetent/stupid from the perspective of the Pak population and Islamists generally. On the other hand liberal Pak politicians (I'm sure there must be some hiding somewhere) would archive positive Payoff by being in a position to finally take on the generals.

So what form can such strikebacks that don't escalate into a full blown nuclear war be? Well first of all, I think support for freedom movements and balkanisation by proxy is a definite tactic that seems to be working at the moment. Whether or not the current Modi government is actually supporting the Baloch freedom movements etc. the Pak generals seem impotant to doing anything about it. Hence the negative Payoff and their whinging, which is good news for us.

Additionaly any strikebacks at specific targets would also achieve the same objective as long as the Pak generals cannot have an excuse to escalate to full blown war. Indeed the strikebacks don't even have to be particularly accurate as long as ithey cause negative publicity in Pakistan and the Pak generals are impotant to do anything about it. Take out terrorist leaders, or camps by all means. But even if there is 'collateral damage' as long as it is mostly to infrastructure rather than people, we can always go oops, so sorry. Blow up a bridge, a ship whatever. Just says Oops, so sorry collataral damage. Keep firing off artillery, as Modi government is doing finally! Pakis will critcicse, but Pak generals cannot do anything about it and will look impotant.

The ultimate objective of Game Theory is to induce alternative behaviours in your opponent. During the Cold War, Game Theory was used to prevent all out war between the US and USSR, whilst still each side asserting their interests. Game Theory is said to have been used by Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis, to browbeat the Soviets into recalling their ships. The object of giving the Pak generals any negative Payoff, is to stop them from at a minimum supporting terrorist acts, and ideally, the Pak population eventually to take much of the power away from their generals and to start acting like a modern responsible state.
I recently wrote this letter to some bean-counter in South Block. I sent it with a photocopy of my passport, so it doesn't spook them out. I didn't get a reply, but hopefully it made someone's lunch-table discussion/joke. I don't care. I also posted a more crude version of this in some other threads.

Here goes.

Sir,

India needs a "Samson Option" of its own.

You probably know that as a mythical Israeli military doctrine for when hordes of Arab armies are marching down its borders and it finds itself outnumbered, Israel carries out a spectacular final MRBM/ICBM launch, with dozens warheads seeking key targets in the region. This presents a scary prospect for any army wanting to march on Israel, and should be enough to deter even entities such as the IS.

India needs a Samson Option of its own, because we have an unfavourable nuclear stalemate with Pakistan, which Pakistan is clearly taking advantage of. Pakistan believes that because India has "more to lose" (more people, cities, infrastructure, and economic-achievement), India would exert a crippling amount of self-restraint when dealing militarily with Pakistan. Unfortunately, we do.

This equation allows Pakistanis (state/non-state actors) to violate the LoC and international border at whim; while India cannot. Since Pakistan went nuclear, we've never really managed to breach their borders. We've tried to sugarcoat our inability to do so by citing a "respect for international law," but we know that's bullshit. When they didn't have nukes, we breached their borders in 1971, and wiped the floor with them.

We need to escalate their cost of a nuclear first-strike, in an attempt to make it affordable for us to breach the LoC and IB. One way to do that, is to make it ambiguous yet apparent, that in a nuclear exchange with Pakistan, India would also hit targets outside Pakistan. A nuclear exchange with Pakistan will not be "limited," the Pakistani first strike will be quantitative, and thus it presents an "end of the world" scenario for India. We must hence plan our retaliatory second-strike to be equally end-of-the-world in nature, so that it weighs in heavily on the guy deciding to go nuclear in Rawalpindi.

The targets we pick must include religious sites, capitals, and key port-cities in the Sunni-Islamic world, oilfields, coalfields, and any other major world power we suspect to be behind our predicament. This doctrine must be whispered just enough in security circles, while we must maintain a strong denial. Our demographics will assist our denial.

Surely we are civilised people, and surely we won't make good on our perceived threat to nuke Mecca, but we must make good on our threat to "aim beyond Pakistan," if we're ever drawn into a nuclear exchange with them.

