Sukhoi Su 30MKI

AnantS

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
5,847
Likes
15,672
Country flag
Works out to 60 million USD per FA . More expensive than the Dassault Mirage 2000 upgrades & this is supposedly desi stuff or are we paying a hefty amount as royalty to the Ruskies.
Both.
 

IndianHawk

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
9,058
Likes
37,674
Country flag
Works out to 60 million USD per FA . More expensive than the Dassault Mirage 2000 upgrades & this is supposedly desi stuff or are we paying a hefty amount as royalty to the Ruskies.
Mirage upgrade didn't involve aesa radar .

This upgrade will provide su30 with an aesa much more powerful than even rafale and whole new ew suite also with aesa elements. Plus there is life extension as well upto 20 more years means most of the airframe will also be renewed? With lots of new panels perhaps the weight of jet could be optimised a bit !


We'll get to know more as things move forward.
 

Azaad

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2022
Messages
8,149
Likes
30,293
Country flag
Mirage upgrade didn't involve aesa radar .

This upgrade will provide su30 with an aesa much more powerful than even rafale and whole new ew suite also with aesa elements. Plus there is life extension as well upto 20 more years means most of the airframe will also be renewed? With lots of new panels perhaps the weight of jet could be optimised a bit !


We'll get to know more as things move forward.
Add new FBW to it & possible extensive usage of composites plus RAM / RAS coatings supposedly developed for AMCA with necessary adaptations
If everything that I read about the Super Sukhoi upgrades are true we're looking at the best Flanker in service , even better than the J-16 or Su-35 or even the Su-30 M2.
 

IndianHawk

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
9,058
Likes
37,674
Country flag
Cost will/might reduce for next batch of aircrafts upgrads. there is also scope of export to su30 operators.

Btw 60k crores for how many aircrafts, I heard 84.
It is around 710 crore per aircraft. which is 86 million dollars per FA. the last figure was 93 million dollars look like they did some bargaining.
af upgrading 51 systems..

I think more than half of 51 upgrade are not worth it.
It doesn't seem value for money at all.
Most value for money, big bang for bucks. mentioned below.

GaN radar, mission computer , dual band-IRST, DR118 EW, DC-MAWS, GaN based ASPJ, DFCC, digital glass cockpit, towed X guard decoy, RAM coating possibly, heads up display ,software defined radios,fly by wire with quadruple redundancy to accommodate brahmos(only some should have been upgraded as it's necessity is limited upto Brahmos only)
Chemring Countermeasures featuring Chaff Cartridges unlike the previous Flares utilized by Indian Flankers,,
IRST will be based on quantum dot infrared photodetector which is significantly sensitive than Quantum well infrared photodetector
May be the DC-maws be based on it..
Improved Air-frame life with total 6000 flying hrs
Chassis wheels braking system,
Modern digital weapons control system.


And obviously weapon systems upgrade

Apart from this 17 upgrades I don't think wasting money on rest of 34 systems will be worth it.
For little minute gains we are wasting huge money.this isnt value for money..
Super Sukhoi is too expensive.
It could have been budget friendly with keeping necessity at top priority like those 17 systems upgrade.. investing this huge amount on su30.
which is gonna be irrelevant after 25-30 years is not a good choice either..
Most money is going into these avionics updates . Iirc 30-35% cost of a modern jet like rafale goes into avionics.
Now considering all these new avionics upgrades to mki are even more advanced than what is fielded on rafale cost easily adds up.

It will see integration of new weapons too. Rampage is a given since it's being integrated with mig29k.
Rudram series ground attack versions etc. so it's not limited to brahmos.
 

IndianHawk

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
9,058
Likes
37,674
Country flag
I always had this in mind ,
as newer subsystems of aircraft have became smaller, efficient, smaller cooling systems are needed.
Aircraft with lighter sub-systems can beade lighter.
or will this effect flight characteristic and ballast weight will be added to compensate.

the bars radar is very heavy because of its weight they had to use canards. it weights 650kg. It definetely requires bigger cooling system.. it's computer systems electronics are gonna be bigger as it's is from 90s &2000s. Same is the case with IRST..
So will it cause a problem if we reduce weight. will it requires some ballast to balance out??
I think whatever weight they end up loosing they will use that to strengthen its pylons to increase its payload capacity.
Otherwise we could simply see some improvement in thrust to weight ratio. But they won't be changing over-all weight much because that would affect control laws .
 

