Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E

badguy2000

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well, Russia is struggling hard to keep its aerocraft industry ahead of CHina's .....
 

pmaitra

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well, Russia is struggling hard to keep its aerocraft industry ahead of CHina's .....
Russia actually has an aircraft industry. PRC has a copying and cloning industry. This is a no contest - Russia will always be ahead of PRC, as long as the current circumstances remain.
 

badguy2000

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Russia actually has an aircraft industry. PRC has a copying and cloning industry. This is a no contest - Russia will always be ahead of PRC, as long as the current circumstances remain.
well, let's wait and see..... J20 has much more chance to enter into servce earlier than T50
 

pmaitra

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well, let's wait and see..... J20 has much more chance to enter into servce earlier than T50
You missed my point.

Tell me, does PRC have a research institute like TsAGI? Of course not! All PRC is good with is copying and cloning.

There goes my point - you copy a Russian bird, if successful, the credit still goes to Russia, because they designed it first; if not successful, the blame goes to PRC, because they didn't copy it well enough.

Come up with something of your own.
 

asianobserve

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The flipside of this news, it means China will now develop their own Su35 version, of course with some help from you know who... Sssshhhh....
 

badguy2000

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The flipside of this news, it means China will now develop their own Su35 version, of course with some help from you know who... Sssshhhh....
well, J11B already can match SU35,except engine......so ,China needn't develope another new bird.based on su27.


it is widely reported that SAC is devoloping another 5G bird,while CAC is developing J20....
 

asianobserve

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well, J11B already can match SU35,except engine......so ,China needn't develope another new bird.based on su27.


it is widely reported that SAC is devoloping another 5G bird,while CAC is developing J20....

My simple mind is perplexed by the Chinese request for Russian Su35s: If Chinese firms can already develop similar and 5gen jets why spend on soon to be rendered obsolete (or at least irrelevant) Russian Su35 jets?

If you said that the J11B only has an inferior engine (it means all the rest of the systems are already at least on par with Su35's) why just buy the right to build those engines from Russia? Why buy the whole bird?


ps. Pardon my simple mind, it operates, well, in simple ways...
 
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pmaitra

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My simple mind is perplexed by the Chinese request for Russian Su35s: If Chinese forms can already develop similar and 5gen jets why spend on soon to be rendered obsolete (or at least irrelevant) Russian Su35 jets?
:lol: Very good question.

I am afraid, if PRC really was capable, they would not be negotiating to get a 'few' samples of the Sukhoi-35.

One word - shameless!
 

J20!

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I think we have a related http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/china/34925-russian-declared-sale-su35-china-ceased.html



Precisely. PRC needs just enough to start copying, while Russia wants the price for the efforts of its enginners.
Ugh! Why do members here always listen to Russian daydreams\news? One minute its "Russia refuses to sell arrestor gear to China" Then it's "Russia close to selling Su35 to China" Then its "Russia declared that its sale of Su35 to China ceased"

We told you all the report was untrue from the very beginning.

The Jamestown Foundation: Beijing Denies Russian Rumors of Su-35 Purchase; Evaluating China's Intelligence Penetration of Taiwan

Beijing Denies Russian Rumors of Su-35 Purchase; Evaluating China's Intelligence Penetration of Taiwan

Publication: China Brief Volume: 12 Issue: 6March 15, 2012 03:57 PM Age: 33 days
By: Peter Mattis

Is the Su-35 Bound for China?
BEIJING DENIES RUSSIAN RUMORS OF SU-35 FIGHTER PURCHASE

Last week, Russian media reported Moscow was close to finalizing a $4 billion deal for 48 Su-35s with Beijing. The reported sticking point was that the Russian side wanted greater assurances that Chinese engineers would not reverse engineer the Su-35 and put it into domestic production like the Su-27, which is the model for China's J-11 (Taipei Times, March 9; Kommersant, March 8; RIA Novosti, March 6). The report by the Russian newspaper Kommersant has generated a flurry of Western commentary; however, there is a striking difference between the Chinese-language and foreign-language coverage of this issue. China's Ministry of National Defense (MND) has denied emphatically that such a deal is in the works, stating the press coverage is "not in accord with the facts" and the Su-35 "does not fit China's national situation" (Caixun, March 12; Global Times, March 12). This discrepancy undermines Western analysis of the strategic implications of this announcement and suggests China's defense aerospace industry is making sufficient progress to meet its military needs.

In a widely reprinted interview, Major General Wei Gang, a senior officer in the People's Liberation Army Air Force's (PLAAF) Armaments Department from 2004 to 2011, spoke about the PLAAF's success in using indigenous innovation (zizhu chuangxin) to meet equipment needs. General Wei touted the J-10 as such an example, while conspicuously avoiding the J-11. Perhaps most importantly, Wei commented that the copying of foreign equipment does not get the PLAAF what it needs and "we must develop forces that meet the needs of China's developmental circumstances" (China Central Broadcasting, March 9; People's Net, March 9).

This interview, in combination with MND's denial, suggests the Kommersant report may be simply rumor—or, alternatively, Beijing is trying to save face by denying the Su-35 deal was ever serious, knowing China's aerospace industry would not honor the Russian request not to reverse engineer their technology. Giving credence to Beijing's story over the Russian version suggests Chinese aerospace firms finally may be producing jet engines of the quality needed for advanced fighters—an area where they long have struggled [1]. At a minimum, the Chinese story, if true, would indicate the PLAAF does have its development well in hand and does not have a projected fighter shortfall like the United States and Taiwan.
 