Having escalated the consequences for initiating a nuclear exchange with India, we can go ahead and breach the LoC or IB, to take out terrorist training camps at whim, in the event of another major attack like 26/11. We could also use our reshaped nuclear doctrine with Pakistan to destabilise implementation of CPEC.
 

LalTopi

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I recently wrote this letter to some bean-counter in South Block. I sent it with a photocopy of my passport, so it doesn't spook them out. I didn't get a reply, but hopefully it made someone's lunch-table discussion/joke. I don't care. I also posted a more crude version of this in some other threads.

Here goes.

Sir,

India needs a "Samson Option" of its own.

You probably know that as a mythical Israeli military doctrine for when hordes of Arab armies are marching down its borders and it finds itself outnumbered, Israel carries out a spectacular final MRBM/ICBM launch, with dozens warheads seeking key targets in the region. This presents a scary prospect for any army wanting to march on Israel, and should be enough to deter even entities such as the IS.

India needs a Samson Option of its own, because we have an unfavourable nuclear stalemate with Pakistan, which Pakistan is clearly taking advantage of. Pakistan believes that because India has "more to lose" (more people, cities, infrastructure, and economic-achievement), India would exert a crippling amount of self-restraint when dealing militarily with Pakistan. Unfortunately, we do.

This equation allows Pakistanis (state/non-state actors) to violate the LoC and international border at whim; while India cannot. Since Pakistan went nuclear, we've never really managed to breach their borders. We've tried to sugarcoat our inability to do so by citing a "respect for international law," but we know that's bullshit. When they didn't have nukes, we breached their borders in 1971, and wiped the floor with them.

We need to escalate their cost of a nuclear first-strike, in an attempt to make it affordable for us to breach the LoC and IB. One way to do that, is to make it ambiguous yet apparent, that in a nuclear exchange with Pakistan, India would also hit targets outside Pakistan. A nuclear exchange with Pakistan will not be "limited," the Pakistani first strike will be quantitative, and thus it presents an "end of the world" scenario for India. We must hence plan our retaliatory second-strike to be equally end-of-the-world in nature, so that it weighs in heavily on the guy deciding to go nuclear in Rawalpindi.

The targets we pick must include religious sites, capitals, and key port-cities in the Sunni-Islamic world, oilfields, coalfields, and any other major world power we suspect to be behind our predicament. This doctrine must be whispered just enough in security circles, while we must maintain a strong denial. Our demographics will assist our denial.

Surely we are civilised people, and surely we won't make good on our perceived threat to nuke Mecca, but we must make good on our threat to "aim beyond Pakistan," if we're ever drawn into a nuclear exchange with them.

Having escalated the consequences for initiating a nuclear exchange with India, we can go ahead and breach the LoC or IB, to take out terrorist training camps at whim, in the event of another major attack like 26/11. We could also use our reshaped nuclear doctrine with Pakistan to destabilise implementation of CPEC.
Agreed. it's all about credible bluff.
 

Screambowl

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I recently wrote this letter to some bean-counter in South Block. I sent it with a photocopy of my passport, so it doesn't spook them out. I didn't get a reply, but hopefully it made someone's lunch-table discussion/joke. I don't care. I also posted a more crude version of this in some other threads.

Here goes.

Sir,

India needs a "Samson Option" of its own.

You probably know that as a mythical Israeli military doctrine for when hordes of Arab armies are marching down its borders and it finds itself outnumbered, Israel carries out a spectacular final MRBM/ICBM launch, with dozens warheads seeking key targets in the region. This presents a scary prospect for any army wanting to march on Israel, and should be enough to deter even entities such as the IS.

India needs a Samson Option of its own, because we have an unfavourable nuclear stalemate with Pakistan, which Pakistan is clearly taking advantage of. Pakistan believes that because India has "more to lose" (more people, cities, infrastructure, and economic-achievement), India would exert a crippling amount of self-restraint when dealing militarily with Pakistan. Unfortunately, we do.

This equation allows Pakistanis (state/non-state actors) to violate the LoC and international border at whim; while India cannot. Since Pakistan went nuclear, we've never really managed to breach their borders. We've tried to sugarcoat our inability to do so by citing a "respect for international law," but we know that's bullshit. When they didn't have nukes, we breached their borders in 1971, and wiped the floor with them.