Satish Sharma

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2023
Messages
1,963
Likes
5,428
Country flag
''is derivative'' It’s not, they are two seperate projects that were conducted at same time with usage of same technologies and R-27A being cancelled due to money and focusing only on R-77

9B-1348E is for RVV-AE, R-77 that has never gone in mass production used 9B-1348

Also,
Just 9B-1103, without “K”
Do we have the R27T/ET IR missile , have we brought longer range variant of this missile of 120km. Or we got 40km &80km ones.

Do we have R27EA active radar homing seeker missile..

Do we have R27P/EP anti radiation missile on our su30s...
 
Last edited:

NutCracker

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
5,598
Likes
29,638
Country flag


First time I'm hearing of this. How true is this? @SwordOfDarkness
Just like a good low light photography camera has bigger sensors to grab as many photons possible. It's called F- number.

A bigger aperture / (each TRM dimension) in radar means su30 can capture weaker returning signals. Thanks to large nose SU30 can carry bigger TRM(big aperture) in higher number(resolution).
 

Azaad

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2022
Messages
8,149
Likes
30,293
Country flag
Just like a good low light photography camera has bigger sensors to grab as many photons possible. It's called F- number.

A bigger aperture / (each TRM dimension) in radar means su30 can capture weaker returning signals. Thanks to large nose SU30 can carry bigger TRM(big aperture) in higher number(resolution).
A couple of points. These LO or "Stealth " Aircraft could then also be visible to AWACS. The jury is out on that one. I've seen reports claiming both - it's not visible & it's visible with the caveat that the visibility is < ~ 20 kms .

Then there's the issue of tracking. X band radar FCRs have had difficulties developing strong signals at a distance from the target when it comes to tracking LO aircraft
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,224
Likes
26,036
Country flag
A couple of points. These LO or "Stealth " Aircraft could then also be visible to AWACS. The jury is out on that one. I've seen reports claiming both - it's not visible & it's visible with the caveat that the visibility is < ~ 20 kms .

Then there's the issue of tracking. X band radar FCRs have had difficulties developing strong signals at a distance from the target when it comes to tracking LO aircraft
AWACS are slow... Maybe we should bring out our Foxbats with some AESA modifications.
n7nlklk6l4461.jpg
 

SwordOfDarkness

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2021
Messages
2,761
Likes
11,773
Country flag


First time I'm hearing of this. How true is this? @SwordOfDarkness
Not sure, but I don't think it can track stealth targets with x band radar alone. X band is basically dependant on reflection for detection, and for fighter size targets, it won't work on stealth shaped targets with RAM coating.

Although I think the radome is big enough to allow dual band radar, with low band emitters to try and get a general enough location for stealth targets (especially for aircraft like j20, those canards can be quite susceptible to radar resonance ) and then use something like AstraIR to get terminal guidance.
Just like a good low light photography camera has bigger sensors to grab as many photons possible. It's called F- number.

A bigger aperture / (each TRM dimension) in radar means su30 can capture weaker returning signals. Thanks to large nose SU30 can carry bigger TRM(big aperture) in higher number(resolution).
Not exactly, trm size will correspond more to wavelength than aperture. The reason aperture is cited as being important is because a larger aperture allows you to capture a larger number of angles of reflected waves. Not sure how useful it will be in this case, with negligible difference and with the apparant aperture being quite large due to the speed of aircraft.

A couple of points. These LO or "Stealth " Aircraft could then also be visible to AWACS. The jury is out on that one. I've seen reports claiming both - it's not visible & it's visible with the caveat that the visibility is < ~ 20 kms .

Then there's the issue of tracking. X band radar FCRs have had difficulties developing strong signals at a distance from the target when it comes to tracking LO aircraft
Quite possible, but an enemy plane within 60-70 km of an awacs is a virtual death sentence for it.

Aewacs could benefit a lot from long wavelength radars, especially with the radar size being less of an issue than fighters.

Although, take all this with a grain of salt as I also am not exactly an expert on radars and am still learning much every time I look up the topic.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top