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pmaitra

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^^

Ok, cool. We have two conflicting news. Let us just wait and see.
 

pankaj nema

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Su 35 carries IRBIS radar which is being eyed by China
And also AL 41 engine

China's EGO is too huge

It cannot admit that J10 J 11 J 20 are just nothing compared to SU 30 and SU 35

China can also never admit that it COPIED in the past

So Russia will impose very tough copyright protection clauses which will be insulting for the Chinese

Hence this deal will not happen
 

badguy2000

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Su 35 carries IRBIS radar which is being eyed by China
And also AL 41 engine

China's EGO is too huge

It cannot admit that J10 J 11 J 20 are just nothing compared to SU 30 and SU 35

China can also never admit that it COPIED in the past

So Russia will impose very tough copyright protection clauses which will be insulting for the Chinese

Hence this deal will not happen
IRBIS radar is a $hit!
few toys made by Russia, except engine,are attractive to Chinese.
 

nimo_cn

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I think we have a related http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/china/34925-russian-declared-sale-su35-china-ceased.html



Precisely. PRC needs just enough to start copying, while Russia wants the price for the efforts of its enginners.


Su 35 carries IRBIS radar which is being eyed by China
And also AL 41 engine

China's EGO is too huge

It cannot admit that J10 J 11 J 20 are just nothing compared to SU 30 and SU 35

China can also never admit that it COPIED in the past

So Russia will impose very tough copyright protection clauses which will be insulting for the Chinese

Hence this deal will not happen
I have forecasted that potential IP violation will be quoted to save the face of Russians.

This is my earlier post on the first page.
It is sad that with so many senior professionals here at this forum, no one finds out Russians might be bluffing.

Do you know what is the most tricky part of this article?
According to the paper, the only obstacle remaining is Moscow's demand that Beijing should guarantee the protection of copyrights on the production of Su-35s without proper licensing.

If you were smart enough, you could have sensed that Russians are making up stories. This is a hint that Russian might be lying.

There is no indication suggesting PLA is interested in Su35, Everyone knows it is not a potent aircraft, Indians know it ( you knocked it out of the contest at the very beginning), so do we. But Russians have to sell it for cash, obviously they are in desperate need of it. With it being rejected by India, Su35 is having a very unpredictable future in the international market. So the faiths of potential customers need to salvaged, that is why this mysterious deal is timely disclosed by Russians. China is always a good case for promotion, for both good stuff and bad stuff.

However a bluff is always a bluff, what if China never imports Su35 or publicly dismisses the existence of that deal? That would be a disaster for the crediblity of Russian weapon dealers, isn't it? But it seems they have everything prepared, the potential IP violation mentioned in this article is set up for that crisis. Soon they will claim that the deal isn't approved because Russia and China faill to reach an agreement over the IP issue. Simply smart!

Well, I am just joking, whoever disagrees with this joke can just ignore it.

A much better and easier explanation could simply be China never ordered Su35 and Russians are lying.
 
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badguy2000

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My simple mind is perplexed by the Chinese request for Russian Su35s: If Chinese firms can already develop similar and 5gen jets why spend on soon to be rendered obsolete (or at least irrelevant) Russian Su35 jets?

If you said that the J11B only has an inferior engine (it means all the rest of the systems are already at least on par with Su35's) why just buy the right to build those engines from Russia? Why buy the whole bird?


ps. Pardon my simple mind, it operates, well, in simple ways...
1. to one's interest,it is always Russia's blah that CHinese are buying X...then it was denied by chinese,then confirmed by russian.....

the "X" once is SU33,then TU22,then SU35...etc.....

Obviously, from the start, it is Russia stunt to market its weapons to some potential clients such as India.......

2. Russia's engine is one of few toys that is attractive to CHinese.....obviouly ,Russia doesn't want to sell engine alone.....Russia want a sale of package,tieing engines with the bird.
 

CherrywoodHunter

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lol funny i know chinese quite well. don't pretend use 引进的某型先进战机 as su27, i read the whole article. i was born in china, live my youth there. most my relative are in china. my wife is chinese. is this your argument when someone has different opinion than you. even people on sinodefence forum don't say su27/30 is pathetic compare to j10, those guys have much more knowledge than chinese fanboys, and they are chinese too.. i think your ultra nationalism had the better of you.

j10 might be better than su27/30, but its not to the point of pathetic compare to j10.
"don't pretend use 引进的某型先进战机 as su27"

can you name a 引进的某型先进战机 other than su27?
 

pankaj nema

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IRBIS radar is a $hit!
few toys made by Russia, except engine,are attractive to Chinese.
SOUR GRAPES Huh !!

Your stupid KLj 7 and KLJ 10 are radars are pure shit

That is why your beggar friend Pakistan is waiting for J 10 B and was dying for FRENCH avionics

But France refused
 

Armand2REP

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RIA Novosti said:
Negotiations on the sale of Russian advanced Su-35 Flanker-E fighters to China have been put on hold over Beijing's refusal to buy a large consignment, Russian state-controlled arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Tuesday.

"We have been promoting the Su-35 fighter on the Chinese market," Rosoboronexport deputy chief Viktor Komardin said.
"However, China only wants to buy a limited number [of aircraft] whereas we want [to sell] a large consignment to make [the deal] economically viable."

Russia-China Su-35 Fighter Talks Frozen | World | RIA Novosti
Looks like Russia doesn't want to sell for a pittance deal when China attempts to xerox superior technology.
 

Kunal Biswas

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well, J11B already can match SU35,except engine......so ,China needn't develope another new bird.based on su27.
No, it falls back in radar as well as irst so does ecm suit..

well, let's wait and see..... J20 has much more chance to enter into servce earlier than T50
We will see how good it is, In radar cross section as well as avionics and engines..

well, Russia is struggling hard to keep its aerocraft industry ahead of CHina's .....
Some points:

1. How many jets till date China exported

2. How many indigenous deign came in China




China is today where Russian was in early 90s
 

Ray

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China would have replicated it and so it makes no difference!
 

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