We need to escalate their cost of a nuclear first-strike, in an attempt to make it affordable for us to breach the LoC and IB. One way to do that, is to make it ambiguous yet apparent, that in a nuclear exchange with Pakistan, India would also hit targets outside Pakistan. A nuclear exchange with Pakistan will not be "limited," the Pakistani first strike will be quantitative, and thus it presents an "end of the world" scenario for India. We must hence plan our retaliatory second-strike to be equally end-of-the-world in nature, so that it weighs in heavily on the guy deciding to go nuclear in Rawalpindi.
.
Hitting the Islamic world, beyond Pakistan ( KSA, UAE), if Pakistan tries to threat us with N- weapons. Indeed brilliant. But must be kept as a confidential policy.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Hitting the Islamic world, beyond Pakistan ( KSA, UAE), if Pakistan tries to threat us with N- weapons. Indeed brilliant. But must be kept as a confidential policy.
It loses its value if kept confidential. That should be out in the open for others to stop Pak from nuclearizing the conflict.
 

Nicky G

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I recently wrote this letter to some bean-counter in South Block. I sent it with a photocopy of my passport, so it doesn't spook them out. I didn't get a reply, but hopefully it made someone's lunch-table discussion/joke. I don't care. I also posted a more crude version of this in some other threads.

Here goes.

Sir,

India needs a "Samson Option" of its own.

You probably know that as a mythical Israeli military doctrine for when hordes of Arab armies are marching down its borders and it finds itself outnumbered, Israel carries out a spectacular final MRBM/ICBM launch, with dozens warheads seeking key targets in the region. This presents a scary prospect for any army wanting to march on Israel, and should be enough to deter even entities such as the IS.

India needs a Samson Option of its own, because we have an unfavourable nuclear stalemate with Pakistan, which Pakistan is clearly taking advantage of. Pakistan believes that because India has "more to lose" (more people, cities, infrastructure, and economic-achievement), India would exert a crippling amount of self-restraint when dealing militarily with Pakistan. Unfortunately, we do.

This equation allows Pakistanis (state/non-state actors) to violate the LoC and international border at whim; while India cannot. Since Pakistan went nuclear, we've never really managed to breach their borders. We've tried to sugarcoat our inability to do so by citing a "respect for international law," but we know that's bullshit. When they didn't have nukes, we breached their borders in 1971, and wiped the floor with them.

We need to escalate their cost of a nuclear first-strike, in an attempt to make it affordable for us to breach the LoC and IB. One way to do that, is to make it ambiguous yet apparent, that in a nuclear exchange with Pakistan, India would also hit targets outside Pakistan. A nuclear exchange with Pakistan will not be "limited," the Pakistani first strike will be quantitative, and thus it presents an "end of the world" scenario for India. We must hence plan our retaliatory second-strike to be equally end-of-the-world in nature, so that it weighs in heavily on the guy deciding to go nuclear in Rawalpindi.

The targets we pick must include religious sites, capitals, and key port-cities in the Sunni-Islamic world, oilfields, coalfields, and any other major world power we suspect to be behind our predicament. This doctrine must be whispered just enough in security circles, while we must maintain a strong denial. Our demographics will assist our denial.

Surely we are civilised people, and surely we won't make good on our perceived threat to nuke Mecca, but we must make good on our threat to "aim beyond Pakistan," if we're ever drawn into a nuclear exchange with them.

Having escalated the consequences for initiating a nuclear exchange with India, we can go ahead and breach the LoC or IB, to take out terrorist training camps at whim, in the event of another major attack like 26/11. We could also use our reshaped nuclear doctrine with Pakistan to destabilise implementation of CPEC.
I believe you have posted this earlier - not the letter, but the gist of it before while discussing Paki nukes.

My simple question, why do you believe the Paki generals care about anything beyond their self and country? if they are retarded enough to commit suicide by launching weapons that would ensure their end in retaliation, why would they care for anything beyond?

If the Pakis are crazy enough to launch nukes, they cannot be considered rational, thus we must look at others who can forces them to not use their nukes, at present all I see is China and maybe US to an extent in this context.

Our Samson option if you really want it to be completely credible should be taking out major world capitals that have directly or indirectly helped the Pakis. If we are going down, we should damn well take the world down with us - but that capability might be a while away, for now, we should just make it clear to the Chinese that if they don't control their lil bitch, we'll take them down with us or screw them up well beyond repair, post which the Japanese can march right back in. Nothing matches the mental trauma that the Chinese feel than the specter of a Japanese invasion.

Meanwhile, work to develop 10K+ MIRV ICMB and SLBM that can target anywhere in the world.

All that aside, there is no real solution to the crazy Pakis having nukes save balkanization of Pak and subsequent confiscation of the nukes.
 
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LalTopi

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I believe you have posted this earlier - not the letter, but the gist of it before while discussing Paki nukes.

My simple question, why do you believe the Paki generals care about anything beyond their self and country? if they are retarded enough to commit suicide by launching weapons that would ensure their end in retaliation, why would they care for anything beyond?

If the Pakis are crazy enough to launch nukes, they cannot be considered rational, thus we must look at others who can forces them to not use their nukes, at present all I see is China and maybe US to an extent in this context.

Our Samson option if you really want it to be completely credible should be taking out major world capitals that have directly or indirectly helped the Pakis. If we are going down, we should damn well take the world down with us - but that capability might be a while away, for now, we should just make it clear to the Chinese that if they don't control their lil bitch, we'll take them down with us or screw them up well beyond repair, post which the Japanese can march right back in. Nothing matches the mental trauma that the Chinese feel than the specter of a Japanese invasion.

Meanwhile, work to develop 10K+ MIRV ICMB and SLBM that can target anywhere in the world.

All that aside, there is no real solution to the crazy Pakis having nukes save balkanization of Pak and subsequent confiscation of the nukes.
Two things:

It is a mistake to think that Paki generals are not rational. They are rational. Hitler, except maybe in the latter years of WW2 was rational. He was evil, but he was rational. Likewise Pak generals from our perspective are evil, but they are rational. it's just that they have different payoffs from us. Their payoffs are credibility and glory to the Islamic 'Ummah'. That is what they crave. They want recognition and glory in being at the forefront of the fight against the idol worshippers. If we understand this, then it means that we can predict their behaviour in certain scenarios, and hence from the point of view of Game theory, they are rational. Our challenge is to manage their payoffs without achieving negative payoffs for ourselves.

Second, any posturing, be it real or bluff has to be credible, I.e believable. Attacking and destroying the world is not a believable position that we can take. Even nuclear attacking China, just because of Pakistan, maybe stretching credibility. We can as Tarun says adopt the possibility of being seen as a bit crazy Hindhus, like crazy isrealis and threatening Armageddon on the Ummah, for the actions of the Pak generals. I am not sure I agree with this approach. But I do think it is a credible bluff. It will have the effect of scaring the Ummah, and hence leading to criticism of the Pak generals from those that they most wish to impress.

Footnote added later. 'Rational' is a Game theory concept. you cannot use game theory against an opponent that is completely irrational, without motivations and hence entirely unpredicatibale. Paki generals have set motivations, I.e Payoffs, and so are predictable.
 
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Srinivas_K

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The terror/militant training is offered through out Pakistan, they have 21 days introductory classes etc..etc..., You can see the ads on the walls in various cities as well.



^^ rather than surgical strike, we should plan for an assault to take back PoK and get our access back to Central Asia through GB. If we can get our access back to CA through GB, our one handicap will be gone and Pakis can be surrounded. Also, except the mountainous terrain of J&K, rest of our border with Pakis is fenced and have a population loyal to India. So, if we can take back PoK, if and when we have built up our military strength for that with a firm GoI at center, we would not only have stopped infiltration, we would have blocked a place for training of terrorists too. The terrorist camps are in PoK mostly, because it is far away from main Pakistani population centers. The new camps they will either have to open in their heartland Punjab or in relatively hostile Sindh or Balochistan, given FATA will be occupied completely by Talibans when Indian military op has forced Pakis to move troops from FATA to eastern border.
 

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